Forgive me, Danny

Sobia
The reason why Pearl`s death was a significant event for some Indians was that Omar Shiekh, one of the conspirators in Pearl`s kidnapping had kidnapped foreigners in India before and had been arrested when those kidnapped were freed(one Indian police officer was killed during the rescue).

The group Harkat Mujahiddeen which hijacked an Indian Airline to get Omar Shiekh freed from Indian jail a few years later had also kidnapped other foreigners in J&K in early 90s and even beheaded one of them. One of the rest escaped, the others are still missing and their wives used to make yearly visits to India to appeal to militant groups(they even met Omar Shiekh in jail) to give any news of their husbands. So what Ms Daniel Pearl wnet through, other women had already been put through by this same group.

And all this was known to the Pakistani govt. all along, but they not only refused to extradite to India Omar Shiekh and his group, guilty of kidnappings, multiple murders, hijacking of an airline(and killing a newly married Indian passenger during the hijack), but also allowed them to walk free and operate freely in Pakistan and as consequence they could do what they pleased with Daniel Pearl. Even when Omar Shiekh was arrested by Pakistani police, it was only after he had spent a week with the Pakistani intelligence agencies after surrendering to them.

At the time of his death, Daniel Pearl was on the trail of jihadi groups and had just written an article from Bahawalpur about how the Pakistani govt. had done nothing about the increasing jihadi activities of Jaish-e-Mohammad, a group started by another guy, former HuM, also released in the Indian Airlines hijack.

The Daniel Pearl murder was certainly not just any random murder. Its in Pakistanis own interests that the full truth comes out.

adnan_rafiq #45

This hilarious news item has gotten quite a lot of play in the paki press.

Do you even have any idea what the New Hampshire Legislator`s actual job function is? It is local issues like hunting and education in the state of New Hampshire. They have not the slightest relationship to any foreign policy issue. Besides, after this the local indians will be all over them like flies over honey. So it may be the least you hear from them on this issue.

I think you should get in contact with some other groups as well. They would all be happy to have a junket out to Pakistan or elsewhere. Here are some others:

Traffic Police in Toledo, OH
Mayor of SomeZeroTown, CA
Sanitation Workers Union of NY

Please have them issue statements about US foreign policy and even take them to Pakistan (oops, some of the infidel may not make it back!).

Sobia #47 Sorry if I sounded more nasty than I meant to be (I must remember to be more precise in the level of nastiness in my post). :-) But seriously, isnt it sad that we cannot remember and mourn the appalling murder of a person who was a father, a husband, and son, and a brother without someone explaining that we are wrong in doing so?
And you are wrong in assuming that I am calling all Indians ``Lowlife`` on this board - please re-read carefully what I wrote, and you will see that I am referring to two individuals and putting you in their company. if you had been on chowk as long as I have been, I dont think you would disagree on my assessment of Jay. The only rational assessment I can think of is that the man has been driven mad by his hatred for Pakistan. But I did injustice to you and hxn (or whatever his name is) in lumping you with Jay. I have the pleasure of knowing many fine people from India, and Jay bears no relationship to them (other than in his own demented mind).

sobia:

...to gain a better perspective i hope you have read # 47 in full…specially where it mentions shaikh omar...

....some other random thoughts that come to mind:

---think it was last year when mushy came to address the UN session...shaikh omar had already surrendered to isi the week before...but mushy was not informed of this...and he kept assuring his hosts that daniel`s murderer would soon be caught…it appeared that isi is a power unto itself…

---this shaikh omar character alongwith ‘maulana’ azhar of Jaish infamy languished in indian jails for years...the GOI failed royally to prosecute or bring charges against him...

…t

sobia #35

``All I’m saying is there is NO justification for ANYONE’s killing``

don`t agree there either. the people who murdered Danny Pearl should be killed. the people who murdered 3,000 americans on sept 11, 2001 should be killed. the people who killed 200 in bali should be killed. and those that minimize the actions of these groups? talk about ``root causes`` and ``freedom struggles``? something should be done about them too b/c they allow these murderers to thrive...

tahmed

when someone talks about pearl`s murder, its understandable that you as a pakistani, might get defensive (like sobia). but the fact remains, his murder is tied to fundamental pakistani hatreds.

the evidence?

1.) as sadna pointed out in a previous post, omar sheikh was released from an indian jail through an airline hijacking a few years ago. pakistan let him roam free. why? b/c he was a terrorist in kashmir, killing foreigners and indians, and even ``law abiding`` pakistanis are sympathetic to this cause (not to mention willing to sell pakistan to anyone who`ll get kashmir - including al qaeda). if omar sheikh wasn`t killing people in kashmir, do you think you pakistanis would`ve let him go free?

2. people like sobia. look at the way she minimizes pearl, saying that people only care about him b/c he`s white and jewish. if that isn`t pakistani hatred, then what is? you, admirably, disavowed those views, but come on yaar, do you seriously think her views are in the minority amongst pakis...

truth hurts, doesn`t it?

PS: apologies!...the post # is 42.

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hxn #54 And so, would you extend your logic and attribute the murders of the christian missionaries in India, or the Gujrat burnings of families, to the fundamental hatreds of Indians?
Murderers roam free in Pakistan, and that is bad indeed. But let me humbly point out that criminals win elections and become Chief Ministers in India, as in case of Modi. And that is very very bad indeed.

Having performed the ritual India-Pakistan contest, let me say seriously that as a Pakistani I am angry that the Pakistan government has allowed known murderers from India go free in Pakistan. We should these criminals back to India - we have enough criminals of our own polluting society, we dont need any more.

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temporal
GOI failed royally? They were in jail, thats the maximum punishment one usually gets in India. People donot get death sentences arbitrarily in India like in Pakistan. Death sentenceas are handed out only in the rarest of the rare cases. Even Rajiv Gandhi`s killers/conspirators went through very long court and clemency process. One of them was finally granted clemency and the others were executed only last year or so.

tahmed # 55

i`ll concede that point.

the brutal murder of the christian missionaries and his children was absolutley sick and a huge blot on india, as has been all the communal violence in recent years including Gujurat.

and i also concede that these events are related to larger trends in indian society.

i hope that the slow march to market reform and greater freedom that pluralistic india has embarked on will allow us to overcome these evils.

i might be on shakier ground here and few pakis on this board may believe me, but as you, even when i put ``the ritual`` indo-pak contest aside, i do feel pakistan is in worse shape. the pearl murder is directly linked to sept. 11, to kashmir, and the fundamental muslim resentments/inferiority complexes about other religions and peoples that led to the creation of the country in the first place - just an ever downward spiraling whirlwind of hate. but hey, that`s just my take.

Correction to #58
In 1999 clemency petitions were filed with the President of India. In 2001, and after Sonia Gandhi`s appeal to award clemency, the death sentence of one of them who was a woman with a child was commuted to life imprisonment. The other 3 have not been hanged yet.

hxn #59 I think we have had a reasonable discussion, even if we have somewhat different views on the situation regarding religious extremism in India vs. Pakistan.
I think we both agree that religious extremism is a problem in both countries. Whether religious extremism is a bigger problem in India than in Pakistan, and whether there is broader based support for religious extremism than in India than in Pakistan is something we could debate ad nauseum, but it would be a bit like debating which of the two ugly sisters is uglier.
Instead, I think let us both wish all the best to the future of this armpit of the world we call home (i.e. the subcontinent), and let us both be thankful that the average person in the subcontinent has more sense than the ``educated specimen`` who visit chowk for purposes of engaging in India-Pakistan self-aggrandizement and mutual-insult competitions.
Cheers :-)

Urstruly …

While you are working on explaining the peaceful aspects of your Islam … feel free to also shed light on the peaceful aspects of killing people for apostasy and adultery …

I know hotel California is one thing … and its unplugged version was a bad idea … but must we drag this nonsense into real life … and hunt people down like hound dogs … if, after once flirting with the idea of waiting for 70 chicks in the hereafter, they decided that a bird in hand is better than two in the bush?

So they get to pick … either do the nasty and get killed for adultery … or revoke their pledge to the Almighty and get killed for apostasy. I know a choice between coke and pepsi is always good … but isn’t this death-fatwa thing pushing the limits too far? And besides, what good has your Islam done to your goat-screwing Arab leaders anyway … they cannot even hold a f#%king summit on Iraq … without shouting obscenities and death threats to each other. The live telecast was taken off the air … I read recently.

I know you got angry when Junior warned … “either you are with us, or against us” … but he was probably quoting from your Quran or a book on ahadith. After all … you are the one to tell us that Mohammad had people killed for merely making fun of him … and that Quran commands us to wage jihad against those worshipping cows and kangaroos.

Ground reality is that you mullahs are screaming for civil rights and due process … because you are now dealing with someone who carries a bigger stick. You started this mess … now deal with it. Or better yet … with one hand holding your shalwar above the ankles … grab a talwar in the other hand … yell takbeer … and make a dash towards that big white building. You’ll become famous overnight … and will immediately get to make out with 70 chicks all at once!

FORGIVE ME SAMIA SARWAR,

I know my name is similar to yours,
only an ``i`` is missing
Stll I cannot remeber your name
It is strange that a man cross the border
That too a horrible hindoo
Keeps your name alive

I talked to tahmed about you
And he said that your were no-innocent
And according to tahmed
That is certain jihadic death

I talked to YLH about you
He quoted from wolpert
He quoted from one speach
And he kept quoting, I left him alone.

I still cannot remeber you
Many like you are dead
Why should you be special
Because I could be you tomorrow.

A poem NOt by Ayesha Sarwari

adnan 45

``And never have I seen an Indian to mention the human cost of oppression at the hand of their armed forces in Kashmir and the human cost of Muslims slaughtered in Gujrat as the police and other authorities stood at the side lines.``

Pl read dawn, the daily report to the jihadic supporters in various parts of the world. There are 70,000 killed in kashmir, 800,000 troops in srinagar, 8000 muslims killed in gujarat.

Now can you tell me how many shaheeds in pakistan, the type that left the madrassa, went looking for the kafirs to kill, the archetypal homo erectus pakistanicus. Tell me adnan, how many killed, sorry, martyred in afghanistan, how many in kashmir. As a pakistani, no one keeps count, they are the un-countables of pakistan, the men driven by the species specific urge to kill homo sapiens. There is no ther country in the world today where men have gone of their own volition, no ecnomic incentives, but the raw urge to kill in the promise of a heaven. Adnan, pakistan is singular in this achievement to the extent that anthropologists have coined a new term, hono erectus pakistanicus.