Towards Greater Tolerance

Stuka,
Ta!

Harimau,

[Well, you must admit those clues at least got you thinking.]

Leave it out. I knew someone was going to say that. Thanks for the education regarding unwritten constitution and conventions (and especially the free eye-openers regarding Jinnah and Pakistan - I know I can always count on you for those) though you still didn’t explain why the second biggest religion in the UK (which is recognised as faith and not race) is not given the same protection as the major faith, that is, Christianity. Of course, it doesn’t matter, I was just interested. I`ll ask someone else.

Umair,
Pakistan, at its peak, held over 3 million Afghan refugees so yes, I`m sure Pakistan had the largest refugee population in the world. Indeed, Pakistanis have definitely been hospitable but there`s something about the UNHCR and World Food Programme aid finishing in `95, a resultant lack of wheat (in an agricultural country of all the places) and subsequently a few riots in Pakistan. Know anything about it?


t,
To be honest, who cares which nationality the dead people belonged to? 7 people died whilst on their jobs. An honourable death. That`s the bottom line. However, I was a bit cheesed off by the fact that someone was quick to fart off the death of an Israeli astronaut again…and again…and again…aaaaaand again, `but no links to a terrorist attack had been proved…yet`. You`d think that at this moment, they`d give the sensationalism a little break.

Well, my condolences and strength`s with their families and friends.

Umer M.

It feels good being quoted. Now I know how it must feel being Dr. Kessinger, Chomsky, and Einstien. Hate and prejudice aside but you gotta admit that what one person, that is, yours truly, was saying alone a year and a half ago is being echoed across the continents - people are chanting what this man said in the processions of over 100,000 at a time even in US. Oh the insight, the vision.......

Exploson of the Columbia shuttle today at about 9 a.m. is a tragic incident. The seven astronauts who died in the disintegration of the shuttle were all young or middle-aged (?). They had a life full of promise ahead of them. My heart goes out for them and their families. They died in the noble cause of space exploration and scientific discovery.

I am particularly saddened by the untimely death of Dr. Kalpana Chawala who was an aeronautical engineer. Although I do not personally know much about her and her life, her being on the shuttle crew itself was a great achievement. Her credentials which I could find on the internet are testimony to her professional brilliance.

I condole with her family.

(I apologise for this out of place intervention; the incident is important enough to be noticed and mentioned)

YLH:

Let`s talk about something more siginficant then the futile and unecessary explorations of ideology.

Close to Faisal Town Moon Market, there is a weight-training facility called `Rumi`s Gym`- located in a basement. I was offered to purchase it and run it as my business because Rumi was doing a terrible job of it. However, I decided to go for grad school.

With your Amrekan degree, I suggest you take up the offer and turn the venture around. Pakistanis have gone gym crazy lifting weights as if there`s no tomorrow (that is until the next day comes around and they can`t be bothered to persist with a routine) so put to good use your degree!

You`ll be doing the nation a great service by encouraging the youth to remain healthy.

Help to build those arms that will save Pakistan!

````while reporting they all mentioned the lone israeli astronaut but not one report that i have heard mentioned poor kalpana...i don`t think they did it deliberately...perhaps in their value system we are not high up yet... `` (Temporal)

temporal -- if it is any consolation to u -- they did not mention even the FIVE american dead astronauts --

all over CNN NBC, and CBS -- it was that precious israeli air force officer Ramon -- and his precious boss Sharon -- how must he be feeling poor thing -- all over the media --

of course one israeli death is more tragic than 10 dead Palestinians -- we all know that --

what we didn`t know -- that for even us americans -- even 5 dead americans are not significant enough -- as one precious dead israeli.

and you`re talking about the death of an Insignificant Indian -- and of all the people -- a Woman?

it is surreal -- ah those symbiotic parasites -- we love them to death!

YLH:

oh, right now, it`s a krappy facility- but i have no doubt that with a proper make-over, you`ll lure the masses to it.

temporal #124

over here, in the UK its the same, heart goes out to all the families who had to watch that happen to their loved ones... I am pretty sure that Kalpana will inspire many more South Asian women to aim higher... May God Bless their souls... Ameen


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#108 by tahmed32 on February 1, 2003 9:17am PT
My point in burdening you with all this is as follows: You can exchange insults and putdowns about Pakistanis (and your soul-mates from pakistan can do the same about Indians). But you people will never understand the reality of the human tragedies involved in all this. Your exchanges on chowk are so superficial and petty that I find it incredible that any of you could actually be grown men.

Agree with you, my dad still doesn`t talk about his journey from India, i think it traumatised him, and my Boah (phoophee, for the Urdu vallahs) goes on about Des all the time, she has such emotion and tears come to her eyes often, i think those ppl dissing each other here, should ask those that actually went thru it... I hope you at least go back to see your old house, my chacha went back to our house years ago, i would love to go (especially now that chacha has passed), i am planning on going next year InshAllah...

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#107 by hamidm2 on February 1, 2003 9:17am PT
...... i honestly think that indoos and pakis should stop interacting with each other .... the fact of the matter is that we loathe, despise and simply hate each other ....... as much as some of us might try to be politically correct and pretend to ``get along`` and say silly things like ``some of my best friends are hindoos or muslims`` , it is a futile effort to overcome this pathological, but quite reasonable, hatred .......... i will be the first one to admit that i don`t have any use for keralites or bombayites or anybody else who would rather worship a hamburger than eat it .........oh sure, i do socialize with some of these sideways head waggers on friday nights ( and, i must admit we do have a good time) but it is strictly out of necesssity - if i could find four good muslims to go drinking with, i would drop these infidels in a minute ......... the problem with most pakis is that as they get older they give up the spirits and become spiritual, closer to god and really quite useless as normal people on weekends ........ hence the dicotomy .............

......... so ylh, stop wasting your energy and talent on digging up jinnah and khushwant (isn`t he dead yet?) ......... it really doesn`t matter what a madrasi thinks about a lahori - as far as i can tell they are not even from the same planet ..........

lahore zindabad!
ylh zindabad!
hindustan murdabad!

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LOL funniest post yet


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Does it really metter how or what, the fact is Pakistan IS.

To all the Pakistanis,

What the Indians say has truth to it (the truth hurts), even our own ppl say this, no wonder US and EU are so sceptical... However now that the Indians (some with great glee) have pointed out many of our shortcomings, we should get out of our warped, state brainwashed, big brother (1984 the book not the TV series) style mindset/lock and actually do something about it

To all the Indians,

you know our shortcomings, and so do many of our ppl (the ones still living there)... instead of constantly trying to put down, demean, and degrade with great vindictiveness the land of the OolTy Ganga (i think thats another name for the River Indus), would it not make sense that you maybe offer advice, or suggestions or something constructive to Pakistanis that would actually aid us in bettering our country, and get rid of our problems (way to wishful). After all wouldn`t a stable, more democratic and freer Pakistan also be somewhat beneficial to India (in the grander scheme of things, although i know some of us (Pakistanis and Indians) just love to hate and be petty)...

has it ever occured to you that the saner elements of Pakistani society actually might need some encouragement, support, morale boosting for the challenges ahead?

Rozaiba: Knowing yasser we know first thing to happen to the gym would be name change to ``Jinnah`s Secular Gym - for madrassah training camp bound youth``(MTCBY) with a life size portrait of Jinnah on every wall. The minor detail that Jinnah probably never went to a gym should not deter the name change because I am sure he did point out to youngsters(like every elder) the benefits of good health at least once.:)

Yaseer Latifey --


You like selective quotations to prove your points. Now let me propose and than prove
Conclusion:
Bhutto was a cheat.
Proof:
: ``Zulfi was only 13 when he was first married to an older cousin Shireen, whose married name is Amir Begum. She was one of the three daughters of his wealthiest uncle, Khan Bahadur Ahmad Khan Bhutto, one third of whose wadero estate would be inherited by Zulfikar after his father-in-laws death. The bride was much older than her adolescent groom, but he took her to Kashmir`s Srinagar for their honeymoon and handed all bills to his father-in-law, who reluctantly paid. Zulfikar assured his second bride, Begum Nusrat, that his first marriage was ``purely for the property. However shortly after his daughter Benazir was born, Amir Begum also gave birth to a daughter.`` (Zulfi Bhutto of Pakistan: His Life and Times, Oxford, New York, 1993, p.22).

Will you agree with my conclusion based on ``Wolpert``

ally #134 I think I have in you an ally (in asking the chowk bickerers to grow up) whose parents crossed the India-Pakistan border in 1947 from the west to the east even as mine were crossing in the other direction.
:-)
I see that you also give some good advice to these chowk bickerers from pakistan and from india.
And it is in that spirit of our common humanity, that I join you and temporal and roohi and freethinker and others in mourning todays tragedy. The people who died today represented not just the US or Israel or African Americans or Indian Americans. They represented all humanity. They died for something that is worth striving for - advancements in science, including space exploration.
That is a truly a noble cause.

Dear Yasser: Thank you for a well written article. Being a Zoroastrian I never felt discriminated against in Pakistan. You are right that minorities in Pakistan are treated well. Keep up the good work. I have learnt a lot from your writings. Regards,

re: #131 by freethinker
You need not apologise. I have been feeling sick after hearing the news. I am just watching CNN like a zombie. Life will never be fair. I read about the Chawla family in rediff. A true testimony to the Punjabi spirit of entrepreneurship.
http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/feb/01spec.htm

Ms Chawla made it to the top by merit. It is a rare honor to be selected to be part of the crew which went took that fated journey. We, belonging to South Asia, are justified in feeling proud about her achievements.
Sridhar

re:#124 by temporal
I feel sad by the death of those astronauts. You are wrong in saying that Kalpana Chawla`s name was not even mentioned. It was mentioned several times. CNN even showed a small interview with her talking about her work and ending with a prophetic remark`` I have lived my life``.
Israeli astronaut is a national hero in Israel (which Ms Chawla is not in India). He was an ace pilot, one of the daredevils who took out the Iraqi nuclear installations in the 80s. Also, do not forget that jews control the media in US.
Sridhar

re: question of fundamental rights
Supreme court of India has ruled several times in the past that it is not possible for the Parliament to enact laws that would seek to change the basic nature of the constitution. Url: (PDF format)
www.humanrightsinitiative.org/programs/constitutionalism/publications/the_basic_structure_of _the_indian_constitution.pdf

Muslims in India need not worry. The Supreme Law of the land will defend their faith and rights every time they are infringed. Few countries in that part of the world can boast of such liberal laws. This is the only reason why no temple has ever been built on the area of Babri Masjid. No party can say so openly as it would be an infringement of fundamental rights of the muslms. BJP has done the next best. It has exploited the issue as much as it can for electoral gains and moved on to greener pastures viz islamic terrorism.
Sridhar

Keep on writing YLH.

Ras

FERZOK 11,

``He asks us to tell us of one road named after this great Pakistani hero... I say I`ll show him one in every major city, and halls, and institutes and schools, and libraries named after the great man...
``
tHE ABOVE QUOTE IS FROM POST 94 BY ylh. Ferzok, if you are a man bold enough to tell the truth, if you are a man who believes that hatred will destroy, it might be useful to make a beginning by telling the truth, truth about pakistan.

Ferzok, respond to the above quote from YLH. Tell the truth that there are no roads in pakistan named after abdus salam, show by example that there are times when one has to tell the truth. For once let the chowk people know that there is one pakistani who tells the truth, however grotesque the truth might be.