Forgive me, Danny

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#97 by Manjit on March 6, 2003 9:32pm PT
Tipu,

As you noticed, Aligarh Muslim college had come into existence full four decades ahead of BHU.

Sarvarkar is just ONE cog in the wheel of vermin of communalism who think being Hindu entitles them to special rights!The other cogs are Shyama Prasad Mukherjee ,K.M. MUNSHI,Pt,Madan Mohon Malvia ,Business community of Dalmia & Birla (read thegrand daughters expose of grand father Dalmia)to most recent RETREAD of old tires by Koenrad Elstd(for being white german) Francis Gauthier (for being Whitre French)foolsHindutva still are impressed by Whites .Arun Shourie (only roped i b/c of Scathing criticizing Journalistic ability And Spewing venomin Koran translation ,Ramesh Rao ,Rajiv Malhotra ,etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.

What 4 decades before BHU ??Are you trying to pull fast one Manjit ?I know colleges even older than Aligarh Musl;im Oriental Colleges still there .DOnt compare COLLEGE with UNIVERSITY !

How many times Police made raid in BHU to investigate BJP VHP RSS etc.?



Even India Govts Raw or CID or BJP doesnt think Tableeq Jamaat is any org. Even if you want why you are suggesting as if Sarvarkar INVENTED Jan Sangh or Maha Sabha THAT WAS DONE BY others.

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#99 ahmadzai

[quote]
the cost of keeping 450-500 million of Indian population under poverty line through India`s unreasonable expenditure on defense.
[end-quote]

Indian expenditure on defense is under 3% of GNP. It is lower than the proportion spent by China (4.5%) and roughly a third of the proportion spent by Pakistan (somewhere between 8 and 15%, no one really knows). Most normal countries (I am not talking about Lichtenstien or Norway here) spend between 2 and 4 % of GNP on security-related expenses. So the only thing unreasonable here are your statements....

I understand that your imagination only a pacifist india is a good india. I understad that for pakistanis the only role model for India (but not for pakistan) are the opinions of Mahatma Gandhi on militarized nation states. Of course, you will never apply these ideas to Pakistan or China. After all, the former is a proud islamic country and must be heavily armed to terrorize the kafir. The latter is a supplier of arms to Pakistan and so must be allowed to militarize heavily.

Sigh ! Talk about ignorant people in glass houses....

Urstruly at # 91:

You wrote:
``The inter-ethnic carnage went through several stages; first it was Mohajir-Pakhtoon, when all others remained neutral, the it became Mohajir vs. Punjabi-Pakhtoon where Punjabis and Pakhtoons made an alliance and then it was Mohajir-Sindhi, while PP alliance remained neutral. ``

Your writing is self-explanatory. It was Mohajir versus all others one by one. I would again refer you to read Adnan`s response to me on the matter. Mr. Altaf Hussain made it a Mohajir versus other ethnic war on purpose instead of making it a oppressed versus establishment.

Btw, Please do not take me as an anti-Mohajir person. I may be anti-MQM, but I believe that any single ethnic group that could have given a competitive edge to Pakistan on the basis of economic prowess would be Mohajiris.

You wrote:
``MQM was split very late after 4-5 years of this inter-ethnic civil war.``

While establishment might have some role in it, basically Amer-Afaq lead more radical faction of MQM provided them a reason to do so. Do recall that when these two decided to quit MQM-Altaf, banners were quickly posted to ban their entries from all MQM areas. If you recall, these banners had read,`` Yahan Ghadaron ka daakhla mamnoo hay.``

Finally you correctly mentioned:
``LFO is a constitutional issue. It is being dealt in constitutional manner, right in the assembly.... ``

I agree with you, but boycotting the sessions of national assembly won`t help. Let the opposition discuss the matter in NA and if ruling party does not give it due consideration, take it to the court. Also opposition has to remember that more important issues than LFO are fighting corruption, poverty, Iraq and Kashmir issues, revamping of our education system, water related problems, etc.

Jay at # 98:

``YLH, if have any patriotism, if as you say you are dealing with the pak reality, make a monument for Samia Sarwari as reminder to that pak people about the nature of law in pakistan, where a woman can be killed infron of a world renowned lawer and the killer is honoured by the president of the country...... ``

While YLH may take some time to respond to this excellent post of yours, now I don`t understand how does the above compare with an event in secular and democratic India.

The leader of the march on Babri Mosque, which brought it down, and killer of Muslims in the ensuing Bombay riots has been elected as a Minister in India. The same person has now been elevated to the position of Deputy Prime Minister. A state minister followed in his footsteps in Gujrat and continues to rule unblamed.

;)

Jay at # 87:

``I did dish out some numbers about the kashmiris killed by the indian troops. Now as a typical pakistani you do not want to give some numbers to the afghan and kashmir shaheeds of pakistan. This is really pathetic, theses are the true un-countables of pakistan. From the local papaers, from the mosques, from the jihadic organisation, pl do come up with a number.``

While Adnan may take his time in responding to this excellent post, let me reply to at least one part that you have been raising lately:

I will give you the cost of Pakistani support to Talibans incurred more on ourselves than anybody else and some what offset by Pakistani support to Afghan refugees, as soon as someone gives me (preferably you) the cost of keeping 450-500 million of Indian population under poverty line through India`s unreasonable expenditure on defense.

``About the holier than thou attitude of mine, well I has said befor, I am a professional paki-basher..(there are two full stops after that)``

Please recall that I had suggested that you replace the first letter of your name i.e. `J` by the letter `G` due to your passive behaviour in taking all the bashing from all the chowksters;)

PAK TRAGEDY ylh

``Great Poem to bring back something I had internalized... In my letter to Friday Times last year (back in the good old Rutgers` days), which Marianne Pearl was kind enough to quote in New York Times, I had proposed a monument... if that ever goes through maybe we can put this poem on it Inshallah. ``

So I was correct, Aisha is hoping for the poem to be picked up by some american, hopefully jewish publisher.

YLH, if have any patriotism, if as you say you are dealing with the pak reality, make a monument for Samia Sarwari as reminder to that pak people about the nature of law in pakistan, where a woman can be killed infron of a world renowned lawer and the killer is honoured by the president of the country.

At the memorial please write that the elected representatives of the people refused to cndemn the killing because the killing is in tune with the book, the sheria court did not demand the review of the honour killing legitimisation bill, as it asked for a review of riba.

Tipu,

As you noticed, Aligarh Muslim college had come into existence full four decades ahead of BHU.

Savarkar was 23 years old in 1906. By that year, Muslim League had been formed, and a formal demand for separate electorate for Muslims had been submitted to the British.

In 1911, when Tabliq-e-Jamaat had been founded, savarkar was only 28. Even then, throughout his life, Savarkar remained at the fringes. Indian masses were with the Congress. Although the Congress had had prominent and respectable Muslims, Muslim League had decided not to work with them. Syed Ahmed had propounded that policty much before there was any Savarkar.

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Tipu # 89

Benares Hindu University was established in 1916.

Mohammadan Anglo Oriental College (MAO) in Aligarh had been established in 1875. In 1920, Mohammadan Anglo Oriental College was renamed as Aligarh Muslim University.

That means, the Mohammadan Anglo Oriental College had been operating for 41 years before Malviya founded the BHU.

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Urstruly Sahib,

In the past you have supported declaration of Ahmadis as non-Muslims, and partly blamed them for violence against them. You failed to condemn your own mullahs who are at the root of this violence and propaganda … and instead continue to attempt to malign Ahmadis.

In your posts (#77 and now 82) instead of addressing the obvious barbarism of your Islam … you go on to criticize Ahmadis. Your type assumes that those who do not subscribe to your fanaticism are liars and traitors … and quickly move on to shouting abuses. Intellectual and moral degradation brought about by such behavior has become the hallmark of fundamentalist fanatics. Your failure to admit this will ensure that you will continue to live in the gutter you currently exist in.

Coming back to your Islamic fanaticism, here is a short, bitter, and telling quote from Maudoodi, which is often echoed by the fundamentalists of nowadays. Enjoy.

“In our domain we neither allow any Muslim to change his religion nor allow any other religion to propagate its faith” – Maudoodi, Murtad ki saza Islami qanoon mein (“Punishment for Apostates in Islamic Law”), Lahore: Islamic Publications Ltd, 1981, 8th edition, page 32.

ahmadzai #75

Your account is not accurate on several basis.

First of all the split in MQM was created in earl 90`s, probably, in 1991, whereas inter-ethnic carnage was going on since 1986 when Bushra Zaidi died in a bus accident. The inter-ethnic carnage went through several stages; first it was Mohajir-Pakhtoon, when all others remained neutral, the it became Mohajir vs. Punjabi-Pakhtoon where Punjabis and Pakhtoons made an alliance and then it was Mohajir-Sindhi, while PP alliance remained neutral. MQM was split very late after 4-5 years of this inter-ethnic civil war.

As far as involvement of government/military in the civil war is concerned, perhaps the names like Ghaus Ali Shah and Jam Sadiq, Jam Ma`ashooq and Co. ring a bell.

LFO is a constitutional issue. It is being dealt in constitutional manner, right in the assembly. The overwhelming majority of people has refused to accept the diktat of a dictator which he calls a constitution. If constitutions are made that way then no doubt every gun-totting chootya in our country is running a fiefdom of his own. People by nature are law abiding.

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