The Summer of ’69

tahmed

..... i understand your argument in favor of school vouchers and almost convinced myself that it was the right thing to do because it would give people in ``bad`` school districts a choice ............. but after looking at it carefully, i am convinced that it will hurt more kids than it will help and, for the most part, is a subsidy for the people like me who don`t really need it ........... even with a two thousand dollar voucher most people would not be able to afford private schools and the only people who will benefit are those who already have kids in them ..........

....... but to be honest, i almost voted for it - who doesn`t like extra money in their pocket!

Tauheed sahab: I apologise for having misunderstood you. And yes, Nazar sahab`s prurient interests are perhaps best when sublimated. . . ;)


Rsaxena: rehnay do yaar.

dost mittar #95 I think Quisling and Bose did share some commonalities: both had a fascist sympathies even before the war, and both in fact visited Germany to tie their knot with the Nazis at around the same time (1940 for Quisling, 1941 for Bose). Both were openly in favor of a dicatorial government. There were differences of course, but I think those differences were simply a reflection of different circumstances (i.e. Bose would have gotten rid of the Brits before establishing his dicatorship - if the japs had won, while Quisling got to be a fascist boss as soon as the Germans took over Norway).

He may have been a ``secular`` dictator rather than a ``religious`` dictator, but I think you will agree that if he had come to power there is no reason to believe he would have changed his philosophy and chosen democracy over fascism. Furthermore, the only way he could have militarily come to power is if the japanese had succeeded in taking over India - and in that case he would have owed his power to the japanese. The end result would have been the same as I mentioned in my earlier post.

rsaxena #88 farzana versey is routinely hounded by hindu men (I would hate to refer to people by their religion, but this is a relevant fact here) on chowk. she is called all sorts of names, and i have sometimes seen posts from three or four hindu men ridiculing her at a time. this of course is for her crime of being a muslim woman in India whose writings are critical of the behavior of hindu chauvinists in India.
i find this behavior of these scum to be the one that is truly distasteful.

tahmed:
Bose was no quisling even though he was willing to make a deal with the devil if that`s what it took to achieve India`s freedom. You wouldn`t call him a quisling if the Japanese had won, as they seemed likely to do when Bose joined them. His popularity in India rivalled that of Gandhi and Nehru and it was widely, though incorrectly, believed in India during the early years of independence that the govt. was not keen about finding his whereabouts because Nehru was afraid that if Bose returned, he will lose power. He was the genius who made urdu/hindi the language of his Azad Hind Fauj even though he was a Bengali himself. And his national anthem was also in Hindi. India`s jana gana mana has in fact the same rhyme as his `shubh sukh chain ki varsha barse`. His three top generals were a Muslim (Shahnawaz Khan), a Sikh (Dhillon) and a Hindu whose name has slipped from my mind. Shahnawaz, though a Panjabi, stayed on in India after independence.

friend #92 So you come to the rescue of a fellow Indian who has painted himself into a corner, and in the lowlife style to be expected from scum like you. You, my friend, are just one more example of the educated Indian ``man`` that I have come to understand and despise on chowk.

SameerJB:
``If I have to classify workers by professions, in Pakistan, teachers would come out near the top in honesty, punctuality, dedication, responsibility``
I am afraid that the same cannot be said of the Indian teachers any more. When education becomes nothing more than an enterprise, it is difficult for the teachers to escape the culture. Since teachers have relatively fewer avenues of making ``oopar kee aamdani``, they have found a way of pressuring their kids and their parents, even failing kids in tests, to engage them for ``private`` tutoring. These so-called private tuitions are in fact supplementary group sessions of 5, 10 or even more students who pay sizeable sums to learn what they should be doing in the regular classrooms.
I sometimes think that India has finally become a casteless society; there is only one caste in India as everyone has become a bania. And it has also become a monotheist society as they all worship the same God, or rather Godess, the godess of wealth, Lakshami.

hamidm #93 you write ``but i send my kids to private schools and still voted against school vouchers!``

I dont see why you say ``still`` rather than ``and therefore``: school vouchers mean that private schools would admit a lot more kids from all kinds of families. This would reduce a major attraction of private schools which is - lets be honest here - that they have kids from families that value education. This, as much as the lower student/teacher ratio, is what makes private school education so important. So, while I commend you in valueing your children`s education enough to send them to private schools (and I know that no one has unlimited family budgets), I dont think your voting against vouchers is a favor to kids who would then have shifted from public to private schools.

Umer Murtaza: Islam came to Iberia after the fall of Umayyids in Mesopotamia. The agriculture they learned from natives, just as in Mesopotamia and India. Name one feudal in Panjab with roots in central Asia. There is none. No Baig, Qizalbash, Mirza, Mir,......

Il-Khanate (Mongols) were not Buddhists, they believed in Sky-god with Eagle as symbol. Il Khanates quickly converted to Islam in Iran.

Ali:
No Muslim ruler of India, not even any Mughal prince is recorded to have ever set foot on any ship in the Sea. They were content with boats in the rivers. Now don`t bring up Keralite Muslims who were sea farer who came from the Arabian gulf coast side of Arabia. I mentioned Mecca and Red Sea side.

1600-1750 would be between Jahangir, Shahjahan and Aurangzeb reign. What navy and what ships? Don`t kid yourself just because these guys have beards. I guess Mohammad Shah Rangeela went on the ships and flew in air after having enough dope in his blood.

Ottoman also came late to accept naval importance. Khairuddin Barbarosa came several centuries later after the establishment of Ottoman rule while in Europe Greeks and Normans knew it before the bith of Christ. Spartans and Athenians regularly used ships to fight 300 BCE.

ali87

..... i hate to disappoint you, but there is a hawa in the us that is ``blowing the other way`` when it comes to public education and as a registered republican i guess i should be supporting it - but i don`t ............. and this might come as a surprise to you, but i send my kids to private schools and still voted against school vouchers! .....why?......... i gladly pay more than four thousand a year in school taxes even though i don`t use the schools ...... why?.......... it might be hard to understand, but i really believe that education and health-care is a citizen`s right and therefore it is the governments`s responsibility to provide both......... in a civilized society it is everyone`s responsibility to make sure that all have access to a decent education and health care ..........

............ that doesn`t sound every republican, does it?...... but then i also oppose subsidies for farmers, railroads, art galleries and welfare recepients......... you educate a person so that he can find a job, not collect welfare .........shut down the nea and let those who want to see a crucifix floating in urine pay for it ...........i also believe the government had no business bailing out chrysler and the airlines - let them go bankrupt, the ones that survive will be stronger ............ and so on

............ there is a lot of middle ground between a communist and a neo-con ideologue ...........

quoted from #10 ``most growing boys in Pakistan get to know the facts of life not by peeping at sexy naked female teachers, but (a) by experimenting with themselves or with other boys, (b) being sexually assaulted by an adult (particularly in the frontier areas).``

Tahmad`s flirting with RSaxena indicates that even old man in Pakistan try to keep learning fact of life by flirting with other boys.

Ali,

Sameer`s just like that. You can`t blame fundos. But you gotta love him for it. I remember smiling at his comment about Muslims not being agrarian people (or something of that sort) for he had completely skipped over the sophisticated farming manuals, usage of Iberian soil for figs, oranges etc. etc., the creation of aqueducts, the appreciation of different types of soils blah blah blah.

And I had a good `ol chuckle when he claimed the superiority of non-God religions over Godly ones for they had never been bad to people from other religions (…or something to that effect) whilst completely ignoring the treatment meted out to Muslims at the hand of say, the devout fundamentalist Buddhists, Abaqa and Arghun, of the Il-Khanate.

Just laugh with it and move on.
Umer M

70 by hamidm2 on June 7, 2003 10:14am PT

Thanks for the update. I wouldnt have know all this but for your enlightining briefs.

However my observation was that you would have been ranting about socialism, communism, mullahism, feudalism etc had there not been any govt schools in US.

..Meaning that your thoughts are quite slavish to offical US stand on any issue. Nothing that indicatate any thoughtful analysis.

I Choose to make this point because you were suppourting what is so obvioulsy a govt(which to US idealoges smells of communist/socialist always) enterprise.

We could if we wanted make a very good stand for govt not getting invlolved in education (from a anti communist- free enterprise) point of view(after all if posts could be privateised, railways, defence and any thing else under the sun why not schools, ie completely get out of the school business itself)

ya ne ke I wonder if the hawa in US regarding govt schools was blowing the other way the hamidm tattered flag of loyalty would have been blowing in that direction.

#81 by sameerJB on June 7, 2003 7:19pm PT

........India really lost 700 years of utilizing 2000 miles long coast to advance Indian wealth and power....

you mean to say that during the muslims did not trade by the sea? check up your facts.

Also check up your facts regarding the attempts by the ottomans to get themselves a better and bigger fleet. Nothing there points to being fearful of sea. Infact from 1600-1750 there was recognitnion that the portugese had to be contered and their larger ships had to be countered with building better fleets.

Get your facts before making assumptions.

Ansari #84 She had earlier written an article (also published on chowk) on the subject of female sexuality which I thought was quiet honest and direct. That is why i thought of her when ``consoling`` Mr. Hayat on the departure of the discussion from the subject of this article. It was indeed brave of Ms. Versey to write that article, given that women have traditionally been treated as mere objects in such matters. I do respect ms. versey for her courage in writing that article. My references to her were in no way meant to denigrate her in any way. I in fact salute her for her courage and honesty.

My purpose was more to poke fun a bit at Mr. Hayat`s prurient interests as sublimated into ``loss of innocence``, and I must say Mr. Hayat has been a good sport about it too.

rsaxena #83 Weak comeback. Points deducted. Being a generous man, I shall give you another chance. So here is the question again: had any cat fights with paki women lately?