One Day in The Life of a (legal) Alien

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Indian?`` Familiar question-in-a-word.


``No, I`m from Pakistan.`` Familiar answer-in-a-phrase.


``Pretty much the same actually,`` I add after a pause.

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Pakis, Please do us a favor. At INS office dont malign our identity. We are different. We are respected you are suspected. US has ultimately done a justice to us Indians.

Dear Indian #17,
It is not time to score any points. We are also equally suspect in the eyes of average american. they don`t know and can`t recognize any ethnicity beyond their front-yard.

They called you ``Sir``? Impressive.

Sorry to break into this thread.

Latest news England beat Pakistan by 112 runs.

{we are respected, but you are suspected}

---why don`t you tell that to the Sikh family in Arizona who lost a loved one, or Sikhs around the U.S. who have suffered because of the inability or ignorance of certain people in terms of ethnicity. Your triumphalism makes you just as much an ignoramus as some of these folks who supposedly respect you.

Great factual report!

It is just a sign of these times but

I only expect things to get worse

before they get better.

Ras

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Re:ana_dobarah #21
It is sad that Indians and Pakistanis always gloat at each other`s misfortune. No wonder, we were conquered by outside forces in the past and get kicked around by everybody today. A handful of turks or brits would thrash the entire subcontinent and we would just let that happen. Earlier individual kingdoms enjoyed each other`s misfortune, even encouraged it. Today, India and Pakistan are carrying on with the same tradition. What a shame !!
If Pakistanis are being targeted today, what is the guarantee that India will not make the list tomorrow ? A more fundamental question is why do our young and talented people try to leave at the slightest opportunity and subject themselves to such humiliation ? The reason is because we have made a mess in the subcontinent, our economies are terrible and people are desperate to get out. Every day you hear of young Indians and Pakistanis hiding in some container or being smuggled somewhere in Europe. Imagine for a moment, if you had peace and prosperity in the subcontinent, with India and Pakistan as allies, not enemies. What a formidable combination that would be !! No one would dare look down upon us. We could open up trade and commerce between South Asia and Central Asia. We could even become a potential superpower combo. Heck, once upon a time, it was the goras who were trying to come to India and not the other way round. Why can`t we see that we are in a zero sum game here ?

Amit # 24

That is the silliest argument that I have seen on the chowk. People all over the world jump at the chance of moving to US, because it is an economic powerhouse. It has nothing to do with Indo-Pak enmity. Also there is nothing wrong with desi moving to us. Most of the advances made by India are because of the immigrents.

Even if India and Pak patched up today, it will make very little difference to India`s economy. If GOI keeps working diligently on raising the rate of literacy and improving the infrastructure and continues the open policy on business, India will do well. It may be a long way off but if Indian economy become comparable to Europe of even Australia, you will see reverse immigration to India.

amit #24

{Imagine for a moment, if you had peace and prosperity in the subcontinent, with India and Pakistan as allies, not enemies. What a formidable combination that would be !! No one would dare look down upon us. We could open up trade and commerce between South Asia and Central Asia. We could even become a potential superpower combo.}

That will not happen with Pakistan as presently constituted simply because they are unwilling to play second fiddle to India. Further, the boons of a peace dividend for India are vastly overrated. There is no reason to believe that any of India`s social dysfunction would disappear rapidly even if Pakistan were to vanish from the map. As for Central Asia, Pakistan`s autocratic rulers would love nothing more than to get rich by levying tolls on trade, without becoming a productive country themselves, and without such inconveniences as democracy. India should never permit this to happen. As for becoming a superpower, India has a better chance by far without the Pakistani albatross.

amit #24

{If Pakistanis are being targeted today, what is the guarantee that India will not make the list tomorrow ?}

There is no guarantee - the future is indefinite, anything can happen. And in fact, Indians and other nationalities have already suffered and continue to suffer occasional indignities and worse for what is clearly not their doing. See for instance:

http://www.rediff.com/us/2003/feb/23ajit.htm

That said, there is an clear causal connection between jihadic policies chosen, with clear intent and due deliberation, by Pakistan`s rulers in the last quarter century, and the attention that Pakistanis have been getting today. Indians, including Indian Muslims, are not seen in the same way because they plainly are far, far, less likely to be part of the jihadic enterprise. Uncle Sam is often slow on the uptake but he does eventually figure out who has really been up to no good.

There is of course no perfect justice in this world. Clearly many hardworking honest Pakistanis are being made to pay for the sins of their delusional rulers. Nevertheless, it does seem that the current American policies have finally begun to extract a price from the elite class of Pakistan who as a group are most culpable for their country`s tribulations. It is time they learnt that their actions have consequences which they cannot escape indefinitely.

Is it just me, or is there a upsurge in the number of ``south asians`` after 8/11? Amusing to hear that once on the INS office, ``pakistanis are sort of like indians``. Talk about expediency...


Amit #24

YOur sentiments are admirable. Many of us start from the point you have articulated. It takes only a small amount of research (and occassional reading of ``liberal`` papers like Dawn) to realize that such a viewpoint is not supported by history or facts. I suggest you make the investment of research in this space, rather than generate these vacuous feel-good statements.

There is an on-going effort to implicate all ``brown folks` into a knee-jerk anti-US posture. I think it is very important for indians to avoid this type of collectivism. It is a clever trick on part of islamist sympathizers and traditional anti-american activists to try to co-opt us.

Instead, we need to deepen and broaden awareness of the ``indian`` brand. It will not always be easy (e.g., some post 9/11 violence against sikhs and indians) but we need to educate people about the differences between indians and pakis/arabs. Fortunately, with increasing commercial ties, impact of yoga, indian film and food, knowledge of Mahatma Gandhi etc. this is a task that is getting easier.

arjun...
hello???? i didn`t say indians were in the same boat...my whole point was that gloating and triumphalism such as you and your friend indian do really don`t behoove you..but you don`t give a rat`s ass anyway so what`s the point. just keep on making your idiotic blanket statements about `us Pakis` ....since that is all your participation on chowk really pathetically consists of anyway. And next time you refer to me in `you Pakis`...kindly take note of the fact that i`m against what is happening in Kashmir, i refuse to be sucked into the abyss Pakistan has flung itself into, and I`m not a big fan of the RSS and BJP with their church burnings and violence against minorities either. So next time you address a post to me...either leave me and my like-minded friends here out of `you Pakis` or better yet...don`t address a post to me. Thank you!

Re: alephnull
I don`t see why India or Pakistan have to play second fiddle to each other. We can be equal partners, can`t we? Look, today India is forging strategic alliances with Iran and Afghanistan, which are both conservative Islamic countries. Similarly, Pakistan has a strong alliance with China, which is a non-muslim, communist nation. So if we can bond with muslim countries and Pakistan can bond with non-muslims, why the heck can`t we get try to forge a new relationship ?
I agree with you that Pakistan is paying a price for its jihadic policies. However, the tide within Pakistan is turning against that. They seem to be realizing that those policies don`t work in today`s world. In spite of all our past anger, if the other side starts changing, shouldn`t we keep an open mind about the future ?

Re:pmishra2
Some day in the future, the enmity of India and Pakistan will end, simply because we will all get tired of that BS. The question is how long it will take before we come to our senses. Today, there is a lot of anger in India at Pakistan`s jihadi policies and Pakistanis are sore about 1971, Kashmir etc. However, the question to ask is whether these hostilities are making us better off or worse off ? If we are all worse off, given the demands of defence expenditure, loss of blood and treasure etc., shouldn`t both sides think of a new start ?

amit #31

You are now raising a completely different argument, a cunning bogeyman to distract us from the naivete of your original argument.
No one
has argued that India and Pakistan should attack each other with nuclear weapons. You are now pretending that I have made such a recommendation !!

You have argued that the two sides should work together to form an economic union etc. Anyone with even a modest amount of information knows that such an eventuality is at least 50 years out. What is possible is what has been offered 10 times by the indian goverment --- indeed, by that Atal Behari Vajpayee personally. Advance trade issues, freeze the kashmir dispute and move on. None of that has come to anything. Why?

Why is it that the indian goverment has been able to flexibly meet every insurgency --- from the Nagas to the Tamils (not an insurgency but a broad movement in the 60s), from the Mizos to the Gorkhas but unable to settle the Kashmir insurgency? The answer is $100/million per year routed from the muslim world to India in the form of the jehaidis and incubated in Pakistan. BTW, these figures are taken from the ``Daily Times`` a well known Pakistani daily.

Wake up and look at the real world. In the best case, a cold peace may be possible between the two countries once the Pakistani military has been sized down and Musharraf removed from the scene. My guess is that this cannot happen for another 5 years. It would involve a lot of restraint and enormous effort on both sides. Suggesting anything else is deeply unrealistic.

Much more likely is a long US - USSR type stalement for another 10-20 years while Pakistan is gradually outspent and their militarism overwhelms their economy. And, yes, it will also lead to a more brutal and militarized india. But what are the realistic choices?