Forgive me, Danny

sattar2: Please excuse this interruption to the scholarly debate between you and urstruly. I happened to come across this post from our old (but young) friend anNy that was addressed to you on another board:

#113 by anNy on March 3, 2003 9:07am PT
excuse digression please
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sattar2
can u please email me at annythedud@yahoo.com ASAP.
Thanks

Sattar

You are a liar and a slanderer. You lie knowingly and therefore, lose respect with people. I oppose anti-ahmadi legislation and called it anti-Islamic and anti-constitutional and you know it. I do not support killing or death penalty for blasphemy as you must have read in my artcle on blasphemy law. As a matter of fact I oppose death penalty for any crime including that for a rapist and murderer of a 7 year old; and I have argued that in the article and in the debate that followed. I think one who lies is the one who practices hatred. May Lord cleanse your heart of this hatred for the people who do not share your belief and show you the light.



http://63.194.130.82/cgi-bin/show_article.cgi?aid=00001344&channel=university%20ave&start=620&end=629&page=63&chapter=7#33

sobia #22

you just don`t get it, do you?...

pearl`s murder got worldwide coverage not b/c he`s white or jewish but b/c his slaying is emblematic of the hatred that is pakistan and, i`m sorry to say, 21st century islam. you guys hate everyone - the west, americans, indians, the jews, yourselves - you name it - and the problems of the muslims and pakistanis are everyone else`s fault but yours, right?

no atrocity is too horrific for you to minimize, right sobia? not 9/11, not pearl. all you have to say is ``palestine`` or ``everyone hates muslims.``

i don`t hate muslims...but people who can minimize pearl`s brutal slaughter? there`s something seriously wrong with their wiring...although when i think about the state pakistan is in, it explains a lot...

you see, pakistan is in the shape its in not b/c of corrupt politicians or military dictators or even muslim terrorists - it is the embodiment of human misery and failure precisely b/c of people like you

...who tolerate and embrace this hatred

...and who just don`t get it.

Urstruly Sahib (Re #26):

The expletives you used for the military dictatorship … also aptly describe the nature of your mullah. Let’s not forget the role of religious fanaticism in the current mess across the globe.

You plead your case on basis of human rights and civility … while you continue to support oppression and injustice … of course, in the name of Islam. This includes your support for anti-Ahmadi legislation, support for killings on grounds of apostasy and blasphemy, calls for jihad against polytheists, and much more.

It is foolish for one to practice hatred and oppression … and expect the outcome to be based on justice and civility. If you fail to appreciate this basic point … you’ll continue to degenerate intellectually, morally, and emotionally.

ahmadzai: I agree with your assessments regarding MQM and PML-Q`s efforts vis-a-vis the INS registration. Altaf Hussein has destroyed an entire generation while sitting pretty in London. His campaign was a perfect example of the saying that `violence only breeds violence.` However, one must not be too quick to put the blame entirely on the shoulders of MQM and Mohajirs. Many of their grievances were real, but instead of painting the fight as a fight against the establishment, Altaf pitted the Mohajirs against their fellow Pakistani brothers, especially the Punjabis. This is where the whole equation got corrupted IMO. But, the attrocities committed by Benazir and Naseer-ullah Babar during the early nineties come very close to the definition of genocide. Extra-judicial killings, false arrests, harassement of family members, intimidation of local newspapers, etc. were the order of the day during their time. Perhaps, a more balanced approach would divide the blame equally between MQM and the establishment.

The other thing that I do not agree with is your proclaimation that since Mohajirs were the most educated they had a competitive edge which they lost due to their leadership`s incompetence. This is akin to saying that a bullfighter has an edge in the arena because he plays excellent chess. Anyone who has been following our society and economy can testify that education is the last thing that provides any sort of edge in a society ruled by military, feudals and mullahs. In fact, education is an anathema to the survival of our privileged classes. No sir, in Pakistan, being educated is not an asset but a liability. That`s why the educated class always has been and will be persecuted. Altaf Hussein did not have the vision to see it as a war against the triumvirate of fedual, general and mullah. Instead, he filled his coffers by turning Mohajirs against Sindhis, Punjabis and Pathans and vice versa. Hopefully, the young generation of Karachi will realize the blunders made by their elders and work toward a common goal of harmony with other ethnicities instead of staying locked in a fruitless confrontation and an endless circle of violence.

On a side note: Although, not a Bihari myself, I am well aware of the plight of Biharis stranded in Bangladesh. These people, who still call themselves Pakistanis, have been in limbo for decades now. While our government spends millions of dollars in the name of Kashmir, none of us can find even a shred of sympathy for our unfortunate brothers rotting in Bangladeshi camps.

adnan_rafiq #24 you write ``Those who think that the poem was written because the victim was white are practicing racism themselves. Daniel Pearl was a human being and the horrendous circumstances surrounding his death should sadden anyone regardless of race, religion or nationality. ``
Your post provides a befitting response to posters who think that because Danny Pearl was white or jewish his death should not be mourned. To say that hundreds are killed every day and so one death should not be mourned, which is essentially what these people are saying, is the worst possible reasoning I can think of. As Umarmurtaza wrote earlier, if you cant say express sorrow at anyone`s death, then you should keep silent.

Urstruly:

Honestly speaking, the points you have raised have remarkable similarities with Indians` position on the interactive boards of this site when they are thrashing Pakistan. But no hard feelings, please.

Kindly note that:

1. Mohajirs never went through any genocide. Their two factions have killed more of the Mohajirs between them than all of them killed by any other party, including Hindus and Sikhs at the time of partition. Mohajirs were the most educated people and that was their competitive edge. Mr. Altaf Hussain thought to answer Jaheliet of arms toting groups with Jahiliet of his own, letting all Mohajir youngsters to take arms too. Having shunned their competitive edge, Mohajirs are the real loosers under the leadership of Mr. Altaf Hussain.

2. I see a good future of Mohajirs, because Mr. Hussain now has competition from MMA. Both parties have to deliver. And deliver they will. Competition for economic betterment is the name of the game.

3. Do you have real figures about suicides per capita for various countries of the region? Please tell me how many suicides took place in the entire of Pakistan in the year 2002 (or 2001 for that matter)? How many people do you know, who know some one, who know some one .... who has committed suicide ( I am referring to 6 degrees of separation).

4. If Americans are fighting their war on Pakistani soil, they are also fighting their war on many other countries` soils too. Are those countries making any noise? they have dictatorships. Amongst Muslim countries, only Malaysia and Pakistan are making enough noise.

5. The current PML Q Government has adequately stood up for Pakistanis` cause. Not a single other Muslim country worked so hard on INS registration law as did our leadership. This has been acknowledged by American newspapers too. Our leadership is also appropriately resisting American arm twisting on Iraq war. It has raised the issue of Kashmir at each and every forum of the world, has raised the issue of injustice to Pushtoons of Afghanistan, has clearly denied American military`s pursuance of terrorists into Pakistan, etc.

I hope you understand. Please acknowledge good deeds vis-a-vis other comparable Governments.

Again, no hard feelings, please:)

It looks like the killing of Daniel Paarl was the biggest tragedy, poems are being written and numerous articles appearing in various vernaculars all over the world. Not surprising, there is a picture of Daniels Pearl’s wife holding a baby in the Time Special issue. Why is so much importance given to the death one human, whereas thousands of deaths, those who died under the carpet of US bombs in Afghanistan or Iraq or some other part of the world go unnoticed. Forgive me all those people who were killed by the US bombs, there is no poem written for you…

ahamadzai & sobia

Our country is in deep shit because we have been told since the day one, to shut up and bear the ``injustice`` for the good times that never comes. We lost half of the country because we were made to shut up at the injustices of haramzadas who rule us. The history of 1971, repeated itself and a 16 year long civil war is being fought in Karachi where people had to go through the worst ethnic cleansing and genocide (of Mohajirs) by the state, and we were told to shut up. How the hell is this country going to be better off, when we have turned it into Pinochet`s Chile where kidnapping and murder by state is business as usual. How the hell is our country better off, when it has no constitution and there hasn`t been any legislation for the past 4 years. Beats me. The only people who are better off are the military who are richer, have more land, and are more powerful then ever before. What about Paksitanis- yes they are better off committing suicides.

The people of US might be safe in their country with anti-Muslim discriminatory laws and turning their country into police state under department of homeland security, but what about us. They are fighting their wars in our countries. where is our homeland security? we don`t have resources to save us from our own government, Americans and the people who are fighting Americans- who the hell is going to save us? where do we turn to?

Human beings have rights, period. There is no compromise on that. ``Some idiots`` have rights too. Jeffery Dhamers, Milosovics, Modis, Vajpayees, advanis and Javed Iqbals have rights too. It is a right of fair trial in an open court of justice. That is what makes us civilized and them the terrorists - being civilized comes at a price; if we can`t pay the price we have no right to call ourselves civilized. People of Paksitan have rights too - to live like human beings and not like cattle, under constitution, which military has always used as a toilet paper; and which they swore that they would protect with their lives. There is no compromise on constitutional rights - what it means is that the haramzadas who are running our country have to work harder - instead of chewing on our juglars they should stand up for us (and not for US). That is what they swore that they would do. isn`t it?

Sarwari: Nice poem. Don`t worry about the saffron brigade trying to find faults in a sincere apology. These are the same people who accuse moderate Muslims of not speaking out against terrorism or the attrocities committed in the name of our religion. But, when someone does, its readily interpreted as appeasement. Damned if we do, damned if we don`t! Clearly, there is a much more deep-rooted insecurity and complex at work here which does not let our neighbors enjoy their recent success. Tsk, tsk, tsk...

As for the mullah brigade, how does mourning Pearl`s death suggest that the poet is disregarding the deaths of her fellow countrymen? Those who think that the poem was written because the victim was white are practicing racism themselves. Daniel Pearl was a human being and the horrendous circumstances surrounding his death should sadden anyone regardless of race, religion or nationality.

Sobia at # 22:

Please read my post at # 20.

FBI is accompanying local police all over the world, including all the Muslim countries. No body is making noise, because they know who they are pitted against. We are being unnecessarily emotional. If the Pakistanis being caught are innocent, the injustice will lose. Justice will win. Eventually, all of them will be free. Let us just swallow our pain for a while and prepare ourselves for the future.

If those caught are guilty, then we really don`t need to sympathise with them since their actions are not helping Pakistanis or the Muslims a bit.

Note that these troubling times will pass for the betterment.

...very poignant, aisha...may he r.i.p....

Soppy stuff...seems like the author`s trying too hard...

Daniel Pearl`s murder got worldwide coverage because the bad bad Muslims killed him.. and because he was white and Jewish...

I`m not saying what happened to Pearl is acceptable or should be condoned, but what is happening to the citizens of Pakistan when they are accosted every day by the FBI and the local polica gundas in the name of the War Against Terrorism is something we should be more concerned about.

While Daniel Pearl`s gruesome murder is an unforgivable act of crime, the average number of Pakistanis killed in Karachi city alone is 700 a year. Does anyone care two hoots for them? This poem exemplifies the Pakistani fascination for anyone with a fair skin.

In response to Urstruly at # 13 and Sobia at # 17:

It is the US Troika which is deciding the fate of the world at large. No matter where the so called Al Qaeda Terrorists are being caught, its FBI right behind the local police - Germany, UK, Yemen, you name it. But those countries are not making any noise. Why? Because they know their limitations. They know who has the power.

My sincere advice to people of Pakistani origin is to stop being emotional and do an analysis of the situation on the basis of reasoning and logic.

Is it better to keep harboring some idiots whose actions are only benefitting our enemies?

Is it reasonable to unnecessarily challenge the only super power to get destroyed within a week time?

Is it a moral thing to burn the flags of other countries?

Or do we really care for Pakistan and want to make it a role model on the basis of our economic and military strength. If yes, then we will have to bare the current wave of `injustice` with a little patience.

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