Midnight's Knights?

I agree with you, Farzana

Hello Jawahara:
Good to see you after a long time(or was it that you were here and I had disappeared?).

Re. your points, if authors must stand apart, then ought their seeking of roots not be judged by yardsticks different from those adopted for others? I accept that people`s realities will be different from the one they might recreate creatively, but these two come across as though they believe their reality is the fact of societies they have long left behind.

It is entirely possible, though, that as a resident Indian my response will be at variance from those who have been `uprooted`.

Thanks for writing in...

ana:
Let us huddle together and muddle through?? (Arre, plz see my painting in my writer`s profile and give your expert comments...it is a self-portrait and suitably muddled :)

Farzana

Farzoo...
finalllly, i read this, and some of the responses to it as well, and I`m still muddling through thoughts on this, so will continue muddling in my head until I can write something that makes sense. until then....
lve. a.

Hi Farzana:

This is a rather dangerous article to comment on. I can see where you are coming from but I heartily disagree.

While authors are certainly part of the world and like other humans have the responsibilities that we all shoulder, I think their writing and their actions do stand apart from one another. So, I can like Rushdie`s writing while totally disliking him as a person, for what he does and says.

Secondly, people, authors included change all the time. Taking things said at different times in a person`s life and expecting them all to line up perfectly is unfair and fruitless. More than that, a person can feel like an exile from one`s land while still feeling its pull and writing about and of those people and places.

What people do in their personal space and the worlds and realities they create in their writing are two (or more) distinct places.

Bottomline is, people feel what they feel. And sometimes these are baffling, contradictory, totally opposed to each other feelings that battle for space within us. Sometimes one reality is voiced, sometimes another.

I am sure I will think of other things and will post them here. Thanks for this article Farzana and Chowk.

````The center of gravity of Mauryan Empire was Magadha, the modern day Bihar. Patliputra was the capital city of the Mauryan Empire. ````(Pankaj)

Pankaj is right -- if I remember corectly -- Taxilla a Buddhist center -- was under the control of Punjab`s Greeks -- Ashoka`s father Chandregupta grew up in Greek courts in Punjab -- and Greeks helped him to capture Magdha and Patliputra -- the current Patna -- a twenty five hundred years old city -- and start the Maurya dynasty --

sameer#136

``Taxila and surrounding Pothowar region was the center of gravity of Maurya dynasty. Almost certainly Ashoka and Chandragupt visited areas surrounding Taxila many times in their lifeimes``

While the second statement may be true the first one saying that Taxila was the center of gravity of Mauryan Empire is not correct according to my knowledge of history. The center of gravity of Mauryan Empire was Magadha, the modern day Bihar. Patliputra was the capital city of the Mauryan Empire. Also if you study the distribution of sites from where Ashokan rock edicts and stupas were excavated, they are far more highly concentrated in the Bihar than any other part of the Indian subcontinent. Actually the name Bihar itself comes from ``Vihar`` or the Buddhist monastic sites.

Ref Yasser Latif Hamdani #141

[Yet this is an old argument, and I don`t wish to revisit it ... especially not on boards where half wits without life love to pick up fights with seemingly over emotional formerly hot blooded Pakistanis like myself.. the Sadnas, harimaus and p-mishras (and their Pakistani alter egos) of these boards, with their narrowminded jingoistic visions of history and culture are far more destructive to the peace in South Asia than all the nuclear weapons.]

Yasser, dear boy, I am touched by the fact that you still remember me!

[I am surprised however that after dedicating a special to Jinnah`s life in a leading newspaper, Khushwant Singh wasn`t declared an activist of Khalistan by the likes of P-Mishra, Harimau, Sadna etc...]

Twice in the same post!! To what do I owe this honor?

ignorance if it is a bliss -- it is here -- in developing the country’sl curriculum -- based on religion and ethnic preferences -- that`s what is happening in the subcontinent --

hiding the pagan past -- mythologizing the unknown past – Saffronizing and Greening of the history -- is what makes the present FILTH tenable and respectful --

Myth is India`s history -- Pakistan’s myth starts from 1947 as history --

Rushdi in a moment of mid life -- temporary insanity -- simply articulated the pagan part of present Islam -- in not so simple a language -- and got thrashed for it

the Pagan Past of Immaculately Monotheistic Islam -- shines EVEN today --

in glaring examples of Haj -- twafe kaabaa -- stoning of a stone tower called Satan -- shaving the heads -- being almost naked in public -- draped in only a white bed sheet -- Mohammad worship -- etc etc..

the anachronistic ritual of Hajj has been a paganistic thorn in the sides of educated knowledgeable Muslims -- despite being one of the pillars -- and every Muslim`s dream of a life time --

Islam minus Hajj is more rational than Islam with Hajj..

Rushdie was foolish enough to throw some LIGHT on THESE anomalies -- a little too brightly -- and was duly burnt by it --

because -- in MY religion`s -- Gathering of Blind Followers -- only an utterly stupid man will bring along an `unnecessary` -- Lantern...

PS: Dear Dost Mittar

When you make an analogy of cattle leaving the barn... You forget that even today Bangladesh has a 15% Hindu population and Pakistan has close to 4% Minorities officially ... Your Analogy just doesn`t hold...

With apologies to the author:

Attention Dost Mittar,

This is in response to your response to my article `Islamic Utopia`. I thank you as always for your encouragement and your wishes. Whereas I disagree with you on many points given my own study of History, I respect your point of view and appreciate it.

I vehemently disagree with you on the point of dispute because there is just enough evidence to suggest otherwise including the very important posts for Non-Muslims (Like Law Ministry, Judiciary etc) in Jinnah led administration. Furthermore the quotas for religious minorities and the release of Jinnah papers makes it abundantly clear that the exchange of populations was not inclusive of the original vision. This is not to deny the attendant anomaly of a separatist muslim movement, but contradictions or apparent contradictions are second nature to History... how else could the mother of all democracies, Great Britain, still be a Monarchy? Yet this is an old argument, and I don`t wish to revisit it ... especially not on boards where half wits without life love to pick up fights with seemingly over emotional formerly hot blooded Pakistanis like myself.. the Sadnas, harimaus and p-mishras (and their Pakistani alter egos) of these boards, with their narrowminded jingoistic visions of history and culture are far more destructive to the peace in South Asia than all the nuclear weapons.

What I want to point out is purely academic ... you attributed a statement to Khushwant Singh which in my estimate is inaccurate... Khushwant Singh, after informing the reader of Mr.Jinnah`s personal request to KS to take up a space on Lahore High Court Bench, suggests quite the opposite of what you attribute to him. Please read the autobiography again. Ofcourse you are right that Mr.Singh holds Mr.Jinnah in great esteem, as all people who read his life with an open mind putting to rest the snakes of bias and hostility to rest do... Mr. Khushwant Singh is not the first Indian to admire Mohammed Ali Jinnah and probably won`t be the last one... I am surprised however that after dedicating a special to Jinnah`s life in a leading newspaper, Khushwant Singh wasn`t declared an activist of Khalistan by the likes of P-Mishra, Harimau, Sadna etc...

We live in an age in which History is distorted by the nationalists ... true appreciation of historical figures is never realized... a load of garbage is associated with their lives to make the national symbols more in conformity with the state ideologies... Official Gandhi and Jinnah in both nations are no exceptions...


In any event I am not going to respond here again... We can continue this on email...

-YLH

samina #137
Wouldn`t whatever you (for instance) write be authentic `Samina`? That could be a combination of (for example) possibly laadli laDki :) + feminist + NY + NJ + S.Asian diaspora + Pakistani diaspora + progressive + Muslim consciousness + Devi consciousness + academic + activist + poet + .. .

Sorry if this is too simplistic and way off the mark, but I don`t see a problem. IMHO, in response to a writing urge, gaining mastery over conveying ones unique perspective in ones unique styles is primary and fitting into existing `genre` classifications(if that is the essentially marketing/academic definition of `authentic`), is a secondary consideration if one doesnot face the pressure of making a living from it.

Sameer, Hamid Sahib, Harpreet, anNy, HN, Sac, Bina, Sadna

Authenticity....

Sammi and Ferz:

..too much has been written her to go back and put it in a nutshell…and re focus…don’t feel upto it…

so let me just jump right into it…

one of the pleasures of writing on an anonymous board…or medium by extension… is that the writer can write from the heart and has no constraints…financial or moral…also one can experiment…top heart and writing-finger’s delight…to be immobilized by authenticity….as you put it…almost but not quite…mean….morality …one’s morality chases one in the darkest nook….heheh… a def. of charatcter I read once….it is what you are in the dark….

…heck I have been immobilized by ‘fiction’….there are things I could and have expressed in certain ways…that I deem not right for this medium… so what do I do?…nothing….just circulate it among some folks and forget….till the next catalyst strikes…Ferz knows a few others know…they have been supportive…but…this cross can only be carried by me….this is the kind of immobility striking…khair…one of these days….

lve,

t

Ps:

sameer:

yaar gulab jaman (farangi hydra jr.) per apna qeemti waq`t mut zayah karo...oos kay lyay jahannum kay `aalah` darajaat pehlay hee waq`f haiN...aisay `paRhay likhay` jaahilouN kay lyay srif maghfurat hee kee jasakhti hay...these maggots who do not have a single original thing to say....and almost always invariably resort to quotes...have only dead bodies to feed upon...the secret of their creation....

...just pay them their due respect...ignore them....







Sammi:
..too much has been written her to go back and put it in a nutshell…and re focus…don’t feel upto it…

so let me just jump right into it…

one of the pleasures of writing on an anonymous board…or medium by extension… is that the writer can write from the heart and has no constraints…financial or moral…also one can experiment…top heart and writing-finger’s delight…to be immobilized by authenticity….as you put it…almost but not quite…mean….morality …one’s morality chases one in the darkest nook….heheh… a def. of charatcter I read once….it is what you are in the dark….

…heck I have been immobilized by ‘fiction’….there are things I could and have expressed in certain ways…that I deem not right for this medium… so what do I do?…nothing….just circulate it among some folks and forget….till the next catalyst strikes…Ferz knows a few others know…they have been supportive…but…this cross can only be carried by me….this is the kind of immobility striking…khair…one of these days….

Lve,

t

... our students might not know their history, but soon they will have ``good character`` .........

KARACHI: Karachi’s city government will soon make it compulsory for girl students in schools and colleges, under it, to cover their heads with scarves, and music will be banned in vans carrying them, the city’s MMA Nazim Naimatullah Khan told Daily Times on Friday.

hamidm: I agree all of what you said. I did not say anywhere that Indian kids are somehow learning history objectively. However, Tughlaqs and Khilji could only be part of north Indian History. Teaching about them in South India would be unnecessary. Each Indian state with distinct culture must teach history of their area before teaching Tughlaqs or Khiljis.

It might be interesting to find out what history Bangladeshis teach to their kids. I wonder, if MB Qasim means same overthere as in Pakistan. Where did Sigalph go?

One of the funniest part of history taught in Pakistan is about Sher Shah Suri and GT Road. Everybody takes it for granted that he built more than 1000 miles long road within 4 years of his rule while continuously fighting the mughals. All references to a famous road existed before are completely deleted. It was actually revamping parts of an existing well-known east-west artery known as Rajpath or something like that.

Islamabad city is actually the best historical place to honor Ashoka or Chandragupt Maurya in token form. Taxila and surrounding Pothowar region was the center of gravity of Maurya dynasty. Almost certainly Ashoka and Chandragupt visited areas surrounding Taxila many times in their lifeimes. We can have a small Ashoka hotel at Bari Imam serving green stuff sprinkled with ground pistachios and almonds.

HamidM:

-`` they seem to know a lot about shivaji and gunga din but can`t tell the tughlaqs from the khiljis ``

Who the hell is Gunga Din? Are you referring to Alauddin Khilji and Mohaamed Bin Tughlaq? Both are mentioned, just that pre Moghul history is a bit confusing what with the slave dynasty and Balban and Razia Sultana etc. The Mughal period is much more well known and desi kids well know their Akbar from their Aurangzeb.