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Midnight's Knights?

Farzana Versey December 29, 2002

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#118 Posted by harimau on January 2, 2003 4:13:37 pm
Ref ali87 #113

[And the historical fact that SriRam`s preemminence in the Hindu Pantheon is fairly recent. Earlier dieties used to be Shiva and Vishnu(you must have read about the tussle for prominence between Shivasim and Vaishnavnism) Perhaps that could possibly explain why there are no major temples of SriRam.]

Ram is an avatar (incarnation on earth) of Vishnu. Of the 9 avatars so far, only Ram and Krishna are worshipped. Thus there is no conflict between the earlier worship of Vishnu and the later pre-eminence of Ram or Krishna.

[Perhaps a reading into the trends of popularity of various gods over the last couple of thousand years will give you better Idea why there are no major temples.

Also a reading into the capabilities of the ancient people and the materials availabel to them will give an answer as to why there are no temples for SriRam dating back to ancient times.

It is considered by historians that the initial spread of civilisation centered around the rivers of Punjab and later on in the marshy (what was then) flood plains of ganga and yumuna. Here the major (some say only) building material was brick(which doesnot last long). Stone not being available in these areas as well as (then) large timber (since marshy areas dont give rise to large trees) Brick was the primary material for construction(which explains why large building cant be found dating more than 1000 years since brick disintegrates faster than stone.) ]

You are SOOOO RIGHT! It is the lack of suitable building materials that caused Hindu temples to disappear. It took the genius of the Delhi Sultans to realize that they should use more permanent material and thus the Jumma Masjid, the various tombs of the Delhi sultans, the Red Fort, etc., are built of sandstone. See, clear proof of Muslim superiority over the benighted Hindus!

[True muslim Invaders did destory temples and also rember that they were given to exaggaration (since idol worship is considered very abhorrent in Islam royal historians tended to lace up the stories of destructions of Idols to show their patrons in better light to a primarily musilm audience)]

Actually, the Delhi sultans were considerate of the feelings of Hindus. If at all any temples were hit and destroyed by cannon fire, they gave large grants to re-build the temples. Professors at JNU can show you even a firman from Aurangzeb granting money to a temple in Benares. It is just that the benighted Hindus kept building with bricks even in the face of those large sandstone buildings in Shahjahanabad.

Of course, the fact that the few remaining temples are made of marble puts paid to your theory of brick construction.
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#117 Posted by arjun_m on January 2, 2003 4:02:29 pm
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#116 Posted by SameerJB on January 2, 2003 4:02:29 pm
Lord of the Gulab Jamans

Once upon a time two brothers, maida and khoya >/i> (cream of wheat and evaporated milk) planned to rule the world. They joined hands and baked a product after sweetening it with sugar - called Gulab Jaman. With new found fame, they bestowed upon themselves titles of Ghalib Zaman and Ghalib Zanan. Ghalib Zaman`s only son married Ghalib Zanan`s only daughter and their child Farangi Kush became sole inheritor of Gulab Jaman empire.

Farangi Kush`s empire crumbled after rest of the world understood the secret ingredient of Gulab Jaman, known as Jehad and developed better technology to protect Gulab Jamans from ants, preserved them for longer period and packaged them.

Farangi Kush had no choice but to compete. But nobody would buy his stale Gulab Jamans surrounded by flies and ants. Finally he came up with a scheme to compete. He changed the brand name from Farangi Kush Gulab Jamans to Ghalib Zaman Gulab Jamans, indoctrinated ants and flies with Jihad, allowed them to swarm around his Gulab Jamans as long as it is done peacefully as in dar-al-aman and trained them to attack competitions` Gulab Jamans with fury, rage and zeal considering those Gulab Jamans as dar-ul-Harb.

(This concludes first episode of Ghalib and Iqbals` Lords of the Gulab Jamans). Next episode, ``Protocols of the Elders of Gulab Jamans`` will be releasing soon.
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#115 Posted by satyavadi on January 2, 2003 4:02:29 pm
Romair #104:

[[He is very critical of all, ``invaders`` (Aryans, Ghaznavi, Mughals, British etc.). Gives high marks to Ashok, Bhudda, Sufis and considers his heroes to be the indigenous people of the area like Raja Rasalu (perhaps a fictional character), Dulla Bhatti, Guru Nanak etc. (Ashok and Bhudda being indigenous also).]]

Romair, please explain how Ashok and Buddha (not Bhudda) are indigenous to present day Pakistan. This is not a rhetorical question, I am genuinely interested in knowing HOW they are indigenous to that area.

Thanks.
Satyavadi

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#114 Posted by _digit on January 2, 2003 3:20:27 pm
In response to Romair, who wrote in #104:

``Did you know a Pakistani lady came very close to becoming the next queen of Jordan? She is the aunt of the current king. Pakistani women, do get around, I guess``

Her maiden name is ``Ikramullah``, or something like that. Can`t remember her first name. Her sister lives in Ottawa, from what I hear.

``However, there are no Ashoks, Krishnas, Mohans, Padmas, Gitas as names of Muslims.``

There are Patels, Daudjee`s, whatever-wallahs etc. You wouldn`t expect Krishnas, Gitas and Rams, as there are no Lat`s and Uzza`s even amongst the Arabs.

In any case, Arab and Persian societies became almost entirely Islamic ones, and so the names of the regions became `muslim` names. Ditto for the Turkic regions, and the far east (Malaysia and Indonesia). This is not the case in India, and so we have distinct set of `Hindu` names and `Muslim` names. By far and wide Muslims have rejected the vedic aspects of the Indian sub-continent`s culture, including names. I wonder if Muslims were in the majority, would they better come to terms with their Hindu past? Seems to be the trend.






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#113 Posted by Ali87 on January 2, 2003 3:20:26 pm
#41 by rsridhar on December 30, 2002 9:24pm PT

++++
The debate is not whether to build a temple in Ayodhya. Majority agree that a temple needs to be built. It is inconceivable that a holy site like Ayodhya (regarded as a Mecca of hindu pilgrimage by many) does not have a single big temple dedicated to SriRam. There must have been one and it fell to the same fate that befell other temples under muslim rule.
+++++
Intresting.... You only forget that there is no Ram in Vedas which are suppossed to be older texts.

And the historical fact that SriRam`s preemminence in the Hindu Pantheon is fairly recent. Earlier dieties used to be Shiva and Vishnu(you must have read about the tussle for prominence between Shivasim and Vaishnavnism) Perhaps that could possibly explain why there are no major temples of SriRam.

Perhaps a reading into the trends of popularity of various gods over the last couple of thousand years will give you better Idea why there are no major temples.

Also a reading into the capabilities of the ancient people and the materials availabel to them will give an answer as to why there are no temples for SriRam dating back to ancient times.

It is considered by historians that the initial spread of civilisation centered around the rivers of Punjab and later on in the marshy (what was then) flood plains of ganga and yumuna. Here the major (some say only) building material was brick(which doesnot last long). Stone not being available in these areas as well as (then) large timber (since marshy areas dont give rise to large trees) Brick was the primary material for construction(which explains why large building cant be found dating more than 1000 years since brick disintegrates faster than stone.)
True muslim Invaders did destory temples and also rember that they were given to exaggaration (since idol worship is considered very abhorrent in Islam royal historians tended to lace up the stories of destructions of Idols to show their patrons in better light to a primarily musilm audience)

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#112 Posted by hamidm2 on January 2, 2003 12:51:59 pm
gz

..... see what you have done? ..... you have managed to upset harpreet and saminashah who are some of the nicest people on chowk .......... shame on you .......
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#111 Posted by AAmir on January 2, 2003 12:24:16 pm
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#110 Posted by AAmir on January 2, 2003 12:22:55 pm
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#109 Posted by AAmir on January 2, 2003 12:02:22 pm
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#108 Posted by GhalibZaman on January 2, 2003 11:21:40 am
The fartwas from the atheist-commie (now leftie/progressive) illiterates at # 105 and # 107 really means that something effective and palliative is being administered. The disease is far advanced and the addiction of goraa asslicking and fartsniffing will remain till death do them and goraa apart.

This prescription & dosage to be continued without rancour & malice.
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#107 Posted by Harpreet on January 2, 2003 8:54:00 am

King Canute the Flatulent

Maybe your colostomy bag needs changing?

take care old man

-h-
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#106 Posted by sac on January 2, 2003 8:54:00 am
hamidm bhai:

Tsk....tsk..you are turning into a nihilist beyond repair. At least wait till your daughters are married off :) I am sure by your criteria eminem or Tupac are more worthy of our attention than Ghalib or Iqbal because millions actually do *understand* them. I am willing to wager you a pretty penny that I`ll never find you giving up your beloved Merlots and Reislings for likes of Coors or Zimas.........deal?

farzana:

My dear, I hate to tell you this but in the name of authenticity, real men(and women) do not suffer uncompromising bullshit. Nevertheless, do carry on.

later
-sac
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#105 Posted by Saminasha on January 2, 2003 8:54:00 am
Gulab Jamun Sahib,

It seems you should be the last person to write about authenticity. But here you are...
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#104 Posted by GhalibZaman on January 2, 2003 7:54:11 am
#101:Harpreet

I guess it was this fart (reproduced below) which you enjoyed a bit, so here is another serving. I know you prefer an old englishman`s farts more but if you are eager to seek some desi legitimacy then you must develop some good taste in your ancestoral farts as well.

If brevity is what you seek and admire then please learn to read long posts in several installments. That would also be a bit easier on your faculties.

[Harpareet:
It is always youngfarts who become oldfarts. You are welcome to the club. Are you thinking of becoming a Lit-lecher yourself? If you intend to do it in english, please attain some mastery in the art of alternate-orificing.

I detest Lit-lechers.]
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#103 Posted by hamidm2 on January 2, 2003 7:54:11 am
the fine art of whining

.......... sometimes i am ashamed of being a muslim, not because of our insane hatred for pigs, women and wine, but because we whine too much .......... someone dunks a crucifix in urine and forty fat christian whiners with bad teeth show up at the art gallery in jesus saves t-shirts to walk around with placards .......... someone makes a silly comment about a long dead prophet`s choice of wives and the crazed ummah, instead of simply whining, burn down half of nigeria .......... there will always be whiners whining about one thing or the other but, for god`s sake, we don`t have to go on a murderous rampage just because we don`t like a book ............ but then, who needs books when we have the book ............

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