Islam in Crisis (part 1)

rashid:

…"an abdication of intellectual responsibility``…directly lays the blame at the Muslims…perhaps it would be better had you replaced Islam in Crisis with Muslims in Crisis…

…you have identified the fault lines …will look forward with interest to the parts to follow…specially on your suggestions to get out of the hermeneutic quagmire…

..of the the three themes you have identified, “…the status of the Quran, the ‘madrasa’ system of education, and nostalgia for a past golden age…” the latter two are directly related and proportional to the lack of economic and political avenues available to the masses…and are one and the same…in simpler words…the worse the conditions are for the practitioner the better the grounds for the growth of orthodoxy and fundamentalism

rgds,

t

Well done!

I particularly appreciated the example of anti Semitism in the Catholic Church and how this ``principal`` manifested itself in state policy.

Very thorough and well intentioned article. I also look forward to reading the next part of it.

temporal:
I would rather agree with the author in saying about Islam in crisis instead of Muslims in crisis. The solution to Islam in crisis is perhaps reinterpretation or selectively following parts of it as author has mentioned vis-a-vis Quran but the solution to Muslims in crisis could easily be suggested as `stop being a Muslim` and the crisis will disappear. You know that is not going to happen except for few individuals.

I also diagree about lack of economic and political avenues availabilty as source of madrassah and infatuation with the mythical past. It is chicken and egg situation. The lack of economic opportunities and political suffocations are the result, to me, and not the solutions of madrassah and infatuation. Muslims are not the only ones who lack economic opportunities. Despite all the hoopla lately, the economic opportunities for average Indians are no better than Pakistanis but Hindu madrassah and glorious mythical past are rather new things in Hinduism - since Sangh parivar. China was also no different, North Korea and Mayanmar are no different. They can as justifiably blame economic exploitation and imperialism for their plight but have not resorted to terrorist activities against USA.

Madrassahs exist in lot most affluent Iran for a long time with a per capita at least 5 times that of Pakistan. Even more richer Saudi Arabia also have Wahabi madrassahs with their blind sheijh Abdul Aziz bin Baz becoming the head of amdina University. I seriously doubt that Muslims problems are so closely related to lack of economic opportunities.

A highly specialized surgeon or a retired general is hardly economically deprived individual. Yet, they treated OBL and other Al Qaeda clandestinely and retired generals like Hamid Gul openly support jihad and madrassah culture.

There has to be something inherently wrong with Islam when desi Muslims were wishing for Islamic Khilafat despite Kamal Ataturk in Turkey popularly ending it. There has to be something inherently wrong if retired general Mirza Aslam Beg still supports Khilafat for Ummah in his speech in Washington.

Brilliant! People like Mr Talib are Islam`s last hope.

Excerpts:
//...Rethinking the institutional status of the Quran is of prime importance. This is not simply a question of finding a verse in the Quran that suits the apologist’s purpose...//

Exactly. Apologists like tahmed and others should take note.

Rashid Talib: Excellent article. It is indeed time that muslims stopped looking at the rear-view mirror, and stopped glorifying past muslim rulers (INCLUDING the first four caliphs). They have no standing in islam, and their form of government was primitive compared to the fine examples of modern democracy and democratic ideals.
PS: I wonder what you think of my response to mohar11 regarding the overall spirit of the Quran vs. isolated verses, incidentally, should you care to provide your views.

mohar11 #4 I agree with the excerpt from this article that you provide about the Quran, i.e. not to take a single verse out of context. I have always emphasized that the context one should look at is the over-all spirit of the Quran, and that the over-all spirit is one of peace, mercy, fairness, respect for all faiths and the equality of all individual, male or female, rich or poor, muslim or nonmuslim.
I suggest YOU take note of this, and try and shed your prejudices about muslims and islam. (and please lets not start an argument on this. if you find it too hard to shed your prejuedices, that is fine and I have no desire to try and convince you otherwise).

the solution to Muslims in crisis could easily be suggested as `stop being a Muslim`
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``We all live in Islam, whatever form we choose to encourage ourselves.`` (Goethe, Letter to Adele Schopenhauer, 19.9.1831, WA IV, 49, 87)

Sameer, how can one stop living in islam, pls. enlighten...

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#4
mohar and RT, pls. enlighten us with regards to reformation in the Quran, and try to be specific... If you allow me I can point to some areas of the Quran that I would like to see your comprehension/critique of :

1. unity, i.e., rejection of duality and materialism(dialectic etc.)
2. justice at micro(personal) and macro(social) level
3. trends of history and lessons that need to be drawn from them
4. ethics
5. belief system (angels, books, qayamat)
6. rituals

hopefully we`ll hear some concrete stuff in the second part..

Bhitai: That is what I exactly meant. since Muslims can not be stopped from being a Muslim, therefore it can not be considered Muslims in crisis or in other words, there is no solution. That is why, the title is apt as Islam in Crisis.

I have stopped living in Islam by not following it, by not believing in god and by start liking another non-theistic religion.

tahmed:
[one should look at is the over-all spirit of the Quran, and that the over-all spirit is one of peace, mercy, fairness, respect for all faiths and the equality of all individual, male or female, rich or poor, muslim or nonmuslim]

Why then one has to read more than 1000 pages if this is the conclusion? I can very well accept all of this statement without reading Quran.

#7 Bhitai

``We all live in Islam, whatever form we choose to encourage ourselves.`` (Goethe, Letter to Adele Schopenhauer, 19.9.1831, WA IV, 49, 87)

This is what is called the shameless misuse by Muslims of the generosity of nonMuslims.

#11
no_more

I`m glad you`re trying to learn to write.. pls. keep trying..

#10
I have stopped living in Islam by not following it, by not believing in god and by start liking another non-theistic religion.
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so apparently the concept of Tawheed (Unity) doesn`t make sense to you anymore.. I don`t know if it`s relevant here, but would defintely like to know the gist of your thought process that led you to give up Unity in favor of other doctrines(atheism,dualism,pantheism...or just taking it easy-ism)..

Superb piece. Excellent Analysis. Extremely well-written.

Talib - a very good article - for we moderate/secular Muslims

But if someone thinks that the fanatics can be put down by logic or rationality, he/she is living in a fool`s paradise.

I never get into an orguement on religion because the other starts quoting Arabic and tries to take me on a tangent;

My astand is simple : ``It is my belief and my intrerpretation and that is your belief and your intrepretation. And we both have a right to it``.

All of us are witness to those crazy TV shows where believer of one religion is trying the prove the other wrong.

Some good points added to my arguement armoury are:

a) Details in Quran are time-specific but the spirit is eternal. This is actually true for all religions. And all relgions preach goodness.

b) There are no good old time. In fact, all good old times are mostly a result of fading memories and nostalgia. (my school/academy days, one example)

c) The Christians also mistreated the Jews.


As for the Madressas, the Chinese ban religious education until age 18. First get the contemporary education and when the mind is mature, learn about religion. Sounds very logical and sensible.

I remeber as a small child going every Friday to a mosque where the Mulla was called Koharay Shah (Axe Shah). He was fiery and volatile and got one into a frenzy.

Once the missionaries came into our area and were distributing some literature. Koharay Shah had gotten me so worked up against other religions that I took the Literayure, tore it and ran away.

I was bigotted and it was a shameful act by me. So keep the kids away from the fury of religion the type our Mullas preach.

Well-written piece Rasheed Talib Sahib.

It appears that Islam is not in crisis but that some Muslims always are.

I firmly believe that an intra-Muslim dialogue needs to happen first

before we embark on a journey into our relationship with other religions.

Islam is not in danger but the grip of the Mullah just might be

threatened, which could actually be a welcome sign.


Ras