One Day in The Life of a (legal) Alien

To all the people who are advocating peace and friendship between Pakisan and India: Wake up and smell the coffee!

I think a more pragmatic approach would simply concentrate on ending the hostilities between the two nations -- nothing more, nothing less. This would be a first step. Friendship would probably follow in about two to three generations, but lets not get our hopes to high on this account. Right now, I really don`t see a peace constituency on either side of the border. Besides, just like the arjuns of India accuse most Pakistanis of being `closet jehadis`, its not difficult to sense an exponential increase in the ranks of the `closet modis` of India. Our respective generations simply have too much baggage to come to terms with each other. Before we can start being friends, we need to stop being enemies. A good start would probably consist of two steps:

From the Pakistani perspective: Forget about Kashmir! Our own house is burning today. Let`s concentrate on ``us`` first. We also need to recognize that Pakistan is a much smaller country (in terms of size, population and economy) and, therefore, its suicidal to try and achieve parity with India. India, due to its sheer size, will always play a bigger role in South Asian and world politics. This should not be turned into an inferiority complex the likes of which plagues our armed forces today. We are also lagging behind in most aspects. But, lets not get all worked up when an insecure pissant like arjun or jay tries to rub it in our face. And most of all, keep our national interest first and foremost. This means no support for Jihadis or Arabs in the name of Islam, Kashmir, Bosnia, Iraq or whatever.

From the Indian perspective: For God`s sake, stop whining about TNT and the creation of Pakistan! Pakistanis born after 1947 have no recollection of a common past and no aspirations to become Indians despite all the hardships we have to endure by virtue of being Pakistanis. We are like the offspring of two brothers who went their separate ways once they became adults. Yes, we may share similar traits, history and culture, but that doesn`t mean we have to live in the same house. And more importantly, we don`t have to be enemies because of this. (Besides, joint family system is not so romantic after all :) ) Maybe, TNT was a bad idea, but what`s done is done. Even the US has committed attrocities against the native Americans, but that doesn`t mean that Americans should denounce their citizenship based on some ugly aspect of their past. While Indians are busy singing the familiar ``cross-border terrorism`` tunes, secularism is being raped in their own backyard in broad daylight. Alas, most Indians are too obsessed with Pakistan to notice this disturbing development in the Indian psyche.

ana_dobarah (#3): Wasn`t much of an experience - boring as anything really.

SaraJ (#2): Thanks! And keep up the writing.

jay (#7)
Shame? At being Pakistani? Or any nationality? Interesting concept...

hrrehman (#10)
Are you for real? Move to South Africa immediately. Preferably twenty years in the past, if a time machine is handy.

FJ (#18)
Hmm, I don`t recall anybody calling me ``sir.`` Don`t know where you got that from.

subuhi (#15)
No worries, Boston`s the same as always. The Charles is grimy as ever, but the T`s a dollar now! Your nostalgia is on firm ground :)

#40 Saminasha

Fortunately, it is rare to see the kind of claptrap you have written voiced in public. What the US goverment is doing is, in fact, long overdue. It is obvious to even to the feeble minded that knowledge where foreign visitors are is one key to controlling borders and terrorism. US rules for visitors and students are MUCH less intrusive than rules in most other countries.

As I have said before, indians should support these rules and carefully avoid be co-opted by islamist supporters and anti-american radicals such as yourself. The biggest danger is that a pakistani/arab terrorist trades on physical similarities with indians and is able to acquire an indian passport which he/she then uses for their nefarious ends. I was pleased to see that India Abroad included several articles recently that made this same point.

...great piece, zia...loved the way you`ve evoked dry wit as a shield...i`d ask you to interact but as usual the pak vs india pissing contest seems to be replaying for the nth time, so i can see why you`re probably staying away...

These kinds of policies will be considered the beginning of the US govt`s ``bad faith`` relationship with a considerable population of its immigrants-South Asian/Pakistani/Arab immigrants. While our various local and national govt has debated about how to exactly exploit the labor of undocumented and documented workers without actually ensuring them political or economic parity with the average US citizen, these policies will raise anti immigrant law to a whole new low. The US will lose out in many ways; 1. the consequences of bad faith against people worldwide who want to work here and respect US law 2. the loss of valuable workers in all socio-eco levels 3. a grip on reality-i.e. unlike the claims some of our dear idiots on Chowk make- Americans, like Indians and Pakistanis need to be deprogrammed from their bogeymen conjuring tendencies by actually living with the people US policy is currently are ``systemizing``, 4. the attempt at quashing plurality and diversity of opinion, etc, etc, etc,
In other words, should you need it spelled it out for all y`all in the US: This Is Not Good For You Either....

SYNCHRONICITY,

Cooperation with pakistan is the most desirable outlook for india. A few weeks ago, iranian PM was in india, talking about overland pipe line through pakistan. For the firat time in history gas pipe lines blew up in pakistan.

Last week, at a joint afghan-pakistan meet, they proposed a pipe line for turmanistan gas. Now the poor afghan minister is dead, air crash in clear weather. This is called synchronicity.

It is good to know that still a few indians eat a lot of lotus. At least vajpaye and maost of the indians are clear, conflict with pakistan is a jihadic frontier event, are at last seeking israeli help. Only hope is for another major terror attack and with pak fingerprints all over. Then it will be liberation time for pakistan, just like how it has come at last for afghanistan, and soon for iraq.

Completely isolating pakistan is the right action, anything else will only delay the unavaoidable. The lelection of MMA and how mushy has engineered it is the confirmation of the jihadic control of the military.

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#34 AlephNull


Thank you for the clear analysis. BTW, when I was in Calcutta this winter an IIM_C professor published a study explaining that the loss to the indian economy due to constraints on trade and infra-structure WITHIN india was of the order of 100 billion dollars. Tells us where we need to be putting all our efforts! Not on cosying upto a military-run near-dictatorship which is more and more recognized to be the ``epicenter of terrorism``.

amit #30
And as far as Hindu-Muslim relations go, Pakistani Muslims wrote themselves out of this equation through the Partition deal in 1947, now there remain only Indian Muslims and their aspirations/advancement in this equation.

Hence India needs to concentrate on making sure Indian Muslims get their full due as Indians, beginning with what is promised under the Indian Constitution.

Any airtime given to Pakistani Muslims demands under the heading `Hindu-Muslim issues` or `unfinished business of Partition` is equivalent to robbing Peter(Indian Muslims) of their due to pay Paul(Pakistani Muslims) beyond their due.

amit #30

{Idon`t see why India or Pakistan have to play second fiddle to each other. We can be equal partners, can`t we?}

Most certainly not. Depending on the metric, India is between three and one hundred times larger than Pakistan. Quantitative equality therefore makes no sense. Yet parity with India has always been a goal of the Pakistani establishment - I think it mutated out of the original Muslim League demand for quantitative parity with everyone else. It is interesting to read the airy fantasies of a reconfigured `South Asia` that emerge from the likes of Romair - they are always designed to boost Pakistan`s influence far beyond what they can command on their own strength.

{Look, today India is forging strategic alliances with Iran and Afghanistan, which are both conservative Islamic countries. Similarly, Pakistan has a strong alliance with China, which is a non-muslim, communist nation.}

India has no fundamental differences with Iran or Afghanistan. Pakistan on the other hand is founded on the notion that Indian Muslims do not need to live on terms of individual civic and legal equality with non-Muslims and need not try. It is impossible for India to peacefully coexist with this ideology, and criminally foolish to strengthen those elements of Pakistani society - military and Islamists - who man the citadel of this ideology.

No constructive relationship with Pakistan is possible as long as their state ideology remains unchanged. I do not see that happening soon, or the jihad machine being dismantled. India has a very limited ability to positively influence political developments in Pakistan. The one thing India should not do - for the good of her own citizens, and incidentally also for the sake of real democracy in Pakistan - is give any credibility to elements of Pakistani society who are intrinsically hostile to India. If any business is to be done with Pakistan, it should only be with a genuine democratically elected Pakistani government, if and when it emerges. That of course rules out the fraudulent Musharraf/Jamali dispensation.

amit #32

{You can contrast this with the past, when we were an economic powerhouse and the rest of the world wanted to come to India. I know that the Indian economy is in relatively better shape, but it is far, far away from its full potential. An Indo-Pak patch-up will not remove all these problems, but it will be a step in the right direction for both countries.}

Indians ended up in a shambles precisely because in the past they could not effectively control the terms under which outsiders, from Central Asians to Europeans arrived in India. India should see that that never repeats. The Pakistani state is the civilizational successor of the Central Asian marauders. A patch-up with them is impossible until their fundamental ideology changes.

amit #31

{If we are all worse off, given the demands of defence expenditure, loss of blood and treasure etc., shouldn`t both sides think of a new start ?}

I want to reiterate that India doesn`t stand to gain much from a peace dividend. Curbing corruption losses from development expenditure will make a far larger difference. Pakistanis as a whole may gain proportionately more from not being parasitised by their ruling army - but the army will not let that happen.

Re:ajeet
I am all for smart, educated people moving to the US for higher education and then making their mark in the US and/or investing back home. That is a healthy trend that strengthens India and raises our profile in the world. What I find terrible, are the young, uneducated or marginally educated people who cannot go to the west by regular means. They will try all kinds of methods, including paying smugglers by land or sea to reach the west. One person even tried to hide in the cargo hold of an airplane. Many of them die in tragic circumstances or suffer tremendous indignities.
Why do these people risk their life and limb to move ? The reason is that they do not have a decent life back in India or Pakistan. Perhaps, they did not have the brains or the money to get a good education. We don`t know but the fact is that they would rather die trying to move to the west than make it in their home countries. That speaks volumes about all our proud accomplishments. You can contrast this with the past, when we were an economic powerhouse and the rest of the world wanted to come to India. I know that the Indian economy is in relatively better shape, but it is far, far away from its full potential. An Indo-Pak patch-up will not remove all these problems, but it will be a step in the right direction for both countries.

amit #31

You are now raising a completely different argument, a cunning bogeyman to distract us from the naivete of your original argument.
No one
has argued that India and Pakistan should attack each other with nuclear weapons. You are now pretending that I have made such a recommendation !!

You have argued that the two sides should work together to form an economic union etc. Anyone with even a modest amount of information knows that such an eventuality is at least 50 years out. What is possible is what has been offered 10 times by the indian goverment --- indeed, by that Atal Behari Vajpayee personally. Advance trade issues, freeze the kashmir dispute and move on. None of that has come to anything. Why?

Why is it that the indian goverment has been able to flexibly meet every insurgency --- from the Nagas to the Tamils (not an insurgency but a broad movement in the 60s), from the Mizos to the Gorkhas but unable to settle the Kashmir insurgency? The answer is $100/million per year routed from the muslim world to India in the form of the jehaidis and incubated in Pakistan. BTW, these figures are taken from the ``Daily Times`` a well known Pakistani daily.

Wake up and look at the real world. In the best case, a cold peace may be possible between the two countries once the Pakistani military has been sized down and Musharraf removed from the scene. My guess is that this cannot happen for another 5 years. It would involve a lot of restraint and enormous effort on both sides. Suggesting anything else is deeply unrealistic.

Much more likely is a long US - USSR type stalement for another 10-20 years while Pakistan is gradually outspent and their militarism overwhelms their economy. And, yes, it will also lead to a more brutal and militarized india. But what are the realistic choices?

Re:pmishra2
Some day in the future, the enmity of India and Pakistan will end, simply because we will all get tired of that BS. The question is how long it will take before we come to our senses. Today, there is a lot of anger in India at Pakistan`s jihadi policies and Pakistanis are sore about 1971, Kashmir etc. However, the question to ask is whether these hostilities are making us better off or worse off ? If we are all worse off, given the demands of defence expenditure, loss of blood and treasure etc., shouldn`t both sides think of a new start ?

Re: alephnull
I don`t see why India or Pakistan have to play second fiddle to each other. We can be equal partners, can`t we? Look, today India is forging strategic alliances with Iran and Afghanistan, which are both conservative Islamic countries. Similarly, Pakistan has a strong alliance with China, which is a non-muslim, communist nation. So if we can bond with muslim countries and Pakistan can bond with non-muslims, why the heck can`t we get try to forge a new relationship ?
I agree with you that Pakistan is paying a price for its jihadic policies. However, the tide within Pakistan is turning against that. They seem to be realizing that those policies don`t work in today`s world. In spite of all our past anger, if the other side starts changing, shouldn`t we keep an open mind about the future ?

arjun...
hello???? i didn`t say indians were in the same boat...my whole point was that gloating and triumphalism such as you and your friend indian do really don`t behoove you..but you don`t give a rat`s ass anyway so what`s the point. just keep on making your idiotic blanket statements about `us Pakis` ....since that is all your participation on chowk really pathetically consists of anyway. And next time you refer to me in `you Pakis`...kindly take note of the fact that i`m against what is happening in Kashmir, i refuse to be sucked into the abyss Pakistan has flung itself into, and I`m not a big fan of the RSS and BJP with their church burnings and violence against minorities either. So next time you address a post to me...either leave me and my like-minded friends here out of `you Pakis` or better yet...don`t address a post to me. Thank you!