Rightsizing of the Armed Forces

In response to Romair at # 71:

Thank you very much for a detailed reply.

You wrote:
``I think in these three years, the economy has been stabilized, Pakistan is no longer internationally isolated, the press has been freed, and Pakistan is facing (most of) its skeletons in its closets. ``

I would say:
This is what we wanted - stability and continuation of policies. For example, the areas of industrial development that the Government has chosen to be pursued as a long-term policy, were being identified by the World Bank for a long time, but no elected Government between 1988-1999 heeded the WB advice. The press is free as can be seen from harsh anti-Government articles being published in the newspapers every so often.

You wrote:
``At the same time, I wish Musharraf had gone after power groups like feudals, corrupt politicians etc., with the same zeal as he went after the maulvis and the beaurecracy....``

I would say:
I think the best strategy would have been to attack one adversary at a time. Opening too many fronts against the status quo would have added not only to the General`s problems, but to an average citizens as well. For example, if he had taken feudals head on, average citizens would have suffered at the lack of food supply. As a priority Government decided to take the restructuring and reorganization of various institutions before attacking on the social pillars of corruption.

You wrote:
``I still think, for his own good, and for the reputation of the Army, he should now retire.... I dont think the country is now going off a cliff as it was in 1999, so military rule is no longer needed.... though they will still respect him more than the other clowns like BB, NS, Altaf etc. ....``

I would say:
I don`t think for a second that we have a political leader capable enough, strong enough and resolute enough to take on the challenges that Pakistan confronts today. Any other person at this stage would need the support of military to run the WOT and yet not displease conservative segments of the society. Then there is always an impending threat of terrorists` backlash. The terrorists are currently on the run as they know that they are pitted against the army. The PML (Q) is spared of this backlash as its the military and special forces that are being perceived as real enemy by the terrorists. If military recedes, then pronouncements and actions against the terrorists would have to come on a daily basis from the elected Government and we know how well defended they are against assassinations and murders. Please recall that when in the 80s Pakistan Navy had captured a vessel of private arms and ammunition belonging to Murtaza Bhutto, his personal security guards had started taking the revenge against poor naval officers and 6 young officers were murdered before the mystery was solved. What I mean to say is that we should not be blinded at this reason why we need military working strongly with the Governments at this time. Its only the General who is earning the anger of the extremists and the elected Government is being spared.

You wrote:
``As for the Mullahs....If the currently elected mullahs outright win the next election, while the condition of the country remains the same, then I can see another coup occuring, with strong support of the USA (and ironically from the secualr Pakistanis), in around five to seven years time. ``

I would say:
Having heard of the way the campaign was run in the NWFP and Western Balochistan at least, I am sure that the Mullas capitalized on anti-American feelings. They had no agenda. That is why they have not come up with a single action after being elected to offices that would boost the living conditions of the masses. In Karachi, they have reclaimed their seats of yesteryears. In Lahore, it was an adjustment between PML N and Jamat-e-Islami. Economic factors cited by you could be real in urban centers of Karachi, Lahore and Islamabad, but not of NWFP and Western Balochistan. I am sure that MMA will not improve the economic situation of the country and at the same time will keep becoming stronger due primarily to a very ridiculous agenda of the West at play at international level.

The US and the European countries are accusing General Musharraf`s Government of various weaknesses in the hope that it will make Mullas stronger in Pakistan. If Mullas take over the country, it will provide the US a genuine reason of attacking and de-fanging Pakistan. But like Eric Margolis had once written that when the actual fight starts, it has little to do with strategy. So basically I agree with your forecast of a revolution, but to me, it would be of an entirely different dimension, not even sparing the neighborhood.

Urstruly at # 78:

``Does someone know where the Paksitan`s National Assembly is since last November? Four months have gone by and there hasn`t been a single legislative session? What the hell is going on? How the hell is country running its business. ``

Are you giving any suggestions to Pakistanis to learn from our respectable neighbors the Indians i.e. how are they running the Government in say Gujrat and hope to follow that up in other states? Are you hinting that the country be run by MMA, the honorable counterparts of Sangh parivar?

;)

Are you giving any suggestions to Pakistanis to learn from our respectable neighbors the Indians i.e. how are they running the Government in say Gujrat and hope to follow that up in other states?

As a matter of fact I am.

Are you hinting that the country be run by MMA, the honorable counterparts of Sangh parivar?


Yes I am also hinting that, though comparing MMA with Sangh Parivar is unethical and unprinicipled; but whether its MMA or Sangh Parivar in Paksitan I will kiss the mouth of an eczema infested bitch and stand by her if she stands up for the constitution and soveriegnity of Paksitan.

Ref Urstruly #83

[Yes I am also hinting that, though comparing MMA with Sangh Parivar is unethical and unprinicipled; but whether its MMA or Sangh Parivar in Paksitan I will kiss the mouth of an eczema infested bitch and stand by her if she stands up for the constitution and soveriegnity of Paksitan.]

I was under the impression you were already married... unless you now propose to cross generally accepted norms against cross-species sex. You will then be bringing new meaning to the term ``man`s best friend``.

Ref ahmadzai #82

[Are you giving any suggestions to Pakistanis to learn from our respectable neighbors the Indians i.e. how are they running the Government in say Gujrat and hope to follow that up in other states? Are you hinting that the country be run by MMA, the honorable counterparts of Sangh parivar?]

You are already running a government that is a hundred times worse than any government even by the Sangh Parivar.

If you have any doubts about it, I don`t suggest that you get a bunch of Hindus/Christians/Sikhs to set fire to a train occupied by Muslims.

Just wrap up peanuts in a sheet of paper printed in Arabic or Urdu and claim that it was given to you by a Hindu vendor and that the paper is a sheet from the Koran.

Re freeing of the press of Pakistan.
http://www.statpak.gov.pk/depts/fbs/statistics/social_statistics/newspaper_average.pdf


The combined circulation figures of daily newspapers from the Govt. of Pakistan site are as follows:
(these are circulation figures for 2000, there are no figures for 2001 and 2002).
Urdu dailies : 4.6million
English dailies : 501,643
Sindhi : 508,345

Being `freely` criticised in 500,000 odd copies of English newspapers in 140 million population doesnot constitute much of a threat.

ahmadzai #81: You seem to be a stronger supporter of Musharraf then even I am (or was for the three year period).

The Army, if it comes in, must come in when the situation is completely disastrous. That was the case in 1999, and that is why nearly every Pakistani supported the coup (except a few arm-chair revolutionaries on Chowk).

It should then work honestly to the best of its ability to stablize things. It obviously will not have the dexterity and skills of honest civilians in running a civilian enterprise, but it should do the best it can, with the help of competent civilians. Which it did this time around.

During its brief stay, it should take on every evil in the society, head-on. I don`t know why it never goes after feudals. The feudals are sh//t scared of the military (and of maulvis), becasue these are the only groups that can knock them out. Ayub and Zia`s families actually ended up joining the feudal political crowd. Luckily, Musharraf hasn`t done that. But, he didn`t take on the feudals either (until this is done, Pakistan will never progress).

After wiping out the status quo, the Army should quickly leave, and hold elections, with completely new faces, under completely new rules.

Musharraf hasn`t done this last part. And I can make a bet it will cost him. His approval ratings till the referendum were sky high in Pakistan (according to magazine surveys). Now, they are going down and down. The only two things he has going for him is that everyone knows he is scruplously financially honest and that he is still better than the other corrupt lot. If you are just better than the worst, then you don`t have much to go by, if you ask me. You are required not for your own virtues, but to keep other people`s vices in check.

The one thing Pakistan needs more than anything else is not someone who is popular when he is in power (Musharraf achieved that in the pre-referendum days). But someone who leaves when he is popular. Which Musharraf could have done also.

Pakistanis need political role models. Someone they can compare the corrupt politicians (and other corrupt Generals etc.) to and tell them, ``Woh bhi tau tha, jo imandari say kaam kar kay, voluntarily kursi chaur gaya.``

Currently, they can only say this about Jinnah. Not about any other leader, civilian or military. I think Musharraf was the best possible candidate for this. I opposed Zia, even when I was in the military. However, I supported Musharraf from the start. Primarily, because I still feel I can pick a good General from a bad one. He is the best the military has to offer, as far as dictators go. Uptil his referendum, he did everything I predicted he would do, under super-tough circumstances.

I stated he would hold elections. Which he did. I said he would go after maulvis, while others on this site tried to paint him as a mullah. Which he did. The only prediction I was wrong on was that I thought he would completely leave after three years. He has only partially left. And this is his achilles heel.

He should now resign from the military and put his name up for Presidentship. If the NA does not elect him, then he has done his share. People will still respect him. He could probably come back in five years and win an NA election in a landslide, if he is interested in Public Service. Imran Khan would have given him a position in his party (the party I support).

Eventually, Pakistanis have to pay for their own selections. Non-Constitutional govts. should only come under desparate circumstances, when the elected ruler has started storming Supreme Courts and filling Swiss Acounts. After that, they should quickly leave. Musharraf alone, regardless of how well-intentioned he maybe, cannot solve all of Pakistan`s problems. He has done his share, which was stabilization over three years. Now he needs to become a civilian.

Had I been in his shows, I would have ruthlessly wiped the slate clean in three years - gone after the feudals, mullahs, corrupt business and beaurecracy. I would have then in the final year, internally reorganized the Army. Would have dictatorially changed the Constitution, banning uniformally anyone who had been in the Assemblies before. Held a clean election. And then retired to the Boston.

Sounds like a lot. But the Army is powerful enough to do the above.

The culture, values and principles of Pakistan Army`s lower strata i.e. from a foot soldier to Lt. Colonel, are different from those who wear swords on their shoulders with a red tape on the collars. The lower strata of the Army believes in Jihad, is always ready to die for the country and Islam, committed to the defence of Pakistan`s frontiers from external and internal enemies and stands with the people of the country on every issue ranging from the restoration of democracy to the restricted role of Army in the politics.
The top brass of the Army has different priorities. The culture they inherit revolves around absolute authority. They live to capture even the slightest opportunity to overthrow the elected governments, occupy the positions like President, Governors, and Ministers, use the civilian bureaucracy as their personal servants, get expensive real-estate in posh areas of the cities, make fiefdoms in the interior of the provinces after getting huge agriculture farms free of cost or on throw away prices.
Today`s Pakistan Army has two faces - one a pro-people and the other a pro-colonial.

http://www.weeklyindependent.com/backpage3.htm

This is regarding the discussion on satellites and space programmes. There was an article recently in the New York Times that said that the Russina space program had shrunk so much that its budget was only two percent of NASA`s budget! But the more surprising thing was that NYTimes mentioned that Russia`s space budget was only 50% of India`s space program budget.
It shows how steeply Russia has fallen and how much India has risen.

In response to Romair at #87, who wrote:

``You seem to be a stronger supporter of Musharraf then even I am``.

First of all, EID MUBARAK to you and your family.

Being a nationalist from the NWFP, I think I am a supporter of General Musharraf purely from a selfish point of view in that I want Pakhtoons of Afghanistan (well, Pashtoons there) and Pakistan to be liberal, broad-minded and educated group of people, who are able to contribute positively to our respective countries and to the world as a whole. For too long, we have let ourselves ensnared in backwardness on the excuse of our love for religion. I strongly believe that the current Government can deliver that.

I hate Mullas, because they are exploiting the emotions of our people and are bent upon taking us (Pakhtoons) back to dark ages. Since at my family level I cannot do much about it, I am reclined to take an easier route of hating the enemy;)

I also dislike them for they are competent enough to destabilize Pakistan through creating anarchy and once Pakistan is destabilized, they will control a large mass of devouts, who will set out to destabilize Russia, China and India. Just imagine the population involved and the magnitude of pain that will follow. I mean all of us want to live in peace and prosperity. I don`t want to see people follow that dangerous a course, although at the moment they are set to.

My personal love for Musharraf ends here. The next part is my analysis of the events:

I bet your 3rd forecast about General Musharraf will also come true, but with a little difference. He will put off his uniform and will assume the leadership of PML Q. This will happen once the political dust settles and once he gets a firm nod from the leaders of the PML Q. Have this in writing from me. Your 3rd forecast will come out good.

As regards feudals, just take note of the labor pains of controlling Mullaism in Pakistan. I mean note all the wrath that he is earning from our far right. What you are suggesting is a course that would have doomed all his undertakings at this critical juncture. Btw, Mullaism is not as big a problem in military, and being from the army perhaps you will subscribe to this viewpoint, as we are made to believe. But feudalism is. Children of feudals are now serving at highest ranks in various services. I bet General would have gone out for getting feudals by their balls before the Mullas. Devolution of power was a step in that direction. However, just too much of sectarian killings, other terrorist acts and finally the friendly advice of Bill Clinton to Pakistanis, prompted him to go after Mullas first (on 14th August 2001 to be precise, i.e. a month before the tragic 9/11). The later event of 9/11 reinforced the need for him to continue on that path.

Taking all the evils in one go would not have been possible for the military. Taking on Mullas and feudals at the same time would have turned a large segment of top brass military officers against the well-wishers of the country within the military.

Urstruly and Harimau from 83 to 85:

No its not possible in Pakistan. We cannot learn from India and our MMA Mullas, although abhorable, are not comparable to Indian Sangh Parivar. For one, not a single leader of theirs has lead a march to bring a church or a temple down in Pakistan.

Also, the last time some of their followers were given a chance to burn sleeping Hindus, they chickened out - puck puck puck puck. Instead, they burnt a US flag down.

Finally, at the moment, they are more interested in challenging General Musharraf and PML Q rather than issuing threats to Indians of complete anhiliation and to isolate them in the world.

;)

ahmadzai #91
The comparison between MMA and Sangh Parivar led mobs is a bit disingenous.

A church or a temple or a few measly members of Pakistani minorities are small fish for MMA who for the last 25 years, have been motivating, recruiting and training fighters for the Afghan jihad. According to an estimate made a few years ago, at least 60,000 Pakistanis fought in the Afghan jihad.

A few Pakistani jihadis , imprisoned in NA prisons, when interviewed said that their leaders in Pakistan told them to go and fight the infidel Soviets who hadnot left`. Others said they joined up for Kashmir but were told by their leaders to go to Afghanistan to `train for Kashmir`.

When MMA was fighting in such wide battlefields for jihad, for so much potential ideological ground to be won stretching deep into Central Asia, and so much money pouring in from every quarter for this purpose, they occupied pride of place as spearheads of Pakistan`s foreign policy, so why the heck they would be interested in attacking at home a few Pakistani Hindus and Christians who, to save their outrage, werenot even allowed to VOTE with them?


Sangh Parivar is exactly as bad as anyone can say it is. But as for the rest of the cr_p, you can fool your fellow Pakistanis, but not many others.

My response to Sadna at # 92 is as follows:

I agree with you that Pakistanis were arrested by NA fighting needlessly in Afghanistan. But tell me should we really have believed the NA immediately after the conflict when the passions of NA were running very anti-Pakistani? If 60,000 Pakistanis were fighting in Afghanistan, NA should have allowed those arrested a POW status and some neutral body could have easily found out the truth.

I have written it before and I am repeating it. As pro-communism Tajiks and Uzbeks were being migrated out of former USSR into Afghanistan in the 70s to destabilize it and turn it into a communist country, lot of the Pashtoons were migrating out of the Tajik and Uzbek dominated lands, where they were a minority, into Pakistan. These Pashtoons tended to keep dual nationalities. In addition, the distribution of some Pashtoon tribes (Ahmadzais are also distributed almost 50-50) across the border makes it easier for these people to keep dual nationalities. If the prisoners had been interviewed by neutral bodies, they would have found out that most of them were these anti-NA Pashtoons, who wanted to settle old scores.

About the media interviews, don`t you recall how CNN and BBC were showing Afghan women as Burka cladded oppressed people and NA as heroes. Did the burka go after the Talibans? Recall what the emancipators of oppressed Afghan women like RAWA had to say about NA - that under its rule before Talibans, it had inflicted same amount of atrocities on Afghan women as had Talibans.

I am not disagreeing with you to the extent that I believe that there were some Pakistanis too, who were mis-lead into the `Jihad` by some fundamentalist Islamic parties. But I will again argue that they were a very small and an insignificant number.

As to your last sentence, I have not fooled anyone. All of my posts clearly indicate that I am dead set against MMA, which came into being last year and comprises 6 parties, including a Shia Group (please read my response to Romair at # 90). I have also expressed my opinion on Bush Administration`s recent inept measures, which are being seen as anti-Muslim, and are making MMA stronger and General Musharraf`s and an average Pakistani`s job that much more harder to curtail them. I have also expressed my reasons why Bush Admin. might be doing it. This I am doing with a clean concious - I want extremism in the name of religion to leave all Pakhtoons. I want to see ourselves as progressive people. Religious yes, but not living in dark ages in the name of a great religion.

Ref ahmadzai #93

[I agree with you that Pakistanis were arrested by NA fighting needlessly in Afghanistan. But tell me should we really have believed the NA immediately after the conflict when the passions of NA were running very anti-Pakistani? If 60,000 Pakistanis were fighting in Afghanistan, NA should have allowed those arrested a POW status and some neutral body could have easily found out the truth.]

Exactly what kind of status was to those NA and other forces` fighters who fell into the hands of the Taliban?

The Swift Sword of Death for the enemies of Taliban means that when those enemies come back into power, you are going to have the Taliban and their Pakistani brethren locked up in airless shipping containers in 120 degree heat.

If you Pakhtoons cannot put up with Hazaras and Tajiks because you are Sunni and they are Shia or because you worship Allah five times a day and you suspect they are godless Communists, then don`t ask for Geneva Convention rights when you are picked up fighting against them. Expect to get the same treatment that you gave them. It is called being paid back in the same coin.

I feel sorry for those stupid Pakistanis who went into Afghanistan even after 9-11 thinking they were going to fight the wars of 1847 when there were no Americans with daisycutters. Somebody ought to capture their mullahs and hang them from lampposts. For stupidity, not for inciting violence; one ought not to allow these mullahs to further breed their stupid genes.

General Mahmood planned to overthrow Musharraf
reported by Pakistan second largest daily newspaper (alas in Urdu) today (15/2-2003).

http://www.nawaiwaqt.com.pk/daily/feb-2003/15/ak4.htm

Filth produces filth. Intervention of the military in political affairs is not only harmful for the civil society, it is much more detrimental for the army itself. It is a matter of time that these generals will be plotting against each other, planning each other’s assassinations and cutting each other’s legs.

Please, for God sake wake up, before it is too late.

[b]Pakistani general vs. American generals[b]

AFP has reported that the Pentagon?s inspector general is investigating undisclosed allegations of improprieties leveled at US Army General Tommy Franks, the commander who would likely lead US forces in any invasion of Iraq. Currently General Franks is commanding US forces in Afghanistan.

His boss, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld expressed ``full trust, respect and confidence`` in General Franks, calling him ``and enormously talented commander and a man of the highest integrity.``

What are the charges against General Franks? According to Washington Post, the general was being investigated for abuse of office by allowing his wife sit in on meetings at which classified information was discussed, had a soldier assist her on almost full-time bases, and assigned a military bodyguard to protect her.

Pakistanis should read the charges once again and then look at their own generals. General Tommy Franks is being investigated for abuse of office; do Pakistani generals abuse their offices? He is being investigated for allowing his wife to sit in on meetings at which classified information was discussed; don?t Pakistani generals let their wives run around all over Pakistan. Inspector general is investigating General Tommy Franks for having a soldier assist his wife on almost full-time bases; don?t Pakistani generals have army of soldiers at the disposal of their wives on full-time basis to run their family chores? He is being investigated for assigning a military bodyguard to protect her; don?t our generals have bodyguards to protect their families?

This is a small point-by-point comparison between US General Tommy Franks and Pakistani Generals for which he is being investigated; otherwise, our generals abuse their offices thousand times more than General Tommy Franks has done. Pakistani generals are eating Pakistan?s economic pie hundred percent leaving nothing for the people of Pakistan. They grab best rural and urban lands to sell and make money. Pakistani generals illegally takeover Pakistan and surrender it to enemy without considering themselves liable to answer to any authority in Pakistan. They trample the constitution of Pakistan and go scot-free. They hold fraudulent referendums and become illegal presidents and nobody investigates them. They crown criminals in positions of responsibility without fear of investigation.

Indeed they are very lucky generals. They are generals of the poorest country in the world but they are on the top in the list of richest generals in the world.

Poor General Tommy Franks just picked up a few minor things from Pakistani generals and he is in hot waters. Perhaps in the company of Pakistani generals he forgot that he was not a Pakistani but an American general. Therefore, he did not have the luxury to have a soldier assist his wife or provide her a bodyguard.

General Tommy Franks also forgot that Pakistani generals are real generals whereas he is a fake general. Better he should learn from his first investigation and he should not make such mistake again!

Courtesy
A Fauji`s Diary
http://www.pakistanweekly.com
Saturday February 08, 2003