Music in Pakistan

hamid_81 #40
It only shows that we should not try to make gods out of ordinary human beings. Both Indians and Pakistanis have a tendency to find a hero and than idolize him/her as possessor of all virtues.
Ravi shankar is a great musician. He will not become ``greater`` musician by claiming part of her ``daughter`s`` fame. Still majority(all?) of south asian news papers sang eulogies to him by writing about his connections to Norah Jones.
Same tendency also results in everyone demonizing same heros if they fail on any count.

harimau at # 36:

``Quite a few universities in India offer degrees in music, meaning Classical music. None of this is due to pressure by Classical musicians. It is the duty of the universities to offer diverse programs of study to the student body.``

I was writing from the point of view of an educational system failing to give due respect to performing arts. In Pakistan an example can be drawn from environmentalists. Pakistan`s educational system now includes courses or at least topics of environmental conservation. This is due to the efforts of WWF, IUCN, Pakistan Conservation Foundation, etc. who constantly lobbied to get the field covered in one way or the other in Pakistan`s elementary and secondary level of education.

Another example is envronmentalists` successfully lobbying to get a Masters program started in Environmental Engineering at NED University, Karachi.

#37 by Saminasha
Samina Shah Sahiba!
Pandit Ravi Shankar and Ustad Ali Akbar Khan are extremely notorious of having children in every part of the world. Wherever they went on tours they made sure to impregnate a woman. Anoushka and Norah know each other very well. If you go to this website, www.anoushkashankar.com, you will find some pictures of them together. It really amazes me how Panditji finally settled down to teach Anoushka. He has hardly ever spoken to any of his other siblings. I guess it is the need in him to emphasize upon the world how great a musician he was after he is gone, in case it forgets.

MIELD FARSHAL EXPOSED

Our resident field marshal quotes this guy as a symbol of neutrality, unbiasedness yada yada ...... And this charlatan is BRIAN CHOUGLEY.
GENTLEMEN, OPEN YOUR EYES AND READ THIS PIG BELOW AND ....



http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_26-2-2003_pg3_2

Pakistan is on a winner’s wicket. India has courageously refused to back the Bush war. So, obviously, President Pervez Musharraf must join the war party. His price should be an immediate demand by the US that all Kashmir should be ceded to Pakistan. (Get it in writing.) Not only will Mr Bush teach India the lesson that “You are with us or against us” but his action will add enormously to tension in the subcontinent and probably cause major conflict. Cool and awesome.

Ref Androscoggin #33

[27 by jay on February 24, 2003 7:09am PT
Norah Jones takes Grammys by storm

WASHINGTON: Sitar maestro Pandit Ravi Shankar’s American daughter Norah Jones won a record-equalling eight Grammy Awards on Sunday to lend the music world’s biggest night a light Indian note
-------------------------------------------------------------------

ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF INFLATED BOOK KEEPING HABIT OF HINDIANS.

Everything is Indian .........when only 2/3 of india is BHARAT ...... ]

Hasn`t the other 1/3 defined itself to be ~India? So why this late realization that Pakistan is also historically part of the land called India?

Jaya Sahib,

Actually Norah Jones and her sister are the stuff of high mythology; two sisters who are the daughters of a renown genius, both very talented and enjoying some degree of success. Ravi Shanker`s daughter born into wedlock is distinguishing herself as a sitarist while Norah has said that her father has not been any presence in her and her ma`s life really...Shankar Sahib has not handled this one well...I wonder if the two young women have met?

Ref ahmadzai #35

[Also, I believe that if the classical musicians were united in their cause, they could have easily made representations for including classical music in the course offerings in one of our universities.}

Quite a few universities in India offer degrees in music, meaning Classical music. None of this is due to pressure by Classical musicians. It is the duty of the universities to offer diverse programs of study to the student body. In fact Classical music is likely to attract less than 1% of the students that Engineering attracts but that hasn`t prevented universities from offering both.

Hamid Mahmood at # 16:

``The classical musicians have been keeping their knowledge in secret because the people don`t want it. If the people want the knowledge they should go and ask for it. If then they don`t get it then I can understand that it is the fault of classical musicians. ``

I regret responding to your message with delay.

I think that the people who want the knowledge are approaching the classical musicians. Tina Saani has done it in 80s and Raheem Shah has done it in this century to give you two examples. My point was that classical musical schools have not been opened by any Ustaad in visible areas to get public attraction. I mean if I am interested in learning guitar, why should I have to look in nooks and corners of residential streets to learn it. On the other hand, there are pop music centers that can be seen in crowded business areas to attract folks.

Also, I believe that if the classical musicians were united in their cause, they could have easily made representations for including classical music in the course offerings in one of our universities.

27 by jay on February 24, 2003 7:09am PT
Norah Jones takes Grammys by storm
CHIDANAND RAJGHATTA

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ MONDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 2003 12:00:12 PM ]

WASHINGTON: Sitar maestro Pandit Ravi Shankar’s American daughter Norah Jones won a record-equalling eight Grammy Awards on Sunday to lend the music world’s biggest night a light Indian note
-------------------------------------------------------------------

ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF INFLATED BOOK KEEPING HABIT OF HINDIANS.

Everything is Indian .........when only 2/3 of india is BHARAT ......

``My wife loves ghazals. And I love my wife, so I sometimes switch on to ghazals when she is not around, but only to remind me of her

and (not because I really care about ghazals)``(tahmed)

tahmed, u don`t like gazals!? -- now THAT explains your occasional quirkiness:-)

Jay#27,
Please stop trying to bask in someone else`s glory.

Norah Jones is an American. Ravi shankar never even met her till she was 18 year old. (It appears that he was quite adept at fathering kids outside wedlock). Norah Jones never mentions her father (or her father`s country) in any of her biography.

#29 by sac
Mister SAC! Cut the crap. If you don`t know anything about something try to avoid writing stupid responses and spare everyone your load of bullcrap!

``A rag ``. It is a raag, not rag. A rag in the English language is a torn piece of cloth. I hope this helps you build your vocabulary!

sac #29 At last, we have someone striking a discordant note on this board. There was too much singing of praise, too much chorus of ``Yay``s (Jays expected basking in the reflected glory of a talented 23 year old doesnt count, since he is a nutcase), too many violins being played to mourn the lack of interest in classical music, too many ``Hallelujahs``, and Hymns to the Lords of Music on this board. So thank you for cutting it all out with the magic words ``bullshit``.
Having thanked you for introducing a discordant chord, let me therefore add to this by telling you off on Aguillera vs. Mozart. Far from switching over to Mozart when company is expected, I switch it ON when I am all by myself in the car or in the house. Because my kids are similarly misled like you regarding the beauty of classical music (one of them is coming around to appreciating it though). My wife loves ghazals. And I love my wife, so I sometimes switch on to ghazals when she is not around, but only to remind me of her and not because I really care about ghazals. And never in her presence otherwise we would have nothing but ghazals around the house.
There is definitely no snob appeal in classical music.
Note to Hamid Sahib: Just joking here a bit sir. I loved your article and the discussion.

What kind of bullshit is this? A rag is simply a rendition of musical sounds in (hopefully) pleasing manner. The author`s contention that contemporary artists should pay homage to their influence is like saying one should preface each work in English language with a note of thanks to Shakespeare!

The problem with classical music everywhere is that it has a certain snob appeal. Some of us will hide away our Aguillera CDs and replace them with Brahms or Mozart when we have guests over. Too bad they`ll still be in cellophane wrapping. Music is eternal and what we enjoy has nothing to do with being highbrow or not. If that were the case, all the background music on major hollywood productions would be hip-hop or rap. Music tastes evolve with time. There is no essentially *higher* form of music. If classical music is dying, well so are drive-in movie theatres and cotton candy. Deal with it.

Like most majors in college dealing with *social* sciences, music and dance majors are simply there because they`ve been around for a while,serve as employers for a lot of less than gifted no-gooders and allows one to get a four year degree without feeling guilty about wasting our parent`s money. When was the last time anyone gifted came out of these programs? The ones that did actually dropped out before finishing school. The rest were either writing html code till a couple of years ago or were writing a treatise on the joys of macrobiotic food.

later
-sac

Norah Jones takes Grammys by storm
CHIDANAND RAJGHATTA

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ MONDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 2003 12:00:12 PM ]

WASHINGTON: Sitar maestro Pandit Ravi Shankar’s American daughter Norah Jones won a record-equalling eight Grammy Awards on Sunday to lend the music world’s biggest night a light Indian note.



Jones, 23, a debutante by entertainment industry standards, outshone a galaxy of music luminaries as she won individual Grammys for Best New Artist, Album of the Year (for “Come Away With Me”), Record of The Year (for the song “Don’t Know Why”), Best Female Pop Vocal Performance, and Best Pop Vocal Album.

///Music has to be in the blood, it has to reflect the values of the society. Instead of trying to rebrand indian music as pakistani, the effort should be to develop some jihadic music and that will be in tune and with and galvanise the emerging pak society.

Banjaara and hamid_81 re: baRe Ghulam Ali Khan
I guess I did not make term gharana clear in the context of my previous post. I agree with both of you about Patiala Gharana and Ustaad belonging to it. But that is like a schooling and following a style. I was mainly concerned about family tree and gave example of higher military officers relationships to each other. His father was not a famous musician and for a while Ustaad did not get respect from peers for that reason. He was even snubbed few times for not coming from elaborated family. Here is an excerpt from an article about him:

[At times, even an apparently innocuous and casual remark, or an
insignificant incident, leads to an event of far-reaching
consequences, leaving indelible imprint on the annual of a
particular discipline. An unintentional jibe by a singing duo
aimed at a musician in the late 20s culminated in the birth of
one of the brightest stars on the melodic firmament of the Sub-
continent, whose glow spread all over the area. He commanded
ungrudging respect from professional musicians and also won the
hearts of millions of music buffs, both in Pakistan as well as
India and Bangladesh. He was the late Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan.
The late Qazi Zahurul Haq, in his book, Muallamul Naghmaat, has
written that the famous qawwals Mubarak Ali Khan-Fateh Ali Khan
Jallandhari (father of Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan) were once invited to lunch by the late Bade Ghulam Ali Khan. The qawwals, who were known for their melodic erudition and skill in rendering classical asthai-antras (compositions), declined the invitation with the insinuation that they could break bread with a classical singer, but not with a sparda (an
accompanying musician with a female singer). Ghulam Ali Khan
then, was a sarangi accompanist of a well-known classical singer
of Lahore, Inayat Bai Dheroowali). The cutting edge of the remark
of the qawwals hurt young Ghulam Ali so much that there and then
he decided to give up sarangi-playing and resolved to practise
the art of classical vocalisation so that he could not be derided
by anyone any more.
That was how a great artiste was born. And what a classy singer
he ultimately turned out to be. Those who have heard him singing
(in person or through audio cassettes) will readily agree that he
was one of the most accomplished singers. His mellifluous renditions of
classical compositions, and the variety of effects his unique and
pliant voice could create, hypnotised his audiences for about 30
years during his life, and continue to cast hypnotic spells on
initiated listeners through his recorded music.

Born in Kasur in the year 1902 (some say in 1903) in a family of
professional musicians, that melodist of inimitable virtuosity
was initiated into instrumental music by his father, Ali Bakhsh.
For about 15 years, it is said, young Ghulam Ali Khan played
sarangi before he turned to classical singing. During his youth,
he had been trained by his uncle Ustad Kaley Khan, (a disciple of
the legendary Mian Taan Ras Khan) who along with his friend Fateh
Ali Khan, founded the famous Patiala gharana of kheyal singers.

Before partition, he used to visit the princely states, like
other melodists of that era, to present his music in the darbars
of the Nawabs and Rajas, but he was not attached with any
princely state such as Patiala, as claimed by Manjri Sinha in his
book Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan (Lotus Collection, Roli Books).
In Patiala darbar, Ustad Akhter Husain Khan (the father of Amanat
Ali Khan-Fateh Ali Khan duo was employed who, along with his
singing sons, migrated to Pakistan in September 1947.
Musical gharanas are recognised only for their stylish contribution to kheyal singing; their different aesthetic approaches to this genre of
classical vocalisation; their innovative additions to kheyal
singing; their peculiar methods of voice production and taking
taans (flights), and their known endeavours to preserve kheyal`s
serenity, beauty of its form with their creative fancy. The
mentors of Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan were the followers of
Patiala gharana kheyal traditions. And he himself, at one time,
received training from Ustad Ashiq Ali Khan of Patiala.]