Muslims in India: Communalism vs. Backwardness-Minority Syndrome

Hamidm ji

Sach sach bataye, Aapki biwi Hyderabadi hai? Aapki knowledge South Indian khaane ke baare maiN normal se kuchh zayada hai.
Keep posting your pearls of wisdom.

Regards

Sadna at # 19:

LOL, except for the last para.

Your last para is a bit emotionally written.

I will say this with great deal of conviction that here on Chowk, our posts get abnormally hateful due to posters from opposing views. General belief in Pakistan is that the Muslims of India will fare well by assimilating themselves into India economically, but not at the cost of their religious identity. That is why I liked some of the suggestions given to Indian Muslims by the writer. I am also positive that Indian Muslims are generally quite happy being just that, except that they do express their concerns at anti-Muslim hate being created by Indian leadership as evident from Gujrat.

However, I still have my strong concernes in a long term perspective, if the seculars of India are not able to check the current wave of fundamentalism.

This is a well written article.

re # 27 nazarhayatkhan

There`s no point in wishing these hate-mongers would go away. I think most of them don`t have very `happening` lives in any case so all they do every day, day in and day out, is write hate messages to each other. Maybe it makes them feel full-filled, satisfied, superior..I don`t know...but whatever it is, it won`t go away, so don`t even bother asking them to talk about ``flowers, rainbows and love.`` This hate talk, unfortunately, has become a regular feature of Chowk, where people resort to insults instead of rationally talking about the real issues and problems.

I say Hamid-M #20 . . . that was truly not honest an oxymoron or two . . . ``I like them less than I like `orrible `indoos`` . . . I am now digging out that slide-rule hidden somewhere and am going to try to figure out what that means . . . and yes, that red paste is nothing but colour thrown on to foul things, somehow that red paste has now found its way on to simple tandoori food also which is sad, no?

Also, Hamid-m, don`t knock the wide wide range of non-veg (Hindu?) dosas & idlis currently ruling the planet, at a subcontinent near you . . . they may be called by other names like ``Ceylon Paratha``, ``keema newspaper`` (this is really really cool), ``Chinese dosa`` . . . and my favourite ``Egg-gosht hoppers``.

I got a strong feeling that if somebody had the brains to start a non-veg Chettiyar cum Malwani food restaurant, use meats not usually found in India, then call it something like ``Ye Olde Malabari Moplah via Zanzibar Revenge`` in Pakistan then that somebody would make a big BIG sum of money. (In dollars?)

Much better then this business of Muslim leadership as far as being a commercial proposition goes. Look at Rooh-Afza or Jhandu Balm, I tell you!!

Hindus to pray at Bhojshala on Tuesdays, Muslims on Fridays
- -
Bhopal: The Centre has allowed Hindus to worship at the controversial Bhojshala-Kamaal Maula mosque in Dhar on Tuesdays while Muslims would continue to offer Friday prayers as suggested by the Madhya Pradesh government, Chief Minister Digvijay Singh said here on Thursday. Singh said he had receieved a letter to this effect from Union Culture and Tourism minister Jagmohan on Wednesday allowing the Hindus to pay obeisance at the Wagdevi temple for the whole day on Tuesdays and carry rice and flowers as prayer offerings.

Singh said this was in modification of his government`s recommendations suggesting that Hindus worship for two hours on Tuesdays and not carry any pooja material inside the ASI-protected shrine. The Muslims will continue to offer namaz at the adjacent mosque on Fridays. On other days the shrine would be open to public as a tourist spot for a token entry fee.

The chief minister said the letter from the Centre had been forwarded to the Dhar district administration for making arrangements accordingly. The recommendations for holding prayers had come to the state government from the Dhar district administration after an all-party meeting held in Dhar on February 19 last.
/////There is a similar arrangement in pakistan also, the sunnis goe to shia mosques ( sorry that word is not allowed for the ahmadias asw well) on one friday and the shias goe to the sunni ,osques the next, of course armed with Ak47s, one funded by the ISI and the other by the iranians. Perfect model for the great vision of a two nation theory.

It is true that we keep discussing Indo-Pak or Hindu Muslim issues at Chowk. The reason is that we need to make sense out of the chaos, and discussions help in this regard.

No sane person will believe in the creation of another Pakistan. The Indian Muslims have rejected the TNT for good. That`s why we are in India. We live here and we will die here. The politicians always want to divide the people to run their shops. The Hindu Nazis are doing the same.

Zafar
Hatred can never be won over by hatred. Love is the answer.

It is true that we keep discussing Indo-Pak or Hindu Muslim issues at Chowk. The reason is that we need to make sense out of the chaos, and discussions help in this regard.

No sane person will believe in the creation of another Pakistan. The Indian Muslims have rejected the TNT for good. That`s why we are in India. We live here and we will die here. The politicians always want to divide the people to run their shops. The Hindu Nazis are doing the same.

Hatred can never be won over by hatred. Love is the answer.

Who invented the Two nation theory ?

To the gentleman who oddly claims that Jinnah somehow invented the two nation theory... Jinnah (ironically the only politician in the history of South Asia to be called `Best Ambassador of Hindu Muslim Unity`) didn`t become convinced of the two nation theory untill 1939 ... and when he was convinced he saw it more of an unfortunate fact than an ideal situation hence his retraction after the creation of Pakistan. Iqbal, Rahmat Ali, Agha Khan 3 and Syed Ameer Ali had been talking of the two nation theory years ago.

In the Hindu community Savarkar had spoken of the two nation theory as early as 1923... an when he did, he didn`t speak of a right of self determination of his `MAJORITARIAN` community but as a tool to suppress the Muslim minority. In the Muslim Community the reformist and modernist Sir Syed Ahmed Khan had become convinced of the unfortunate Two Nation theory/fact as early as 1867... but even he was not the first one to speak of it... Chatterjee`s ``Anandmath`` and Ram Mohan Roy`s reformism all were various manifestations of this theory and preceded Jinnah by atleast 200 years..


These are the facts... but sadly the gentleman (if one can call him that) has a rather skewed view of history based on his self righteousness and some deep sense of insecurity... Hence instead of a constructive response one can only expect accusations of `sectarianism` and comparisons with Bal Thackerey from him... Ah well, when one comes across the likes of Qazi Hussain Ahmed, and Mullah Diesel in one`s own society, one learns to forgive people like P-Mishra for their obstinate bigotry. All one can do is counter their stinking farts of untruth with the air freshner of the truth!

Atleast people like Khushwant Singh are a breath of fresh air... atleast they have always called a spade for a spade, when it comes to matters pertaining to the partition of India. Thanks to providence there are many like him in India...

Long Live Jinnah`s Pakistan
Long Live Khushwant`s India

Has Sameerjb`s nick been hijacked by Jay? Because I have a strong feeling that it has been... He is no longer the balanced sane and rational Pakistani that I had come to admire for his realism...

Can someone update me on this development...

-YLH

tahmed`s #28... needs restatement :

``Jinnah`s means (like Nehru`s and others of the time) were firmly grounded in the British parliamentary tradition - i.e. you argue, you air your views, but you NEVER EVER resort to violence, nor do you demean communities of people. The means employed by Savarkar were the opposite - Godse (Gandhi`s convicted murderer) is known to have visited Savarkar`s house, and (as the WP article indicates), although that assasination could not (at least in many people`s mind) have taken place without Savarkar`s blessings. Also, Savarkar maligned muslims and christians (by declaring them guilty of not not looking towards India as their spiritual homeland). Finally, the followers of Savarkar (the JSS) continue to resort to violence and harassment of muslims and christians, whereas Jinnah`s legacy (the Muslim League) is generally recognized as a mainstream party. Savarkar`s equivalent was not Jinnah, but the maulvi extremists who first opposed Jinnah, and now are providing a hindutva equivalent vision for Pakistan that is directly competing with Jinnah`s vision of Pakistan.``


I, as a believer of Jinnah`s vision of Pakistan (a modern democratic pluralistic state) also realize that the greatest allies we have in this world are the true Gandhians across the borders (no matter what reservations I might have had in the past about Gandhi) and therefore once again I extend my hand of friendship to the self proclaimed Gandhians on this board... (but ofcourse once again I only expect to be snubbed, harrassed and abused)...


-YLH

AN APPEAL!

Mr. Mishra I strongly urge you not to resort the usual defaecation which is now SADLY your hallmark... the only thing it does (other than show us your ignorance) is convince me that only a thin veneer separates the self proclaimed secularist Indians (from the Majority community) from the saffron brigade which is a menace... besides I suspect you don`t really believe all that you say..

If indeed you are what you claim to be (though I strongly doubt it after your baseless accusations against me in the past) ... then at a time when we should be working together to save our respective countries from the menace of religious extremism .. we (followers of Jinnah and Gandhi) are indulging in the same kind of mistrust and suspicion that kept those two great South Asian leaders from coming together... your verbose monologues of hate against Pakistan notwithstanding, I am sure you realize how the likes of you have compromised peace in South Asia...

I ask you, much like my leader had asked your leader in 1920, to cry halt and stop yourself and your countrymen to stop before you lead us to an almost certain destruction and death... stop before it is too late, and all that is liberal and good about our countries is lost for ever!!!

But I fear that in this whirlpool of hate, you have gone far ahead...


Sincerely
Yasser

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pmishra2

Jinnah created Pakistan so that Muslims wouldnot need to complain about Hindus, he evidently didnot succeed, because even 57 years later, they are still singing maatams over the evil hindoos. I would think Jinnah imagined 57 years on, with their own country Pakistanis could devote their time to thinking about their own affairs, such as the state of their own Pakistani parliament, not the state of Indian secularism. I mean why Pakistan then?

One irony no Jinnah fanatic will acknowledge when talking of `constitutionalism` is that in India Jinnah is considered to be one of the founding fathers of the INDIAN Constitution :).


Anyway, the doublestandard you point out is very evident. sac I think said on another thread that the human brain requires nonveg. food to sustain it(perhaps he said its evolution required nonveg food). But what is very evident here is that some (now deceased) animals didnot eat their vegetables like their mommy told them to.


ahmadzai #29
I prefer to think of solutions, any solutions instead of eternal breastbeating :).
Re your observations about this thread, let me add, Pakistanis didnot believe in Indian secularism, thats why there is Pakistan. DUH. No need to restate it again and again `how many ways I hate you`, if you see what I mean.

btw, the question you have over the Hindu fundamentalist threat is exactly the question Hindutva-vadis raise about the Muslim fundamentalist threat, a question which they backup with instances from around the world and neighbourhood.

#28 tahmed

You may choose to fool yourself any way you like. If you consider Jinnah`s ``Direct Action Day`` a form of constitutional action, then you probably also consider Narendra Modi a great political theorist. To a honest person there is no difference between ``Gaurav Yatra`` and ``Direct Action``. Both fall in the category of mob violence for political ends.

Indeed, the tragedy with Jinnah was that inspite of education and high achievement he choose to utilize mob violence and mass killings to justify his political goals. At least with Sarvarkar we have the excuse of modest education and class.

Here are some descriptions of Jinnah`s ``constitutional`` acumen:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Direct Action Dayà In August, Jinnah unleashed---perhaps inadvertently,
perhaps not---an ugly sample of the horrors to come. Opposed to a British
plan for Indian independence that did not also create Pakistan, he designated
the 18th day of Ramadan as ``Direct Action Day.`` ``Though direct,`` ``the action
was supposed to be peaceful. But before the disastrous day was over, blood
soaked the melting asphalt of sweltering Calcutta‘s streets.
The #Direct Action Day‘ that was celebrated by the Muslim League on August
16 touched off a chain reaction of violent explosions, which in the succeeding
12 months shook the country. On 16th August 1946, the #Direct Action Day‘
observed by the Muslim League, Calcutta witnessed a communal riot the scale
and intensity of which had never been known in living memory. For 4 days,
bands of hooligans armed with sticks, spears hatchets and even firearms
roamed the town robbing and killing at will. The #Great Calcutta Killing‘ took a
toll of more than 5000 lives besides the 15000 or more that were injured.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On August 16, 1946, in its demand for a separate Pakistan, the Muslim League called for ``Direct Action`` day. Direct Action day witnessed thousands of Muslims and Hindus fighting in mixed areas. Calcutta became the scene of the most brutal violence in what became known as the great `Calcutta killings`. Within 72 hours, more than 5,000 people died, at least 20,000 were seriously injured, and a hundred thousand residents of Calcutta City alone were left homeless. As Jinnah remarked ``If not a divided India, then a destroyed India``. More violence followed as the rioting spread to the rural areas of Punjab and the Ganges valley.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 16th August, the League marred proceedings by staging a Direct Action Day organizing rallies, demonstrations and processions. In Bengal a public holiday was declared, but attempts by Muslims to force Hindu shops to close soon led to an orgy of arson, looting and murder. Large numbers of troops were called in but rioting continued for four days and according to official estimates 5,000 people were killed, 15,000 injured and over 100,000 rendered homeless. Although Muslims were initially the aggressors both parties contributed equally to the destruction of Calcutta.

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