Another Visit to Pakistan

To Tania and and others:
There is no simple solution to Pakistan`s problems. No prescription that you can administer to corrupt politicians, power hungry generals, greedy feudals, callous bureaucrats and frothing maulanas that will set things right.The solution lies in yourseves whereever you are, provided you get involved in the struggle to change things. And the first step in such struggle is to look at the reality in all its messiness objectively, and make an attempt to understand it. To shoot the messenger is no solution. Swallowing paliatives whether they come in the form of pills or supernatural beliefs is even worse.

#35 by Tania on January 26. The fact of the matter is that Pakistan is chaotic. It is a country full of poor illiterate masses whos primary concern is where their next meal will come from.

Many politicians are not at all ignorant, but may appear to be so because their focus is on the immediate local issues rather than the broader perspective.

Unfortunately the systems in Pakistan are so weak that a lot of energy is spent on getting routine work done. The people as well as their elected representatives get so embroiled in the day to day mundane work, that it is very difficult for them to see the big picture.

There are very few ``educated clans`` in Pakistan and even those that are there will find it very difficult to come into a position of power. Remember that in Paksitan you have to be fairly mediocre to get elected.

The primary issue of course is that of corruption, which has become almost impossible to get rid of.

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#9 Urstruly: Great observation :) ahahahah. I think you describe the good professor well in a few short lines then what the Left-out professor was trying to describe about Pakistan.
This article was more about the left-out people ``bitching`` about their loss then anything else.

``I was invited to speak at a largely attended seminar... ...By the end of the two hour seminar a consensus had developed among the participants that the only viable resistance to American unilateralism can come from a unity of peace and left forces on a global level. ``

Sounds more like a secret little Red Party meeting then a ``Seminar``, Prof. Khrushchev. Pepper the leftist talk with a cute `Oh the Paki traffic` speech, one has an intellectual article dripping with enlightenment!

The article was devoid of any real substance.

The author Responds

To Amjad, # 1: I am not sure if Pakistanis in general are ``more united in their dislike of India`` (Some middle and upper classes are), but you are quite right that religion as such has failed to unite Pakistanis. In fact religion has been a dangerously divisive force.
No, I am afraid, hostility towards India, on official level at least, has not been difused or displaced by developments in Afghanistan. If anything, the Afghan jehad has been shifted to Kashmir, keeping the hostility alive. Tariq is doing fine.

To freethinker, #4: Yes, it is de ja vu all over again, with somewhat different nuances and ballances of political forces.
Bourgeois electoral politics is no where clean, but it is particularly dirty in Pakistan.
Yes, there are some redeemable elements among Pakistan`s people and cultures that still pulsate under the rubble of broken hopes and dreams, on the margins of the big rush to go nowhere.

To Romair, #6: Yes, the paliamentary democracy should work better if the party leaders come from lower and middle classes. But the ``elitist feudal`` classes will not allow that to happen easily. Z.A. Bhutto relied on some known lower/middle class leaders but quickly got rid of them. When Benazir took over the PPP, she was asked by a journalist, why the Party`s woking class cadres were not given tickets to run in the elections. Her reply: ``un ko vote nahiN miltay,`` they will not be voted for.
The MQM did have the composition of lower/middle class leaders, but its mohajir chauvinism, has restricted its appeal to Urban Sindh.
The problem with PTI is that it cannot outdo the mullahs at their game. People are simply not fooled by the feinged pieties and pathan (male) ghairat of its leader Imran Khan.

To urstruly, #9: I would not mind celebrating the LEFTOUT with you, if the RIGHTIN phenomenon had not brought so much shame to Pakistan.

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Re: romair
``...the military is the most respected institution in Pakistan...``
Respected or FEARED? Beat constables in India also obtain free service from paanwallahs and cigarette vendors. That does not mean that they are respected, but they are feared. In the subcontinent, fear is often disguised as feigned respect.

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Ref Field Marshal #22

[For example, when the Gujrat riots were going on, if an Indian Army General had disobyed orders from politicians, and protected the public, he would be subject to court martial. But I would support such actions.]

Were there any riots or threat to public order in October 1999 when Gen. Musharraf did not accept his lawful dismissal from the post of COAS?

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ali87 # 20, romair # 17

Nice try blaming the feudals !!!

The only sector feudals control in Pakistan is agriculture. Pakistani agricultural sector has done okay. It has not been a disater like Somalia, Ethiopia etc.

feudals do not control banking, education, industry. The poor performance in the these sectors cannot be blamed on feudalism.

ali87 #19/20: You have made good points.

I am not suggesting the Army should be allowed into politics. That should only be the very very last resort. And even then, it should be quick and it should get out. For example, when the Gujrat riots were going on, if an Indian Army General had disobyed orders from politicians, and protected the public, he would be subject to court martial. But I would support such actions. Similarly I think Musharraf should have been in and out in three years. I supported him for three years. I think he should have left after three years.

What I am highlighting is that many on Chowk seem to falsely propogate the idea that the average Pakistani (none of whom has Internet connections, so is not seen on Chowk) hates the Army. This is far from true, as shown in survey after survey, where Army comes out on top.

I always received far more respect amongst the taxi drivers, paan wallas, juice wallas etc. as a poor Captain, then I do now as a relatively well-off expatriate. A Pushto speaking Captain in NWFP, a Baluchi speaking local Major in Baluchistan could be the highest respected people in the province. I remember having financial tabs and credit lines just on my words in small restaurants twenty miles away from where I was stationed. Everyone trusted a Captain. I cannot do that anymore when I go to Pakistan now.

Secondly, the Captain and sepoy are very middle class while Chowk brigade is all upper-middle to upper class. The taxi driver`s son has far more chance of becoming a Captain than of joining the Chowk expatriate crowd. So it seems odd when the Chowk rich crowd holds the middle class and lower-middle class soldier as the cause of Pakistan`s financial problems. Usually, in most countries, it is the upper class (Chowk crowd) that causes financial problem, since they are the only ones living well, and thus have an interest in the status quo continuing. The only Army folk in the upper class are the 170 Generals, who are generally correctly disliked for the right reasons. And most of them want to keep the status quo going also.

#18 by Romair on January 16, 2003 3:42pm PT

While what you are saying is right what you are leading upto is wrong.

Army is the right instituion in which the public trusts to guard the countries borders.

As a institution to run the country its results are seen in pakistan and many places of the world.

I think that as a ex military person you should be able to make the difference.

The poliitcal instituions by the nature are mulitfacated and involve dealing with varied issues which are of intrest of manyconflicting sections of socitey thus are prone to failure or at least appear as capable of being courroupted at least by the party spurned.

The army has a uni-functional role ie the integirty of the nation. It is usually provided the funds as well as the assets and independence on priority basis to fulfil its function.

If it not surprising that it is largely able to fulfil its limited role and thus worthy of trust (ie to fulfill its assigned task).

Dont confuse this as a trust to take charge of the countrys other instituions and run the complex task of selfgovernence of people.

# #17 by Romair on January 16, 2003 11:50am PT

I think that you have rightly identified that the feudal structure of pakistan is the largest impedement towards progress.

Dismantling of this was done in all countries and even by India where it survives in some states. These states compare with pakistan in the sociteal decay that exists in them.

If pakistanis could wake up to this reality then pakistan will be able to really change its destiny.

However Islam has no positon on fedualism. Ie how to treat the wealth/land cornered by a few into their hands.

However I read yesterday news in which a pakistani court has banned the Heriditory Lumbardari system. Perhaps this is the first step.

Now here is something interesting:

``LAHORE–Describing declining public trust as the foremost leadership problem a survey by World Economic Forum just before world leaders meet in Davos reveals that army is the most trusted institution in Pakistan, India and the US while democracy is the least trusted institution in many regions.
The World Economic Forum’s 33rd Annual Meeting will be held in Davos on January 23 -28 under the theme “Building Trust”. The Meeting, which has convened in Davos, Switzerland, since 1971 will be attended by 2000 delegates from 99 countries.
The most troubling finding according to the survey is that the principal democratic institution in each country (i.e., parliament, congress, etc.) is the least trusted of the 17 institutions tested. `` (http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/170103/main/top5.htm)

I was aware of the military being the most respected institution in the USA. Surveys have proven that year after year. I wasn`t sure where it stood vis-a-vis civilian institutions in India.

Pakistani surveys by magazines like Herald, etc. generally show that the military is the most respected institution in Pakistan. This would probably shockmany of the Chowk readers, whose expertise of the military doesn`t go beyond Zia-ul-Haq. They should still take the trouble to read surveys.

I personally felt this as well, when I was in the military. The Pakistan sepoy and junior officers are highly respected amongst common Pakistani folks (apparently not amongst ex-patriates). Even journalists and politicians always speak highly of the sepoy, while criticising the Generals. While expatriate green card holders are highly respected amongst rich Pakistanis, normal Pakistanis don`t care one way or the other about the wealthy expatriate Green card holders.

It would be interesting to get the details of this survey. It was done by an international agency. Hopefully, this will lay to rest the arguments a lot of people unfamiliar with the military keep making, i.e. everyone in Pakistan hates the military. A lot of people hate the Generals, but as seen, and as I have been saying, it is a different story when it comes to the jawans and the Captaans.

Stuka #11: You have made some interesting points, as usual.

However, I have to disagree.

I am no fan of MMA. The only time I would support them is if they were competing with feudals. Due to this, the party I support, PTI, now votes for MMA candidates, as opposed to PPP or PML candidates. I would support PTI type parties. I would also support (originally) leftists parties, like PPP, if they weren`t dominated by feudals. In my opinion, a non-feudal PPP = PTI, and that is what most Pakistanis want in their politics.

However, when supporting or opposing parties, one has to understand where they stand, and what they are doing. MMA parties are not similar to BJP. SSP (Sipah-e-Sahaba) is equivalent to BJP. MMA does not, as far as I know, support or order the killings, or organize the killings of people of other majorities. Can you point me to something on their website, or statements by their leaders, where they have done so?

``The only reason MMA is not killing is coz there is no sizeable minority left to kill.``

Actually there are around 3 to 4 million religious minorities in Pakistan, so there are, ``enough to kill,`` to put it in your terms. Infact, it is easier to kill them in Pakistan, than in India, since in India they can put up a resistance both politically and physically due to much larger numbers. However, I have never seen mob killings of religious minorities in Pakistan, in my whole life. Which would mean the MMA types have never encouraged it. Nor has anyone else.

``MMA is the political arm of the radical right, including Sipah e Sahaba.``

MMA is not the political wing of SSP. Infact, MMA has Shia party as its member. And parties like Jamaat are multi-sect parties, to begin with. The killings of Shias in Pakistan was being done by the militant wing of SSP. And the counter killings of Sunnis was being done by similar wing of TNF Jafferia. These parties are banned in Pakistan and their members of their militant outfits are considered terrorists. The political head of SSP was put in jail by the current govt. He won an election in jail and had to be released by the Courts, since there was no proof against him. He is the only equivalent of BJP leader in the Pakistan assembly, and his party could be considered the political wing of a terrorist organization that targets Shias (not Hindus, but people of the same faith as Sunnis).

Interestingly, as the US has been helping Pakistan in anti-terrorism efforts, a greate number of the sectarian terrorists have been caught. If you notice all the killings of Shias have stopped now (specially those of the Shia doctors). Its because the people killing them (it turns out there were only a handful) are in jail. SSP or TNFJ are not members of MMA.

The only killings going on now are those of Christians. Christians, traditionally, have never been killed in Pakistan. They had discriminatory laws against them, like Blasphemy law, but they were not killed in terrorism. The current killings are related to Al-Qaeda (which originated outside Pakistan and is dominated by Arabs, not Pakistanis), and its sister branches, not to the MMA. And Al-Qaeda is considered a terrorist organization by the Pakistan govt. Infact, the MMA has opposed both Al-Qaeda and USA policies (which is what many, if not most, Pakistani liberals are also starting to do now - read Hoodbhoy`s article).

This is the deciding difference between BJP and other religious parties, like MMA. BJP, as a policy, on their website www.bjp.org sidelines Muslims and through direct actions of their leaders has killed Muslims. MMA does not.

Also, BJP is running the govt., while SSP only has one representative MNA, and even he had to be taken out of jail. BJP is non-secular to the extreme, but says it is secular. MMA openly says it is not secular and it isn`t.

The main problem with Pakistani religious parties, actually isn`t violence. Feudal violence is far worse than MMA violence. For example, I have never heard of MMA ordering a gang-rape of women, but feudals have done so. I have never heard MMA ordering honor killings, while feudals do so. I have never heard MMA supporting child marraiges, while feudal leaders do so. MMA leaders do not have haris and slaves, while feudal leaders have many of them. MMA parties, barring one or two, aren`t heridatory. Feudal parties like PPP are. MMA leaders have no financial corruption cases against them (except a few), while PPP and PML leaders are swimming in them. etc. etc.

This would sound like the MMA parties being the answer to all problems in Pakistan. However, they are not. They are a problem (smaller problem than feudals, but a big problem still the same). Why? Because they are extraordinarily conservative (interestingly BJP is not conservative, though violent), and they have very strict defintions of how Islam should be praticed, i.e they are too self-righteous and are living in the 10th century.

While they won`t gang-rape women and will educate them (unlike the feudals who rape women and have the lowest women literacy rates in their own constituences while their own daughters are supermodels and Harvard trained lawyers), they will greatly reduce the women`s ability to function in a society as equals to men, etc. They will not kill minorities like BJP, but they will ask for separate elecotrates and out-of-date concepts like Jazia etc. And they will force everyone to follow their interpretation of Islam.

This, in essence is the tragedy of Pakistani politics. The liberal and leftist and secular agenda has been hijacked by internally non-democratic corrupt feudals, who practice liberal (though financially corrupt) policies in cities, but inhumane policies in their own lands. And the conservative agenda has been taken over by the relatively financially honest and internally democratic religious parties, who are less inhumane than the feudals in rural areas, but whose urban policies are too self-righteous and centuries out of date.

People need to stop supporting the PPP/PML as a counter to the MMA, and the MMA as the counter to PPP/PML. Both are bad for Pakistan. I think both these groups need to be sidelined - the feudals being the bigger problem. People need to start supporting third alternatives.

I hope someday the liberal agenda of Pakistan is dominated by pure non-feudal leftist parties of the type the author is mentioning with a secular and socialist agenda, and the conservative agenda is dominated by parties like the PTI, which has a very moderately relgious and progressive agenda for Pakistan.

I hope the above explains the differences between BJP and MMA. A BJP that did not kill Muslims, as a part of its agenda or hidden policy would be equivalent to MMA. You can go to www.bjp.org and mma.org.pk for more info.

slodhi, 14,

Lotus is a venerated flower in india by the hindus, hardly any eat it, but it appears that you have been eating a lot of it. Now pakistan is on a decline, it will reach a stage when the only change can be towards the positive, the country has to reach its nadir. All your talk about educating pakistanis can only slow the decline and prolong the agony.

If you really love pakistan, accelerate the decline, join romair and tahmed, send money to the jihadists, take alquida franchise, support mushi, say that jihadists are the products of US support for afghanistan, say that there is no infiltration in kashmir, above all eat fauji brand corn flakes while in pakistan and do a bit of honour killing while there.

````I think MMA came into power in NWFP and Baluchistan, not because of religion,...” (Romair)

very insightful romar miaN:-)

Welcome Dr. Gardezi -- thought that romantic `species` was long extinct -- apparently not....

good luck

Peace,
Left, left outs, or right, they are no good for Pakistan until they all stop talking in their drawing rooms and come and face the problem on the street and bring a solution. I think solution to our problem is spreading education. I am not a wealthy man, just a hard working everyday guy who make enough to support my family. I have excellent teaching experienc in Pakistan and USA, I would like to work with any organisation who is willing to provide MEANINGFUL EDUCATION solution for Pakistan. One schoole here and another there, is not a solution. We got to have aplan. We should first raise money, and hire the best people possible to make this elaborate plan of making new curicula, which are truly Islamic, Progresive and of practical value for our future generations. It should be focused on educating new generation kids for all walks of life. Not just doctors or engineers, but also the future, nurses, craftsmen, janitors, bus drivers, and mini marts or grocers, farmers, etc. If we realy love Pakistan thats the way to go. I dont have money but I am willing to go back and use my teaching experience if some of us come out and make a coherent plan of educating the masses. Individuals can change life but only at the individual level, to something as massive as Pakistan we need a co-operation between the well to do intelectual, to come out of their drawing rooms and open up their vallets for the purpose.
Peace...

#11
Stuka:
just a little clarification..Azam Tariq, the head of SSP(now outlawed) hasn`t been a part of MMA since its inception. He`s in Musharaf`s camp, and therefore was bailed out just days before Jamali`s election.

The pro-iran TJP who suffered the heaviest losses during the spate of targetted killings (in Punjab and in the northern areas), is a part of MMA, and it`s leader is headed to the senate on the MMA ticket..

The situation in Karachi is different though, since the urdu-speaking shiites don`t really welcome the `pro-iran northerners` in their midst. For this reason, the support for MMA+TJP within karachi is rather thin. MQM is the natural, or may be the only choice for urdu-speaking shiites because of it`s liberal outlook in terms of religion, and Altaf Hussain`s barelvi(and hence pro-shia) credentials.

On can argue that outside Karachi, majority of the Shiite victims were somehow connected to the TJP, and thus were iran-sympathizers. This `twist` differentiates their situation from their muslim brethern in India. The Pakistani shiites are a victim of a tussle b/w pro-iran and anti-iran camps, that involves multiple parties and countries. In other words, one reason they were targetted was because something happened in the neighborhood, of which they had no control... But somehow they were deemed responsible and hence punished. This is what I sometimes mention to my irani friend: `we are paying the price for your Inqilaab`!!

Referring to ``kashaziz`` (#2)

I was willing to make a compromise in my stand for abortion rights until reading the idiotic quip belched by kashaziz. The ignoramous comment hurled at an icon of decency and intellectual integrity is blasphemous, almost felonious. Now I do believe in family planning, retroactive to the commentator`s birth.

Romair:

The only reason MMA is not killing is coz there is no sizeable minority left to kill. Inspite of that the killings of Christians continue. You may say the MMA does not do it but the MMA is the political arm of the radical right, including Sipah e Sahaba.

The number of Tehrik e Jafria members killed in the past decade runs in the 100s, but how many times did Fazlu or Sami Ul Haq condemn these killings?

Even in India, the BJP ministers do not kill people. It is VHP the co-ordinates and the Bajrang Dal cadre that provides the muscle. The Bajrang Dal was infact started in the 1980S as a counterpoint to the Muslim Adam Sena in UP. The Adam Sena withered away but the Bajrang Dal recieved political patronage and it flourished. Similarly, SSP has flourished only because of political patronage of the religious right, and by extension the Army.

The BJP is equally a result of popular mandate as is the MMA.

harimau #8: ``I notice that while you are able to swallow the MMA, the BJP sticks in your craw.``

I oppose the BJP, not because it is religious, but because it is violent. It is killing people. If the MMA today starting killing people, I would support its banning also. But to the best of my knowledge it hasn`t killed anyone yet.

On the whole I oppose parties like BJP and MMA. However, if one believes in idealistic democracy for third world countries (which, by the way I don`t believe in, specifically because it throws up parties like BJP and MMA and PPP and PML - hence my support for Musharraf for three years) then one has to tolerate the rise of the MMA. One should not, however, tolerate the rise of parties like BJP or Sapah-e-Sahaba (Pakistan`s equivalent of BJP) because they are killers. MMA is just ridiculously conservative. It does not kill Hindus.

I hope that makes things clear.

I would like to point out some typographical errors and inconsistencies in this article. The first is the use of word/phrase left that good professor has liberally used; I think the most appropriate phrase should be left out instead.

And yet at another place professor is claiming that the people of left ooops I mean left outs are planning to form a human chain from Islamabad to Rawalpindi to protest something; I was wondering if these left outs were ever able to gather 50 people under one roof since the collapse of ``Islami Socialism``. And how are your left outs friends gonna get funds for their NGOs if you even think of protesting against the hand that feeds - if you know what I mean.

So I suggest good Professor an advise from Punjabi conventional wisdom ``Batkhay ghat marya karo pehlwan ji``.

Ref Field Marshal #6

[If one accepts democracy, then one has to accept whatever democracy throws up, including MMA.]

I notice that while you are able to swallow the MMA, the BJP sticks in your craw.

A warm welcome back Dr. Gardezi.

From one of the Pakistan Progressive publication fans, I am glad that what is left of the Pakistani Left (post Zia and Berlin Wall) is still optimistic.

I have lost touch with Mrs. Nadera Ahmed but am not at all surprised
that she is doing some great social work in Pakistan via a school. Although I did not get a chance to ever meet Dr. Feroz Ahmed ,
I have long admired his work.

Please send me an email at ras@chowk.com if you read this reply.

It is time for the beaten up old Left to assist the voices of sanity again in this crazy world post 9/11.

Just one more request:

Please keep writing on CHOWK. People here could learn a lot from you.

Regards

Ras H. Siddiqui

Interesting article.

Concentrating a bit too much on MMA, at the expense of other problems in Pakistan. If one accepts democracy, then one has to accept whatever democracy throws up, including MMA. I think MMA came into power in NWFP and Baluchistan, not because of religion, but because people were fed up with the corruption and incomptence of the leftist ANP and the Tribal Baluch parties, respectively.

I think Pakistan`s non-religious political parties need to be taken out of the hands of elitist feudals and need to start coming up with middle and lower class leadership. This is the biggest strength of the MMA. Once one gets past the top leaderhip, everyone else is very middle and lower class, i.e. farmers, maulvis. student leaders etc. This is what the non-religious parties, other than MQM, lack.

What are you your views on Tehrik-e-Insaaf? I would be interested.

It is deja vu all over again. The narrative that you have posted is not very different from similar stories described on every change of government in Pakistan. Is there any honest person, a role model, left among the Pakistani politicians and the army generals? After reading your report, it is hard to believe if there is any conscionable person there in the Pakistani political arena. It is a wonder indeed that Pakistan has survived for so long in spite of such corrupt leadership.

Or else the critics have become too cynical. Was it an enjoyable trip for you? Did you experience any thing worth relishing?

The question is how long will Punjab & then the small provinces be free from Army interferences? Never, I think.

Dr Gardezi,
Thank you for this account of your travels through and your stay in Pakistan. It is always good to read and hear about progressives committed to social justice in Pakistan.
And I hope Punjab remains a MMA free Punjab!
regards,
ana

lot kay budu ghar kau aaye

Dear Dr. Gardezi,

Welcome back to the CHOWK! For those of us who are less fortunate to have visited the post-9/11 Pakistan, your detached and matter of fact report is revealing. I am tantalized by the way in which Pakistanis are, as someone observed, more united in their dislike for India than by their religion. Is the hostility towards India being replaced or diffused by the developments in Afghanistan? And by the way, how is your son? I saw him when you used to bring him to the campus.