Zafar Anjum February 27, 2003
#9 Posted by Studebaker on February 27, 2003 2:39:05 pm
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#8 Posted by Ansari on February 27, 2003 2:33:05 pm
Zafar sahab,
You write, ``...secularism as officially promoted in India alienates both Hindus and Muslims. Hence, a positive acceptance of diverse identities rooted in religion as enunciated by Gandhi has better prospects for national integration than secular principles.``
So in order to receive legitimacy in the eyes of a state that barely grudges them the right to exist, Muslims must continue to be Muslims? What Javed Akhtar says sounds a little naive because when you think about it, is it really a religious identity (which is exceedingly difficult to contain within a nationalistic context given the diversity Islam enjoys in its practitioners) the Sangh Parivar and its adherents are reacting to or perhaps a set of politically convenient labels, carefully construed to protect the interests of a particular group? Is the problem not within the political structure itself that allows such blatant discrimination to go by unchecked?
Is it really about Hinduism? Has Hinduism really seen a resurgence with the advent of the Sangh Parivar or has the ideology merely spawned off another nationalistic militancy, as gruesome as the Nazis`?
And who can say that once the Muslims have been removed, or ethnically cleansed or whatever passes for the murder of innocent people, the same politicians (or political ideology) will not turn against another community (maybe the Sikhs) for whatever twisted purpose?
You write, ``...secularism as officially promoted in India alienates both Hindus and Muslims. Hence, a positive acceptance of diverse identities rooted in religion as enunciated by Gandhi has better prospects for national integration than secular principles.``
So in order to receive legitimacy in the eyes of a state that barely grudges them the right to exist, Muslims must continue to be Muslims? What Javed Akhtar says sounds a little naive because when you think about it, is it really a religious identity (which is exceedingly difficult to contain within a nationalistic context given the diversity Islam enjoys in its practitioners) the Sangh Parivar and its adherents are reacting to or perhaps a set of politically convenient labels, carefully construed to protect the interests of a particular group? Is the problem not within the political structure itself that allows such blatant discrimination to go by unchecked?
Is it really about Hinduism? Has Hinduism really seen a resurgence with the advent of the Sangh Parivar or has the ideology merely spawned off another nationalistic militancy, as gruesome as the Nazis`?
And who can say that once the Muslims have been removed, or ethnically cleansed or whatever passes for the murder of innocent people, the same politicians (or political ideology) will not turn against another community (maybe the Sikhs) for whatever twisted purpose?
#7 Posted by Urstruly on February 27, 2003 2:33:04 pm
Ahmadzai
I agree with your assesment on all issues except one that ``India will attack Pakistan``. In my opinion, from now on an armed conflict is not possible - the most they can do is to amass their army at our borders like they did last year and kept it there for a year. Hindu religious nuts who are currently ruling India are crazy but definitely not stupid.
#6 Posted by harimau on February 27, 2003 2:33:04 pm
The author writes:
[After the revolt of 1857, the British began to victimize the Muslims holding them as the arch conspirators of the revolt. Thereafter came a pro-Hindu tilt in the British policies. Educationally and economically, Muslims were already lagging behind the Hindus. Sir Syed Ahmed Khan started the Aligarh Movement in response to this backwardness of the Muslims.]
This is a myth that has been circulating now for 150 years.All that happened in 1857 was that the Moghul Emperor, whose writ did not run outside the Red Fort in Delhi, was finally dispossessed of his title of Emperor and sent off into exile in Burma. Unable to collect revenues from the governors of various provinces, the various Moghul emperors had handed over revenue collection to the British in exchange for an annual income stream. Thus Bengal was handed over to the British to do as they pleased in return for 5 million pounds annually. The emperor was willing to hand over all of India in return for 50 million pounds
[After the revolt of 1857, the British began to victimize the Muslims holding them as the arch conspirators of the revolt. Thereafter came a pro-Hindu tilt in the British policies. Educationally and economically, Muslims were already lagging behind the Hindus. Sir Syed Ahmed Khan started the Aligarh Movement in response to this backwardness of the Muslims.]
This is a myth that has been circulating now for 150 years.All that happened in 1857 was that the Moghul Emperor, whose writ did not run outside the Red Fort in Delhi, was finally dispossessed of his title of Emperor and sent off into exile in Burma. Unable to collect revenues from the governors of various provinces, the various Moghul emperors had handed over revenue collection to the British in exchange for an annual income stream. Thus Bengal was handed over to the British to do as they pleased in return for 5 million pounds annually. The emperor was willing to hand over all of India in return for 50 million pounds
#5 Posted by pmishra2 on February 27, 2003 2:33:04 pm
Good commsensical article. I agree that post-Babri the situation of the indian muslims in North India has become much more precarious and unequal. I am also glad to see an honest analysis of the 1985 Shah Bano case and Rajiv Gandhi`s two-faced comminalist strategy.
Unlike the pakistani posters who are under the impression that somehow pakistani islamists will be ``helpful`` to indian muslims (so far the ``help`` they have provided through the Kashmir jihad has come in quite handy for the RSS/VHP program!!), it is focussing on civil society and core indian values that seems much more helpful.
A new image of indian muslims as patriotic to the core (which they are but has little projection in the media) and deeply involved with the welfare of all their fellow citizens (muslim and non-muslim) is what is needed. We are all in this together (I mean indians, not bigots like Urstruly) and will sink or swim together.
Unlike the pakistani posters who are under the impression that somehow pakistani islamists will be ``helpful`` to indian muslims (so far the ``help`` they have provided through the Kashmir jihad has come in quite handy for the RSS/VHP program!!), it is focussing on civil society and core indian values that seems much more helpful.
A new image of indian muslims as patriotic to the core (which they are but has little projection in the media) and deeply involved with the welfare of all their fellow citizens (muslim and non-muslim) is what is needed. We are all in this together (I mean indians, not bigots like Urstruly) and will sink or swim together.
#4 Posted by Ahmadzai on February 27, 2003 1:36:29 pm
Urstruly:
Please read my various Afghanistan related posts on Samina Shah`s Tunnel interactive board.
As regards this post of yours, another Pakistan can emerge in India if the Hindu nationalism continues unchecked. I believe that Indian seculars will be able to check it. However, if they don`t, this whole region will witness instability.
Since I am usually not able to mentally associate myself with short-term time frames, my long-term projection is as follows:
In case Indian Muslims are not treated properly, extremist Islamic parties in Pakistan will get stronger. So will be their desire for pan-Islamism. They will attempt to make our state weaker by pushing into India, especially if they are able to gain the sympathy of Indian Muslims. This may encourage India to attack Pakistan, which may lead to a civil war within India. Every Muslim is in it. Perhaps I am not able to explain it in English, but just imagine it can translate into every disenchanted Indian ethnic group for the other`s throat. Eventually, Pakistan`s unity may become questionable even though for a start there may be unity through pan-Islamism.
Please read my various Afghanistan related posts on Samina Shah`s Tunnel interactive board.
As regards this post of yours, another Pakistan can emerge in India if the Hindu nationalism continues unchecked. I believe that Indian seculars will be able to check it. However, if they don`t, this whole region will witness instability.
Since I am usually not able to mentally associate myself with short-term time frames, my long-term projection is as follows:
In case Indian Muslims are not treated properly, extremist Islamic parties in Pakistan will get stronger. So will be their desire for pan-Islamism. They will attempt to make our state weaker by pushing into India, especially if they are able to gain the sympathy of Indian Muslims. This may encourage India to attack Pakistan, which may lead to a civil war within India. Every Muslim is in it. Perhaps I am not able to explain it in English, but just imagine it can translate into every disenchanted Indian ethnic group for the other`s throat. Eventually, Pakistan`s unity may become questionable even though for a start there may be unity through pan-Islamism.
#3 Posted by tahmed32 on February 27, 2003 1:36:29 pm
Today the Washington Post reports that the portrait of Savarkar (a founding father of the JSS) was hanged with much pomp and ceremony by the BJP in the halls of the Indian Parliament, alongside that of Gandhi. The paper reports that Gandhi`s murderer is known to have visited Savarkar`s house frequently, and there appears no doubt in many people`s mind that Gandhi was killed by Savarkar. Savarkar`s other contribution to India is the coining of the phrase ``Hindutva`` (hindu way). He condemned Indian muslims and christians for not regarding India as their holy land. No doubt this is a big day for the many hate-mongerers in India, and I can see Jay wetting his pants with delight in his cell. :-)
It is a sad day for all those in India and in Pakistan who wish to see peace and sanity and goodwill prevail in the subcontinent. That dream seems to move further and further away with each passing year...
It is a sad day for all those in India and in Pakistan who wish to see peace and sanity and goodwill prevail in the subcontinent. That dream seems to move further and further away with each passing year...
#2 Posted by Urstruly on February 27, 2003 11:26:24 am
Good article - sane advices.
But keep in mind that the social dynamics has a momentum of its own where external forces equally contribute along with the internal ones. You can corner a cat only for so long; in the end it comes for your eyes. The way the things are going, I see another Pakistan emerging from the womb of Hindustan. The division in 1947 was never fair......the unjust re-occupation of Kashmir, Junagadh, and Hyderabad by Hindus, right after the formula of partition was agreed upon, has spurred the wheel in a certain direction, and that direction is the emergence of another Pakistan. This wheel cannot be set to turn in reverse now. While the secular Hindus have burried their heads in the sand, the religious nuts have sensed what is coming their way....so they have started to react the only way they can - the uncompromising way. Please keep in mind that it took only 24 years from conception to realization of the idea of the existing Pakistan - the emergence of a new Paksitan may take a little longer (or shorter; Bosnia & Kosovo emerged in less than 10 years). But that is inevitable.
#1 Posted by Ahmadzai on February 27, 2003 11:14:50 am
This is a good article coming from an Indian Muslim. I wish all the Indian Muslims the very best of life in India.
However, the writer wrote: ``plain English, it means that the fundamentalist and opportunistic Muslim leadership has to be completely disowned by the Muslims. I think the Muslims of India have done that. ``
This has to be done by Pakistanis also.
An encouraging point to note is that the recently held mass anti-war protest demonstrations all over the `Christian lands` have made the fundamentalist Muslims of Pakistan weaker, as their stance of painting US lead war on Iraq as anti-Muslim has been put to death.
In India however, the fundamentalist and nationalist Hindus lead by the current Government are becoming stronger on the basis of their stance in Gujrat that will be replicated all over India.
However, the writer wrote: ``plain English, it means that the fundamentalist and opportunistic Muslim leadership has to be completely disowned by the Muslims. I think the Muslims of India have done that. ``
This has to be done by Pakistanis also.
An encouraging point to note is that the recently held mass anti-war protest demonstrations all over the `Christian lands` have made the fundamentalist Muslims of Pakistan weaker, as their stance of painting US lead war on Iraq as anti-Muslim has been put to death.
In India however, the fundamentalist and nationalist Hindus lead by the current Government are becoming stronger on the basis of their stance in Gujrat that will be replicated all over India.
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