USA and Muslims
Sameer January 9, 2003
#175 Posted by SameerJB on January 15, 2003 8:11:33 pm
Q. Does supporting quick removal of Saddam Hussein from power is an endorsement of US policies?
A. One needs to understand President`s Bush gameplan before answering this question. Obviously, nobody at chowk would be privy to confidential information about President Bush`s strategy but the intended goal as perceived by most and the media might be diferent than stated objectives.
Like any smart and well-calculated move, the gameplan takes into account to gain most with least cost -something lot more than just cost effectiveness. The plan actually does not envision a quick removal or even removal of Saddam Hussein. All the major players including Hans Blix, Kofi Annan and Tony Blair understand this strategy. The plan is to keep the pressure on Saddam Hussein, keeping the situation volatile and unpredictable for Iraqi leadership but not actually going for the major kill. The outwardly justification of going slow and carefully for the actual kill would be to minimize US casualties but underhand other factors dictate this strategy.
The world is washed with Oil right now. It is very important for major oil companies to keep at least one major player out of the market to make enough earning that pleases Wall Street. The big Oil companies happen to be the biggest Bush backers. By creating and keeping the situation in Persian Gulf unstable or volatile for several quarters also mean decent earning for Oil companies for several quarters. There is no hurry to kill profits for the major Oil companies. At the same time, easing the tension without war also means lowering the gasoline price and lowering the profits for Oil companies and must be avoided.
If the popularity contest entering the election season demands removal of Saddam Hussein; he would be removed quickly because re-election is a higher priority than profit margins of Oil companies.
This is just one possible scenario - a figment of my imagination, but it also suggests that supporting a quick removal of Saddam Hussein is actually as far from endorsing US policies as possible. In fact, it is no less opposing to US policies than the opposition by antiwar activists. If this post is read in association of my last post, the case for quick removing of Saddam Hussein no less progressive and morally and intellectually sound than the one made by antiwar activists in favor of basically easing tensions without any further activism planned.
A. One needs to understand President`s Bush gameplan before answering this question. Obviously, nobody at chowk would be privy to confidential information about President Bush`s strategy but the intended goal as perceived by most and the media might be diferent than stated objectives.
Like any smart and well-calculated move, the gameplan takes into account to gain most with least cost -something lot more than just cost effectiveness. The plan actually does not envision a quick removal or even removal of Saddam Hussein. All the major players including Hans Blix, Kofi Annan and Tony Blair understand this strategy. The plan is to keep the pressure on Saddam Hussein, keeping the situation volatile and unpredictable for Iraqi leadership but not actually going for the major kill. The outwardly justification of going slow and carefully for the actual kill would be to minimize US casualties but underhand other factors dictate this strategy.
The world is washed with Oil right now. It is very important for major oil companies to keep at least one major player out of the market to make enough earning that pleases Wall Street. The big Oil companies happen to be the biggest Bush backers. By creating and keeping the situation in Persian Gulf unstable or volatile for several quarters also mean decent earning for Oil companies for several quarters. There is no hurry to kill profits for the major Oil companies. At the same time, easing the tension without war also means lowering the gasoline price and lowering the profits for Oil companies and must be avoided.
If the popularity contest entering the election season demands removal of Saddam Hussein; he would be removed quickly because re-election is a higher priority than profit margins of Oil companies.
This is just one possible scenario - a figment of my imagination, but it also suggests that supporting a quick removal of Saddam Hussein is actually as far from endorsing US policies as possible. In fact, it is no less opposing to US policies than the opposition by antiwar activists. If this post is read in association of my last post, the case for quick removing of Saddam Hussein no less progressive and morally and intellectually sound than the one made by antiwar activists in favor of basically easing tensions without any further activism planned.
reply to this interact
write a new interact
add to favorites
flag objectionable content
#174 Posted by Ali87 on January 15, 2003 6:15:21 pm
another modern man in your mould
einsteinwallah, hair, americanexpress, Keshto....
http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=16712
Naipaul’s middle passage to India
Sagarika Ghose
Sir Vidiadhar Surajprasad Naipaul, Nobel Laureate and internationally anointed authority on India, has sprung to the defence of Tehelka.com, lamenting that the government’s ‘lack of graciousness’ towards the news portal will be severely detrimental to India’s nascent intellectual life.
It is an intellectual life whose existence Sir Vidia has only recently come to admit. At the Nobel prize ceremony in 2001, he said when he first began writing, India did not have an intellectual capacity to appreciate or understand his books.
However since then there has been a hopeful awakening of Indian ‘self awareness’, and after centuries of degradation, of mimicry, and of ‘defecating everywhere’ Indians are at last being able to acknowledge how constructive he’s been for the birth of the Indian mind.
Yet, Sir Vidia has begun to sound so terribly self-contradictory! On the one hand, he states that the BJP movement is a ‘movement from the earth’, that the destruction of the Babri masjid was a manifestation of ‘Hindu awakening’.
But while he celebrates Hindu awakening on the one hand, he is curiously disdainful of Hindu literature on the other. On the dais with Atal Behari Vajpayee at the inauguration of a literary festival two years ago, he waved aside the prime minister’s speech on ancient Indian literature and stories from bhasha literature and argued for a robust modernism that creates new modern writing rather than looking to the stories from the Hindu past.
Although in India: A Million Mutinies, he had quoted the poetry of Dalit poet Namdeo Dhasal and described it as moving, he recently said tales of ‘oppression’ were banal and wearying. In a recent interview, Sir Vidia said it was the duty of the Indian intelligentsia not to use ‘European’ terms of abuse against Hindutva, yet he also recently said that colonialism was no longer an issue and fifty years after independence it is irrelevant to think in terms of ‘European’ and ‘Indian.’
Sir Vidia believes there can be no ‘return to the past’. Yet he also celebrates India’s return to the past. He believes firmly in the BJP, but he doesn’t tell us how he is going to safeguard his views from becoming an apologia for the VHP mob. At the recent Bharatiya Pravasi Divas celebrations he thundered that Indians must shed their sense of victimhood. But in A Wounded Civilisation, he had written that unless Indians wake up to a racial sense, of a sense of being a single race against other races, it will be calamitous for India.
He believes ‘inherently fanatical’ Islam was the greatest calamity to befall India yet says nothing on contemporary Hindu fanaticism. He urges the intelligentsia to reclaim Hindutva from the mob, but has no ideas on how this can be done.
In Among The Believers, he asserts that Islam is an eraser of past histories, that wherever Islam conquers it determinedly stamps out preceding civilisations, just as in India and Indonesia, it stamped out the Buddhist-Hindu legacy and destroyed historical memory. But if such a universal destruction had taken place how has the new awakening taken place again?
Sir Vidia’s gaze is perhaps too firmly fixed on the destruction of Hindu empires by invading Muslim kings. He neglects to cast his eye on the innumerable little traditions of Hindu Muslim synthesis that are being increasingly studied by newer generations of post-colonial scholars. Rampuri Islam, Tamil Islam, Malayali Islam, the Islam of the folk saints of Bengal are not conquering forces. Rather they have been absorbed into a common local religious space and far from erasing historical memory actually co-exist with it.
Sir Vidia’s views on India are as changeable as the vicissitudes of Indian history. Over the years his positions have shifted incorrigibly. In A Wounded Civilisation he was hopeless. In India: A Million Mutinies he was hopeful. Today he urges a robust modernism but at the same time celebrates Hindu nativism as authentic.
He says in India there has never been any room for outsiders. But he also believes that Gandhi, educated in London, and Rammohan Roy influenced by French thought, were ‘outsiders’ who wrought crucial changes in history. He’s irritated by Indian women and all talk of gender, yet at the same time is admiring of the growth of women’s magazines, particularly Woman’s Era whose editorial tone is one of ‘love’.
There have been fierce criticisms of Sir Vidia for exhibiting his cultural and historical wounds for approving western patrons as a beggar might display his bleeding sores for a few pennies and a Nobel prize.
He has been attacked for becoming the messiah of those who seek anti-politically correct views on India and for assuaging British guilt about the Raj. Liberals loathe his ‘ill-informed’ views on Islam and fellow Caribbeans have pointed to his ‘insidious flattery’ of the West, for leaving no one in any doubt about where he considers the word’s cultural centre to be located.
Yet in spite of the severe problems with the Naipaul persona, you may pick up The Enigma Of Arrival, teeth clenched against wogs who try and become Englishmen and make a decision that you will hate the book almost as much as you hate the man, yet you will find that there is no power on earth that can keep you from being seduced by the beauty of the prose or the utterly moving, clear quiet gaze.
And this in a sense is the triumph of Naipaul. He makes himself almost as hateful as the subcontinent he despises. He sets himself up for ridicule, the top-hatted darkie with the Bertie Wooster accent who uses self-contempt and unfashionably nasty views on India to sell his books.
Yet once the reader begins to read A House For Mr Biswas, or The Enigma of Arrival or India: A Million Mutinies Now, a strange force begins to emanate from the words. The words in themselves describe ugliness and rawness, they seem disdainful and patronising but at the same time they seem to come from a agitated howl within.
And so however vicious the critique, however stern the reader’s own post-colonial predilections, Sir Vidia earns sympathy from the reader and keeps it forever. Like India, he is brutal, he is not pretty, yet the power of his words is irresistible.
But in the end, India has defeated Sir Vidia. It has defeated his belief that the only hope of Indian decay was more decay. It has defeated his conclusion that Islam had stamped out all sense of history.
It has defeated his treatise that institutions dismantled by the Emergency would never be put together again. And it has defeated his observation that India was a land where the intellect had died.
Sport, infotech, infrastructure, tourism, Bollywood, Panchayati Raj techno-religion, global entrepreneurs, cultural fusion and bounding new talents are blowing the bottom out of Naipaul’s early conclusions. The million mutinies of ‘rage’ and revolt’ have overwhelmed their chronicler, leaving him, today, in a welter of contradictions.
Yet Sir Vidia is probably not completely unhappy at being defeated. He’s 15 years older than independent India and has been its worthiest adversary.
einsteinwallah, hair, americanexpress, Keshto....
http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=16712
Naipaul’s middle passage to India
Sagarika Ghose
Sir Vidiadhar Surajprasad Naipaul, Nobel Laureate and internationally anointed authority on India, has sprung to the defence of Tehelka.com, lamenting that the government’s ‘lack of graciousness’ towards the news portal will be severely detrimental to India’s nascent intellectual life.
It is an intellectual life whose existence Sir Vidia has only recently come to admit. At the Nobel prize ceremony in 2001, he said when he first began writing, India did not have an intellectual capacity to appreciate or understand his books.
However since then there has been a hopeful awakening of Indian ‘self awareness’, and after centuries of degradation, of mimicry, and of ‘defecating everywhere’ Indians are at last being able to acknowledge how constructive he’s been for the birth of the Indian mind.
Yet, Sir Vidia has begun to sound so terribly self-contradictory! On the one hand, he states that the BJP movement is a ‘movement from the earth’, that the destruction of the Babri masjid was a manifestation of ‘Hindu awakening’.
But while he celebrates Hindu awakening on the one hand, he is curiously disdainful of Hindu literature on the other. On the dais with Atal Behari Vajpayee at the inauguration of a literary festival two years ago, he waved aside the prime minister’s speech on ancient Indian literature and stories from bhasha literature and argued for a robust modernism that creates new modern writing rather than looking to the stories from the Hindu past.
Although in India: A Million Mutinies, he had quoted the poetry of Dalit poet Namdeo Dhasal and described it as moving, he recently said tales of ‘oppression’ were banal and wearying. In a recent interview, Sir Vidia said it was the duty of the Indian intelligentsia not to use ‘European’ terms of abuse against Hindutva, yet he also recently said that colonialism was no longer an issue and fifty years after independence it is irrelevant to think in terms of ‘European’ and ‘Indian.’
Sir Vidia believes there can be no ‘return to the past’. Yet he also celebrates India’s return to the past. He believes firmly in the BJP, but he doesn’t tell us how he is going to safeguard his views from becoming an apologia for the VHP mob. At the recent Bharatiya Pravasi Divas celebrations he thundered that Indians must shed their sense of victimhood. But in A Wounded Civilisation, he had written that unless Indians wake up to a racial sense, of a sense of being a single race against other races, it will be calamitous for India.
He believes ‘inherently fanatical’ Islam was the greatest calamity to befall India yet says nothing on contemporary Hindu fanaticism. He urges the intelligentsia to reclaim Hindutva from the mob, but has no ideas on how this can be done.
In Among The Believers, he asserts that Islam is an eraser of past histories, that wherever Islam conquers it determinedly stamps out preceding civilisations, just as in India and Indonesia, it stamped out the Buddhist-Hindu legacy and destroyed historical memory. But if such a universal destruction had taken place how has the new awakening taken place again?
Sir Vidia’s gaze is perhaps too firmly fixed on the destruction of Hindu empires by invading Muslim kings. He neglects to cast his eye on the innumerable little traditions of Hindu Muslim synthesis that are being increasingly studied by newer generations of post-colonial scholars. Rampuri Islam, Tamil Islam, Malayali Islam, the Islam of the folk saints of Bengal are not conquering forces. Rather they have been absorbed into a common local religious space and far from erasing historical memory actually co-exist with it.
Sir Vidia’s views on India are as changeable as the vicissitudes of Indian history. Over the years his positions have shifted incorrigibly. In A Wounded Civilisation he was hopeless. In India: A Million Mutinies he was hopeful. Today he urges a robust modernism but at the same time celebrates Hindu nativism as authentic.
He says in India there has never been any room for outsiders. But he also believes that Gandhi, educated in London, and Rammohan Roy influenced by French thought, were ‘outsiders’ who wrought crucial changes in history. He’s irritated by Indian women and all talk of gender, yet at the same time is admiring of the growth of women’s magazines, particularly Woman’s Era whose editorial tone is one of ‘love’.
There have been fierce criticisms of Sir Vidia for exhibiting his cultural and historical wounds for approving western patrons as a beggar might display his bleeding sores for a few pennies and a Nobel prize.
He has been attacked for becoming the messiah of those who seek anti-politically correct views on India and for assuaging British guilt about the Raj. Liberals loathe his ‘ill-informed’ views on Islam and fellow Caribbeans have pointed to his ‘insidious flattery’ of the West, for leaving no one in any doubt about where he considers the word’s cultural centre to be located.
Yet in spite of the severe problems with the Naipaul persona, you may pick up The Enigma Of Arrival, teeth clenched against wogs who try and become Englishmen and make a decision that you will hate the book almost as much as you hate the man, yet you will find that there is no power on earth that can keep you from being seduced by the beauty of the prose or the utterly moving, clear quiet gaze.
And this in a sense is the triumph of Naipaul. He makes himself almost as hateful as the subcontinent he despises. He sets himself up for ridicule, the top-hatted darkie with the Bertie Wooster accent who uses self-contempt and unfashionably nasty views on India to sell his books.
Yet once the reader begins to read A House For Mr Biswas, or The Enigma of Arrival or India: A Million Mutinies Now, a strange force begins to emanate from the words. The words in themselves describe ugliness and rawness, they seem disdainful and patronising but at the same time they seem to come from a agitated howl within.
And so however vicious the critique, however stern the reader’s own post-colonial predilections, Sir Vidia earns sympathy from the reader and keeps it forever. Like India, he is brutal, he is not pretty, yet the power of his words is irresistible.
But in the end, India has defeated Sir Vidia. It has defeated his belief that the only hope of Indian decay was more decay. It has defeated his conclusion that Islam had stamped out all sense of history.
It has defeated his treatise that institutions dismantled by the Emergency would never be put together again. And it has defeated his observation that India was a land where the intellect had died.
Sport, infotech, infrastructure, tourism, Bollywood, Panchayati Raj techno-religion, global entrepreneurs, cultural fusion and bounding new talents are blowing the bottom out of Naipaul’s early conclusions. The million mutinies of ‘rage’ and revolt’ have overwhelmed their chronicler, leaving him, today, in a welter of contradictions.
Yet Sir Vidia is probably not completely unhappy at being defeated. He’s 15 years older than independent India and has been its worthiest adversary.
#173 Posted by Ali87 on January 15, 2003 5:15:42 pm
#171 by keshto on January 15, 2003 4:49pm PT
Keeshto learns from the west how to beat muslims....
but doesnt know the responses from muslims...
Mulsims kiss black cube no Idolatary there. just showing affection.. like when you shake hand kiss cheeks etc..
they dont pray to the the stone and ask for any thing..
going around kaba does not constitute idolatary..
Spare us the figures.. People are happy to die there..
Keeshto learns from the west how to beat muslims....
but doesnt know the responses from muslims...
Mulsims kiss black cube no Idolatary there. just showing affection.. like when you shake hand kiss cheeks etc..
they dont pray to the the stone and ask for any thing..
going around kaba does not constitute idolatary..
Spare us the figures.. People are happy to die there..
#172 Posted by Ali87 on January 15, 2003 5:15:42 pm
#169 by hari on January 15, 2003 3:41pm PT
Sorry to disapoint you it reads Eid mubarak..
Urdu news for 5 minutes in Bangalore caused roits for the first time in peaceful bangalore a few years back
I wonder what would happen if such a stamp is released in india.
what would be your response hari??
most of the comopolitan hindus just shrugged away the roits in bangalore. Govt with drew the announced news bulletin. Do you ever feel compelled to question the acts of hindus just as you critic the actions of muslims??
Sorry to disapoint you it reads Eid mubarak..
Urdu news for 5 minutes in Bangalore caused roits for the first time in peaceful bangalore a few years back
I wonder what would happen if such a stamp is released in india.
what would be your response hari??
most of the comopolitan hindus just shrugged away the roits in bangalore. Govt with drew the announced news bulletin. Do you ever feel compelled to question the acts of hindus just as you critic the actions of muslims??
#171 Posted by keshto on January 15, 2003 4:49:38 pm
=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts
view this users filtered interacts
#170 Posted by harimau on January 15, 2003 4:30:07 pm
Ref Cancelled-Credit-Card #164
[MODERNITY
1/no inequality of caste]
No inequality between men and women.
[2/no dowry or sati or lack of divorce ,inheritence ,gender selection foeticide of females,al that pre historic ancient vestigeal practices]
No honor killings, yes to divorce but no ``talaq, talaq, talaq``, no marriages to the Koran, alimony to divorced women, no polygamy.
[3/no idolatory]
No bending down in the direction of Mecca. You want to put your arse up in the air like some baboons do, face the Bay of Bengal.... NOT the ARABIAN Sea.
[4/no inequality based on colour race nationality language religion etc.]
Are you sure you wrote this? Muslims Are NOT more equal than others? WOW!
[5/RESPECT for female body NOT lust lecherness & drooling like dogs ...]
Free Playgirl subscriptions for all women.
[MODERNITY
1/no inequality of caste]
No inequality between men and women.
[2/no dowry or sati or lack of divorce ,inheritence ,gender selection foeticide of females,al that pre historic ancient vestigeal practices]
No honor killings, yes to divorce but no ``talaq, talaq, talaq``, no marriages to the Koran, alimony to divorced women, no polygamy.
[3/no idolatory]
No bending down in the direction of Mecca. You want to put your arse up in the air like some baboons do, face the Bay of Bengal.... NOT the ARABIAN Sea.
[4/no inequality based on colour race nationality language religion etc.]
Are you sure you wrote this? Muslims Are NOT more equal than others? WOW!
[5/RESPECT for female body NOT lust lecherness & drooling like dogs ...]
Free Playgirl subscriptions for all women.
#169 Posted by hari on January 15, 2003 3:41:27 pm
Off the subject:
I came across a US postage stamp celebrating Eid, and it has got
``Kalima`` written on it(I think).
What happens if one licks at the stamp? Isn`t that equal to spitting? or conversely ``kissing`` .
If I mail an envelope with those stamps, say to, Saudi/pakistan, will they remove those stamps or STOMP the stamp with the date-stamp?
The possibilities are endless in the hands of an ``infidel``?
I came across a US postage stamp celebrating Eid, and it has got
``Kalima`` written on it(I think).
What happens if one licks at the stamp? Isn`t that equal to spitting? or conversely ``kissing`` .
If I mail an envelope with those stamps, say to, Saudi/pakistan, will they remove those stamps or STOMP the stamp with the date-stamp?
The possibilities are endless in the hands of an ``infidel``?
#168 Posted by einsteinwallah on January 15, 2003 2:17:48 pm
[ #164 by AmericanExpress on January 15, 2003 8:09am PT
...
MODERNITY
1/no inequality of caste
2/no dowry or sati or lack of divorce ,inheritence ,gender selection foeticide of females,al that pre historic ancient vestigeal practices
3/no idolatory
4/no inequality based on colour race nationality language religion etc.
5/RESPECT for female body NOT lust lecherness & drooling like dogs ... ]
Where is freedom? Where is science? IMHO our age is age of science and freedom. Modernity is science and freedom. And that implies freedom to investigate Muhammad and freedom to question Islam as only religion, Allah as only god.
...
MODERNITY
1/no inequality of caste
2/no dowry or sati or lack of divorce ,inheritence ,gender selection foeticide of females,al that pre historic ancient vestigeal practices
3/no idolatory
4/no inequality based on colour race nationality language religion etc.
5/RESPECT for female body NOT lust lecherness & drooling like dogs ... ]
Where is freedom? Where is science? IMHO our age is age of science and freedom. Modernity is science and freedom. And that implies freedom to investigate Muhammad and freedom to question Islam as only religion, Allah as only god.
#167 Posted by SameerJB on January 15, 2003 2:17:48 pm
rsaxena # 166: Sri is right. It is not a time to be adamant about principles. The cost of standing up for the principle of non-interference in the internal affairs of other countries and other antiwar activities will be paid in the form of blood of innocent Iraqi people. The USA is not ready to back off because a weakened Iraq increases the probability of victory for USA to almost 100 percent with little risking the lives of US combatants (unless Romair has calculated otherwise).
Saddam Hussein knows it too. But he is not ready to relinquish power to save Iraqis lives. I believe offer is on the table for him and his family to accept exile in Libya. Exile or end of Saddam now saves millions from unnecessary hardships, terror and miseries. Six more years of Saddam, six more years of peace and six more years of crippling sanctions against Iraqi people.
Anti-Americanism/ anti-Imperialism is often justified but one should not be blinded by it like faith to oppose USA even if it means prolonging Saddam Hussein`s dictatorial grip on Iraq as well as perpetualting miseries for Iraqi people. There are other issues and means to oppose imperialist policies of USA but in this case forcing Saddam`s exit is the right strategy.
Removal of Saddam now is not just good for USA but good for most of the fuel importing poor third world countries like Pakistan. Sooner Saddam Hussein leaves the scene, sooner Iraqi oil will drive the gasoline prices down, helping USA economy to start growing again, increasing the consumer confidence leading to more consumption of the goods manufactured in pooe third world countries, improving balanace of payment for these poor countries and most importantly reducing the energy/ gasoline import costs for Pakistan, India,....................
These are some of the reasons in support of early removal of Saddam Hussein. It is not a matter of supporting imperialism but to create a situation that is better for everybody except Saddam Hussein, his family and his coterie.
I do not know about Iraqi people, but removal of Musharraf with the help of USA would not create much protest in Pakistan even though Musharraf is not even close to the ruthlessness of Saddam because, thus far, his back is not against the wall.
Saddam Hussein knows it too. But he is not ready to relinquish power to save Iraqis lives. I believe offer is on the table for him and his family to accept exile in Libya. Exile or end of Saddam now saves millions from unnecessary hardships, terror and miseries. Six more years of Saddam, six more years of peace and six more years of crippling sanctions against Iraqi people.
Anti-Americanism/ anti-Imperialism is often justified but one should not be blinded by it like faith to oppose USA even if it means prolonging Saddam Hussein`s dictatorial grip on Iraq as well as perpetualting miseries for Iraqi people. There are other issues and means to oppose imperialist policies of USA but in this case forcing Saddam`s exit is the right strategy.
Removal of Saddam now is not just good for USA but good for most of the fuel importing poor third world countries like Pakistan. Sooner Saddam Hussein leaves the scene, sooner Iraqi oil will drive the gasoline prices down, helping USA economy to start growing again, increasing the consumer confidence leading to more consumption of the goods manufactured in pooe third world countries, improving balanace of payment for these poor countries and most importantly reducing the energy/ gasoline import costs for Pakistan, India,....................
These are some of the reasons in support of early removal of Saddam Hussein. It is not a matter of supporting imperialism but to create a situation that is better for everybody except Saddam Hussein, his family and his coterie.
I do not know about Iraqi people, but removal of Musharraf with the help of USA would not create much protest in Pakistan even though Musharraf is not even close to the ruthlessness of Saddam because, thus far, his back is not against the wall.
#166 Posted by rsaxena on January 15, 2003 11:48:19 am
re: #165
{What U.S should do is just kill Saddam, his sons and all three of his duplicates. End the story once and for all. Saddam insane deserves to be executed and save the Iraqis from misery. }
...why?...did iraqis ask the US?...and if it is about democracy, why not go after saudi arabia and pakistan too?...
{What U.S should do is just kill Saddam, his sons and all three of his duplicates. End the story once and for all. Saddam insane deserves to be executed and save the Iraqis from misery. }
...why?...did iraqis ask the US?...and if it is about democracy, why not go after saudi arabia and pakistan too?...
#165 Posted by sri on January 15, 2003 11:07:03 am
What U.S should do is just kill Saddam, his sons and all three of his duplicates. End the story once and for all. Saddam insane deserves to be executed and save the Iraqis from misery.
#163 Posted by harimau on January 15, 2003 1:33:51 am
Ref ali87 #139
[... the immorality and very visible hyopcirsy of Jayalalita, The almost rebillion of the Tamils Under the now patriotic Karanunadhi. the situation in gujrat, nagaland and eastern states...]
The immorality and hypocrisy of Jayalalitha isn`t any worse than that of the ``now patriotic Karunanidhi``. I will have you know that Sangilikkaruppan will flay you on this board for not referring to Karunanidhi as Doctor Artist Leader. The only rebellion of the Tamils is against the 1.2 million government employees of Tamil Nadu, which exceeds the number of civil servants in three-times-as-populous Uttar Pradesh by fully 50%.
As far Nagaland, the leaders of the Nagaland liberation movement have categorically stated that they will not take up arms again. The only situation in the eastern states is that the Seven Sisters are not willing to give up their territory to satisfy the demand for a ``Greater`` Nagaland. And every single tribe is NOT going to get a state of its own.
As for Gujarat, have you seen a repetition of Godhra?
[... the immorality and very visible hyopcirsy of Jayalalita, The almost rebillion of the Tamils Under the now patriotic Karanunadhi. the situation in gujrat, nagaland and eastern states...]
The immorality and hypocrisy of Jayalalitha isn`t any worse than that of the ``now patriotic Karunanidhi``. I will have you know that Sangilikkaruppan will flay you on this board for not referring to Karunanidhi as Doctor Artist Leader. The only rebellion of the Tamils is against the 1.2 million government employees of Tamil Nadu, which exceeds the number of civil servants in three-times-as-populous Uttar Pradesh by fully 50%.
As far Nagaland, the leaders of the Nagaland liberation movement have categorically stated that they will not take up arms again. The only situation in the eastern states is that the Seven Sisters are not willing to give up their territory to satisfy the demand for a ``Greater`` Nagaland. And every single tribe is NOT going to get a state of its own.
As for Gujarat, have you seen a repetition of Godhra?
#162 Posted by harimau on January 15, 2003 1:33:51 am
Ref ali87 #150
[#147 by no_more_a_slave
What must be done to reconcile Islam with modernity? Can Islam be changed
For that you will have to first define modernity.. ]
Modernity is very simple to define: women must be allowed to appear in beaches wearing bikinis. Let us see if YOU agree.
[#147 by no_more_a_slave
What must be done to reconcile Islam with modernity? Can Islam be changed
For that you will have to first define modernity.. ]
Modernity is very simple to define: women must be allowed to appear in beaches wearing bikinis. Let us see if YOU agree.
#161 Posted by keshto on January 14, 2003 11:57:51 pm
=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts
view this users filtered interacts
#160 Posted by Ras on January 14, 2003 9:08:47 pm
Romair wrote:
``I think the anti-Abduls will soon start becoming friendlier with the Abduls, realizing that now they are in the same boat.``
Already happening.......
Ras
#159 Posted by arjun_m on January 14, 2003 8:26:26 pm
=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts
view this users filtered interacts
Interact Index
Latest Interacts
- sadna: PS: And if the... Living Gandhi and King
- khakiflash: SS - no, despite... Demon
- sadna: majumdar 'Sidelining of Muslim middle... Living Gandhi and King
- majumdar: Sadna, If ML had to... Living Gandhi and King
- harish_hyd: #38 by barristerakc At a... ‘Dustbin of history’ or
- sadna: majumdar If JUI lied in... Living Gandhi and King
- sadna: If JUI lied in... Living Gandhi and King
- sadna: And it is also... Living Gandhi and King
