Tunnel Vision

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re: saimashah

{The idea that India would invade Pakistan, in case Musharraf was assassinated (about a year ago) was personally told to me through an Indian armyman.}

..and i was told the jews brought down the WTC...

pmishra2 #50
I read the Barry Bearak article too and I agree with your conclusions re Mishra. Journalists should keep their ideology out of reporting.
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Re airing the separatist Kashmiri viewpoint in Indian media. Well, more is always better, but I have seen Mirwaiz Farooq and Sajjad Lone being interviewed and at least the Mirwaiz answering questions on live TV.

During the recent elections many people from Kashmir were interviewed on TV, ordinary public as well as the leadership. Basically, there were multiple newschannels showing multiple programs on a daily basis talking to locals and going to various constituencies. There can, of course have been a filtering applied by the TV networks themselves on what POVs were shown.

As for Pakistanis, I have seen Hamid Haroon and Ayaz Amir in separate episodes of The Big Fight on Star News, debating their views with one or two others in an hourlong program. I was not in India, but it was reported that Musharraf got a lot of admiring /slobberingly admiring coverage during the Agra Summit.


But finally it boils down to this. Regarding what should be future of Indian J&K, however much discussion takes place, I doubt any thinking Indian will support going back 57 years to the horror of Partition and agreeing to redraw religious boundaries simply because Pakistan has a nuclear bomb and a stable full of jihadis. Indians would consider doing everything possible to tackle the alienation of J&Kashmiris, but will never voluntarily support dividing the country again. The fact that jihadis are also fighting for India to be divided again and take care to trumpet it in their press statements, on their websites, their determination reflected in the statements of all prominent `liberal` Pakistani leaders, only serves to corroborate to an Indian, the correctness of his/her first instinct against another partition, including the need to fight back at all costs.


Re the Pakistani viewpoint
Meanwhile since the suffering Jammu Kashmiris are not the only people on the subcontinent, I am waiting to hear what those in Pak Occupied Kashmir and Northern Areas think of the settlers from outside, their government and the training camps.

I am waiting to hear the bonded laborers in Sindh air their grievances and talk of the violence they have faced over the years from feudals, the army and the state, on public television and press in Pakistan. I am waiting to hear Sindhi activists talk of water shortages.

I am waiting to hear Pakistani jihadis who have fought in Afghanistan, Chechnya and Kashmir air THEIR grievances on Pakistani television and press. I am waiting to hear those suffering from drought in Cholistan air their problems on TV and press.

Let those bombing the gas pipelines in Balochistan air THEIR grievances on Pakistani TV and press. Let those being forced to sign away their land rights in Okara air their grievances on Pakistani TV and press.

Let the people in the various Tribal Territories air on TV what they think about the state of Pashtun affairs in Afghanistan, on Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, their views of Pakistani government`s control over their regions and Musharraf`s support of the US against the Taliban.

Let the Pakistan National Assembly be allowed to meet and discuss business. Let there be dissent in Pakistan`s National Assembly on who can be Pakistan`s President and what should be the provisions of the Pakistani constitution.

I feel sorry for all these suffering people and I think the truth needs to be uncovered for their sakes, which cannot happen unless there is dissent in Pakistan. I extend my moral and diplomatic support to all these people.

Saima:

(warning: long post)

…you want dialogue...you get dialogue!…it could be exasperating and thankless exercise for all well meaning folks…and the usual suspects who fire volleys from the pakistani side are absent from here…therefore you are left to fend for yourself…in a way it is all the better…after the usual suspects from the other side have spent their venom you will be left discussing this with the serious ones…

…my own take is slightly different…before we engage in a dialogue we have got to put our own house in order…the basic assumption i make is simple and perhaps naïve…i cannot trust those in the saddle in pakistan…under any garb…

...for me the daunting challenges facing the country are not in purdah: poverty, education, health, intolerance, infant mortality, honour killing, blasphemy laws… we are all familiar with this list…

…those groups in power and close to power use Kashmir as the magical wand to deflect and divert attention from all our problems…

---Kashmir is a terminal cancer for pakistan…
---Kashmir is a curse, diversion, scapefoat and stimuli all rolled into one…the masses are deprived and will continue to be deprived of what is rightfully theirs because of it…


…my solution is simple though not simplistic…

---find a face saving solution to kashmir…then and only then can the leaders give undivided attention to the pressing problems of the masses…

but

…for this to happen…the people...the masses would have to come out in the streets and remove this occupying army and its civilian cohorts (or co-opts) from the equation…

…as long as the Pak army meddles in political decision making we cannot have any progress…and the only recourse available now is to change this equation by force….and no, saima...other means will not work…once we are rid of the occupying army…the emerging leadership can tackle the Kashmir cancer and concentrate on our shortcomings…and once that is underway…the moderating and sensible forces on the other side will get a boost towards any bridge building…the journey of a thousand miles will begin...

lve,

t

Saima,

Leadership of my nation definitely has tunnel vision. Recently Pakistan has received much more attention in Indian social life than it deserves. Trust me, Pakistan`s birth, survival and demise is inconsequential and irrelevent to 99% of Indian population. What wonders me is that what we respectfully asked Pakistani leadership to do (Sign Agra Declaration with reference to LOC Infiltration) was refuted with thumping chest. Same thing US ordered you to do and you did it. You have sold your nation`s soul to US. We did not. One thing is clear, here after US will have Pak get dirty work done through Indiaphobia. Pak will do that, no qustions will be asked. About Kashmir the reality is that the gun has become permanant feature of Kashmiri life. Who ever has Kashmir will hold it in palm like a hot potato (Did I spell right?) and show a smile on the face. Good article in good faith though!!

Its great how the writer is following up, and trying to personally reply to just everybody. Hats off to you Saima! You made a fan! :)

pmishra2

Pls. don`t confuse issues here--you challenged my opinion that India is ready to use force and I supported it with information. My article, takes into consideration informal viewpoints, news and other media--also mentioned within the article.

If you are basing your analysis on private communications like

[quote]
The idea that India would invade Pakistan, in case Musharraf was assassinated (about a year ago) was personally told to me through an Indian armyman.
[end-quote]

Then I have nothing to say. This is more or less at the level of discussing some bazaari gossip. What will you present next? That the jews brought down the WTC? Maybe some friend of yours also told you that!

I would suggest you spend some time reading the indian newspapers like Hindu, TimesOfIndia, Asian Age etc. Also important newsmagazines like India Today or Outlook. Read commentators like Jasjit Singh, Brahma Chellaney, B Raman etc. Then we can have a sensible discussion.

Otherwise, as people have already remarked, all you are doing is repeating the pakistani viewpoint in two or three different forms. It is as though you are negotiating with yourself instead of understanding what indian mainstream opinion believes in. And it is the indian mainstream opinion that after Kargil has completely lost interest in any short-term accommodation with Pakistan. It is their thoughts, and not nut-cases like Togadia or the Thackeray, that you should be worried about.

Saima:
Your well-expressed views will be shared by most people. But sometimes I get the feeling it can only be a drawing room mask for many. Pakistan has an `advantage` of being a Muslim state; the Indian liberal commentators you have mentioned are Hindu and I know this sounds petty, but there is a patronising attitude (not by the writers themselves) that the `sensible` lobby latches on to.

Those who want to extend the parameters of dialogue have a tough time. A Sikh friend with a UK passport happily crosses the border from India to Pakistan, and in fact naively told me that I could join him on the next visit. How? ``Oh, we can just walk across!`` he said. No, we cannot even fly there, I cannot. And he had spent months organising an Indo-Pak friendship event to be celebrated in both countries, but a highly-placed bureaucrat in Delhi told him not to even talk of Pakistan right now. He was exasperated, ``Can I not even say I like someone anymore? I am a person of principles and say what I feel strongly about. But I am forced to keep quiet.``

So, despite what people want, we have to travel through this never-ending dark tunnel.

re:pmishra2

India is better than Pakistan in every way. OK? The idea that India would invade Pakistan, in case Musharraf was assassinated (about a year ago) was personally told to me through an Indian armyman. That is why the Indian army was standing on the border. War was expected to break out.

arjun_m

My article barely mentioned political attempts from either Pakistan or India in case you noticed. I was examining people to people contact and the impact of the political rhetoric from an ordinary person`s point of view.

mohar11

thanks for the comment. I agree. As for moral equivalency, shouldn`t there be an attempt to move out of this dreadful impasse`? We need the truth. Both countries need to explore the truth about the killings in Kashmir. The actions of the governments obfiscate the truth. A stagnation in talks and communication is NOT the answer. Objective information about what is happening in Kashmir is necessary.

re: godot and Saminasha

thanks for the encouraging words.

Well done!

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Instead of involving people into this issue and makeing them hate each other, the leaders of two countries must do their duty honestly and resolve this issue on the table. People shouldn`t support their leaders if they make excuses to get away from peaceful ways of resolving this issue. Supporting incompetent leadership is only because of the tunnel vision.

Re: Saima, #37

Saima, you are one of the most objective, fair-minded, reasonable, and sensitive persons I’ve ever come across.

At Chowk, people very quickly take what you say out of context and this all snowballs into an avalanche with the original intent and thought completely buried underneath it, the voice of reason lost in the loudest of thoughtless noises. Finger pointing, accusing, alleging, and cursing is the forte of us desis. Reason, working together for common good, showing understanding...what the heck is all that? As unnecessary angry responses to your otherwise splendid article show, such is the mind-set of the South Asians. That’s why I’ve no hope for that region.

#21 sadna

Agree with your assessment of Pankaj Mishra. He is a real mix with some blind spots. I recommend you read his ``Butter Chicken in Ludhiana``. It is a very revealing work. Basically, you have a decent guy but with very fixed ideological orientation.

The way the book describes a hindu refugee from Bangladesh is revealing. The refugee says: look all the hindu temples and instittions in BD have been destroyed. Pankaj simply says thats not true, not every temple has been destroyed and moves on. End of matter. Thats it. No enquiry as to why this person has crossed countries and moved their homes etc. So you are left with a sense that somehow it is the refugees fault (hindu fanatic?).

You will recall that the indian left used a similar technique with the ethnic cleansing of the Kashmiri pandits from Kashmir itself. The pandits were blamed by the left for being ``aloof``, for being ``dominating`` etc. It was an astonishing response to atrocity and revealed the left as being more interested in their closed ideology rather than the facts on the ground.

The one thing I hold strongly against him was his article in the New York Review of Books. This is the article that basically says: many kashmiris dislike the central goverment, so it must be true that the Sikhs killed in Chattingsingpora were murderd by the indian govt!! Three months later Barry Bearak in the NYT magazine published a much clearer view that revealed the jihadi background behind the killings. We should hold Pankaj responsible for this piece of hateful disinformation.