Once Upon A Time: When The World Spoke Arabic

m_souza,

it appears that as per Rig Veda (one of the holy books of hinduism) all creation originated from a giant called ``Purasa``. Rig Veda describes Purasa as:

``Thousand-headed is Purusa, thousand-eyed, thousand-footed. Having covered the earth on all sides, he stood above it the width of ten fingers.``

Rig Veda further explains creation as such:

``When they divided Purusa, how many ways did they apportion him? What was his mouth? What were his arms? What were his thighs, his feet declared to be?

His mouth was the Brahman [caste], his arms were the Rajanaya [Ksatriya caste], his thighs the Vaisya [caste]; from his feet the Sudra [caste] was born.``

in my opinion, hinduism is the worst thing that could happen to any lower caste, backward caste hindu. hindu theology treats a lower caste person as a second rate human being. this bias is present in Vedas, Gita and Manu`s laws. no wonder hindu society is always divided along the lines of caste.

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ali87 and other

Of course rituals are there in every religion.

Going to Haj is itself a ritual.
Just like idols are lifeless and have no meaning of their own but people who wish to focus their prayers kindof make the idols sacred. Similarly, places and cities are not sacred unless and until we wish to believe like this so as to have a focus for our prayers.
Staunchly believing that life is incomplete without going to Makkah-Medina once in your life time is itself a rigid belief.
Throwing stones at the devil (like the ones at Mina recently) is also a ritual, muslims might love it and find it religious activity but why should non-muslims would still think it is a superstitious ritual.
Covering your head, hijaab etc are also loved by muslims but others may not think so.
Then of course, sacrificing a bakara at the time of Eid-ul-azha is strictly a symbolic ritual. Why sacrifice a poor animal who can`t protest and speak? Why not sacrifice your own children?
Washing your hands(or arms) thrice..is also a ritual

I don`t know about many others but I am sure there are more. So you guys can`t form any stereotyped impressions abt other relgions that they are more superstitious and Islam is not.

Why should any eroticism in Alif Laila be the result of the expeditions` Persian or Indian origins? ``Set in the town of Samarqand, its tales are full of adventure and freedom. Its usually young and wise heroes and powerful women characters contradict the prevailing traditional notions and allow room for daring expeditions, which probably due to their Indian and Persian origins are full of eroticism.``

>This is true that Muslims have a very fixed stereotyped impression abt >Hinduism

Those fixed stereotypes are necessary to maintain some sense of worth. Imagine accepting that one threw away diamonds for stones :(

ali87
This is true that Muslims have a very fixed stereotyped impression abt Hinduism. That it is full of rituals, without any depth.
Not at all true.
I really don`t indulge into any rituals at all and I am sure most of the muslims indulge in more rituals than me. And yet my erligion won`t punish me.
But I being a very modern person who tries to rationally analyse and criticise things before blindly following it.
I find hinduism a very deep religion .....it offers so much without really strangulating its followers, without really telling its followers to hate the `non-believers`. Like Islam, Hinduism doesn`t say that it is the best religion in the world and everthing else is bullshit and everybody else is `kafir`.
This too much of judging others ...making fun of other religions(and their rituals)...too much of high sounding opinionatedness...too much arrogance....is something I reallly dislike abt Islam, although there are many good things in it.

what is the use of following one Allah or many, if you are taught to hate its creations if they are different from you. It is beyond my understanding how can such a religion be the best(accord to you)

ali87 #214

Don`t blow up children while you are in India ;)

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#209 by jay on January 31, 2003 6:09am PT

I thought that was secular India. So if some thing is wrong in pakistans laws that means what??? They need to be fixed. anyway I dont see why you get so upset about those laws.

#210 by m_souza on January 31, 2003 6:09am PT

I wouldnt ask a new convert to go to keep going to the temple. So what is the thing about start new and disown what used to be against Islam. Islam doesnt say stop eating masla dosas. neither it says wear a arab dress. Only dress modestly.

you have been reading too much Naipaul


The bakaras that are sacrified are meant for consuption. The bood gore is not glorified. The food is shared with poor and relatives. That dear is the diffrence in rituals in Hinduism and Islam. Try to see what happens to the approx lakhs(according to a Deccan herald) of animails and birds like pegions, poultry, animals etc that are sacrificed in the yellamma festival or simialr festival? the blood is the key part of the sacrifice.


most people take criticism of certain issue like im saying that every thing is wrong with India.

To listen from me what is right with India you will have to give me a opportiunity to do so. Right now what is going on is Islam, muslim , pakistan bashing I respond to that with the facts that India or any other religon is in a similar state.

Sridhar take a break you are upset. get away from this board it is getting on your nerves. I neither hate hinduism nor hindus nor India. Im a muslim I accept Islam as it is. My contention is that Islam does not contdone rape, murder or any of the things that you accuse it of. Muslims are just as good as any one.

anway im off to India for a few weeks on a family emergnecy. most probably I will be busy for the next few weeks.

Peace

or in arabic

Salam

Aleph Null / Ali

Indian Americans did not riot on the streets and burn buses unlike the Muslim students from Jamia Millia Islamia in Dellhi. I was there that time. Why should some Hindu guys paan shop be burnt down because Salman Rushdie wrote a book? Muslims are free to not buy the book. They are free to express themselves to the publisher by writing letters or peaceful march, but not by rioting.

Same thing happened in Maharashtra after Jerry Falwell made his statement about Mohammed. Why should state buses be burnt in Maharashtra for comments an American made 10,000 miles away.

ali78 #183

Re blasphemy and the Indian Constitution. If I am not mistaken, it is illegal under the Indian Constitution to use the term `untouchable` to refer to a person or group. There are specific historical community names in Kerala for example, which if you use today, the police can register a case against you.

Similarly, I am always shocked at the use of the word `shudra` by mostly Pakistanis and perhaps some Indians on chowk because in all my life in India and among Indians(even the most caste conscious ones I can think of) I have NEVER never heard it used to refer to individuals or communities, even generically. This is because it is considered socially unacceptable among the educated Indians to use this term which has a derogatory connotation, something like `niggers`. For the purposes of discussion, the terms used to refer to generic communities are either their specific names , or generally as `forward` caste `backward` caste and Scheduled Castes/Dalits(even Scheduled Caste is becoming a bad word).

ali78, these things are a sign that Indians can voluntarily accept changes in centuries-old mindsets, a healthy sign.

#210 m_souza

Yes, its a very interesting point that pakistanis discuss strengths of islam only with respect to the arabs. As you have pointed out there was little or no arab impact on india (other than in Sindh). The main muslim invaders are Turkic (Uzbekistan) and also Pathan. These groups have no history of innovation or much scholarship at all. Their main virtue was militarism. Not surprising (``Stockholm Syndrome``?) Afghanistan and Pakistan exhibit exactly these ``virtues``. Outside of militarism and exagerated interest in past ``conquests`` these societies possess very lttle.

We all need to embrace our shared histories. There is a genuine shared culture in North India starting from around 1200-1300AD. Around this point muslim kings reasonably chose accommodation and rule over murder and destruction of the infidel (yes, there were still folks like Aurangzeb but kings are tyrants after all....).

Fortunately, in the South (as Jay has been explaining for Kerala) there was never the type of extreme and sustained violence associated with islam as in the north. Most hindu temples have survived. For the most part conversion did not come at thje point of a sword. Hence, muslim indians from the south have a much easier time seeing themselves as part of the local culture and so do hindus. It is another matter that fundamentalism of all types is on the rise....

brother Ali 87,

As a supporter of the islam in pakistan, and your comparison with hindu india, it may be useful to look at the changes in legal frame work in the last 50 years in both countries, having statarted from zero in terms of their own constitution.

Pakistan, hodood ordinance where raping needs evidence from 4 male witnesses, legalisation of honour killings ( ask pakistani friends about the honour killing in the office of Asma Jahangir in the centre of Lahore, ansk whether any one was charged), blasphemy laws..well do not forget about the sheria court to give the above rules religious sanctity.

Now the hindu india. Criminalisation of untouchability, reservations for schedule cats,...and the latest, rape victims should not be cross examined.. It is the majority hindus who supported the thousands of year old practice of hinduism to go throough legislation.

What you see in pakistan is a true islamic country in the making...and rejoice in it.

Where do somewhat recently converted muslims fit into the scheme of things? What is their history?
I think Islam orders you to totally disown it and make a new start. Otherwise Pakistanis should be feeling proud of thier ages old Hindu civilization and then feel prooud of thier recent Islamic culture(which is not really their own)

Pakistanis should read only that part of Islamic history that came to being in the subcontinent after Ghazis and Gauris invasions.

#19 by ahmadzai on January 27, 2003 10:46am PT

``True, they were your forefathers, but what`re you?
With hands clasped, you`re waiting for tomorrow)

Your essay calls for soul searching indeed. ``

Oh really!! Were Arabs reallllllly the forefathers of paksitanis? Yes indeed. You guys really need to do some soul searching. And does anyone have guts to speak the truth after dooing soul-searching?

Guys why can`t you put in simple words: ``Our forefathers were Hindus but my great great grandfather converted to Islam and we like Islam now. That`s it``

#25 by ali87 on January 27, 2003 4:20pm PT

``Nobody called themselves hindu or called themselves as following a Dharma. Just plain Rituals , Sacrifices, which kept the preistly class in power``

So you still continue to sacrifice billions of `bakras` on Bakr`Id..based on those holy rituals.

While Hindus have forgotton how to sacrifice animals(even if they occasionally did in some very ancient times) or harm them...this improvement definitely shows a progressive religion.