Can we Stop the War

We need Jehadis because the economic systems in the Afghanistan, the Middle East and Indonesia have virtually eliminated poverty! I`m surprised Cuba is even mentioned in this slipping in the intellectual quagmire that Gulab Jamun Sahib has offered...Zig and he zags...slipperier than a pig oiled in butter!

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Urstruly:

Thanks for pointing out the subtle differences.

What I really wanted to rub in was that there has been no freedom ever achieved without driving out the enemy by jehad. Even if there is a temporary setback the embers of desire for overthrowing the tyrant & the colonist should always be kept smouldering.

USA has always been defeated anywhere & everywhere eversince it became US. It dare not now enter Somalia or Cuba . Dragging the American bodies does accomplish a lot. North Korea knows that well too.

No nation has ever been enslaved without the complicity of mir jaffars and poornyaas. Muslim conquerers were also very successful because of tremendous help by the locals--some themselves muslims to get a feel of the throne .
The secularist , atheists, commies, & humanists are trying to be the present day poornyaas & mirjafars.

Bush has, perhaps unwittingly, uttered the ultimate Truth.
``Are you with us or with them``.
For most muslims the answer is ``with niether``. Can the left-outs in the outfield say the same? Can the commies resurrect themselves now that their Ammajaan is an old hag with full capitalistic make-up on.

Urstruly,

Don`t hold your breath...the younger Iranian generations have other plans...

Ghalib Zaman: ``The only colony that kicked out and defeated the British was USA. ``

This is a misconception which is perpetuated by neocolonialists. When Americans kicked out British, it was not a victory against colonialism; as a matter of facts it was the complete victory of colonialism when the colony no longer felt dependent on the mother country. Please appreciate this delicate difference.

By the way don`t forget Vietnam, who also kicked out USA, Libya kicked out Italia, Algerians kicked out French, and Afganistan kicked out Russia. Unfortunately, although all of them kicked out colonial aggression successfully from their lands some of them could not kick out the slave menatlity from their lands and the class that once used to look after colonial intersts. I think in this regard Iranians have been the luckiest, for they irradicated also the class of people who looked after colonial interests in their country even after independence. I think it is not the worst thing that could happen to a nation that it is over-powered by other. The worst thing is when you lose sense of it. And that class, that I mention, work diligently for their masters to erase this sense from their people`s minds.

Rsridhar,

Well done-there was and continues to be a multitude of cultures and languages in India, English being one of them.

Faisaluno,
So you don`t misunderstand me,- I don`t loathe myself, I loathe those Muslims who say,`` Yeh tho baath hain...`` when confronted with the stupidity that passes for interpretation and yet do not have the COURAGE or the VISION to call it for what it is...to me these people are a waste of blood plasma. And if my ties to community really concern you, worry not-my sisters and brothers here and in Pakistan are well aware of what needs to done...

Ghalib Zaman #54 you write ``PS: Scottish, Irish, and welsh AND french fiercely assert---even if lapped by the english-channel waves----and therefore walk tall & head high. ``
I am not sure how you reach the conclusions that scots and irish and french walk tall and head high, and (as you imply) pakistanis do not. Nor do I know how you reach the conclusions (as is also implied in your post) that speaking in one`s ``mother tongue`` is a prerequisite to walking tall and keeping the head high.
Among the nationalities you mention, the French are the most sensitive about their language (which after all served as the court language and the language of diplomacy in Europe for a thousand years). They have gone to great lengths starting from the 1960`s to keep english words out of French, including the absurdity of creating new words. However, today, whereas French has a total vocabulary of a little under 100,000 words it is no match for English with a vocabulary of over 2 million. Others in Europe - the Swedes, Danes, Dutch, and increasingly Germans - can speak English as well as their native languages. And they dont make a fuss about it either.
In the US, the people who make the most fuss about their blessed language and culture are the Hispanics (who profess their love for Spanish). They also happen to be very well represented at the bottom of society. And interestingly, most hispanics (who are descendants of South and Central American Indians) are the children of people who were forced to learn Spanish by colonialists.
So: I dont think what you assume is correct. Language is a superficial thing. It changes with time. The only thing constant, the only thing that matters, is values and character (and I am repeating what I said on another board). Glorification of language and clothes is superficial bs.

rsridhar:99

The unglee breed in Pakistan that I am talking about is not your kind. This wretched calss is the one who takes immense pride in NOT being able to read, write, or speak in any home language.

About India you are perhaps a better judge.
An ``ignorant`` mullah considers even a profanity spewed in arabie as a homily. The ``educated`` O & A leveler considers even a dockyard bum from liverpool as an expert in Pakistani affairs.
(examples quoted are for maximum effect)

Angraizee zaroor purrh----angraiz naa bunn. Got it?

Tulsi daas is fine. I am talking about written work. What script was in avadhhee?

If dalits have no qualms about brahmanism then the times must have changed. No?

Gandhi & Nehru are grossly over-rated. The colonialists of all kinds departed of their own volition because they discovered that it is no longer in their interest to stay. Why sweat when such uncle toms are falling over each other to be given a chance to serve their interests.

The only colony that kicked out and defeated the British was USA. The rest were `freed` by the master. Their IS a difference. Hence the hookers & pimps for the Bookers. Any american a candidate for that?

#82 by GhalibZaman
``You from India are perhaps not aware of this but in Pakistan this perversion is almost an epidemic. This brahmanism, an anathema to Islami values, is rampant without an iota of guilt or shame. From Ghulam Mohammed to Mushharraf this corruption & perversion is a national cancer.``
Do not call this brahmanism. This is mullahism. You fukcing mullahs have ruined your country. You mullahs wage jehad in the name of Allah and your bureaucrats and dictators wax eloquence in a foreign tongue. Great combo.
``Hindu scriptures were initially translated from sanskrit into farsi and urdu by muslims. Brahmins were not too keen to let the lower castes even listen to certain slokas. ``
You seem to be in your own world. Let me remind you that the ancient sanskrit work of Ramayana was translated into Avadh (the popular language of the time) by Tulsidas, a brahmin.
Sridhar

Your heart is in the right place Richa.

Saddam in a nasty dictator, but his people are the ones to suffer.

I certainly hope that there are other options beyond war.

Ras

...... and why the heck do the fools and their even more foolish friends want to stop this just war ? ....... this offers a chance, perhaps the last chance, to the bedouins to move out of the moarass that they have been stuck in for the past fourteen hundred years ........ as tom fridman says:

``It is not unreasonable to believe that if the U.S. removed Saddam and helped Iraqis build not an overnight democracy but a more accountable, progressive and democratizing regime, it would have a positive, transforming effect on the entire Arab world — a region desperately in need of a progressive model that works``

............ onwards to baghdad (and riyadh) !

re:#73 by GhalibZaman
English is learnt today by Indians for the same reason why Sanskrit was learnt: it improves chances of acquiring knowledge and getting respectability. Where would be IT in India without the knowledge of English. Heck, even the chinese govt is urging its citizens to learn English.
India will not lose its culture because its citizens are learning English but will do so if Indians stopped feeling proud of their heritage. There are some disturbing signs of this happening.
Sridhar

ghalibzaman:

not everything arising out of english is bad. chowk for instance, provides valuable service to us because it acts as a place where self-loathing muslims like saminashah and her multitude of admirers can come to perform mental maatams. imagine the damage these people would do to the cause of reform were they to develop the ability to communicate with most people back home.

re:#73 by GhalibZaman
I must confess i never bothered to read your posts in the past. After all this ruckus, i tried reading a few and i am convinced you have a deep seated inferiority complex. May be Shankar can analyse you better. You do seem to have a good command over English but you do not want it to be used for personal advancement? scientific advancement? I really can`t follow what your thought process is.
If you had read the history of India in the last 2000 years, there is not one India. There are several minicultures in this vast cultural mileau. English was extensively used during freedom struggle by our leaders like Gandhi and Nehru. It never crossed their minds that they were being subservient. I believe they thought of English as just another language of communication, one that is popular and used extensively all over the world (British Empire has ensured that).
I personally know 6 Indian languages and know 4 of them pretty well (English being one). Knowing many languages make you look at all languages with respect. English in India today has become a kind of link language, a language with which North still communicates with South.
Chinese, French, Germans- everyone is learning English. They too realise the importance that this language has acquired with the IT revolution.
Sridhar

#84:Dullah Bhatti

Janaaab Abdullah bhatti sahib

Panjabis, especially in Pakistani Panjab, are their own worst enemies.Expediency, pragmatism and a short-short cut to `glory` and `glamour` is for what even Allama Iqbal chastised the Panjabi-muslim. At least Sindhis, Baluchis, and Pakhtoons are free, and have always been free, to assert their place.
Translations is the way to go. Sufi Ghulam Mustafa sahib Tabbassum has done an admirable work in this regard. Such involved & tedious effort results in increasing the intellectual and cultural capital of any language.

Mistaking language `progress` with bhangraas & basants might be feel-good and but really lends false sense of achievement as far as academic profficiency & excellence is concerned. It reduces the whole endeavour to the comic & obscene and relegates it to that lowest common denominator which reduces your status to `India`s national bird`.


The so-called champions of promoting Panjabi in Pakistan are position & power seekers not much different than the wretched & despicable MQMers.

faisuluno:
The linguistic tyranny inflicted upon our rural population in all provinces, especially Panjab, is a continuation of keeping the domecstic servants` and batmans` sons out of the boardrooms and GHQs of the nation.

PS: Scottish, Irish, and welsh AND french fiercely assert---even if lapped by the english-channel waves----and therefore walk tall & head high.

English LANGUAGE must never be ignored but only to be a tool, a servant, and a handmaiden. It should be used as a weapon to pry open ``them`` rather than baring & stripping ourselves for ``their`` perusal.