Forgive me, Danny

Urstruly Sahib,

You are displaying signs of hopelessness … and prolonged intellectual decay. You have given up on the defense of “Islamic” practices of killing people for apostasy, adultery, blasphemy … waging war on polytheists just because … and social benefits of persecuting innocent Ahmadis. Your Islam is dead and rotting … and making a big stink. And you are dealing with it by taking your frustration out on Ahmadis.

You suggest that … one should not criticize the hard liners since it will only make their attitude stricter. So should I write poetry in their praise? If you folks cannot accept your basic faults … then go jump off a cliff. The world is better off without idiots like you. You cannot hold a nation hostage and expect to be showered with sympathy and understanding.

Mirza Sahib’s words you quoted … are consistent with the spirit of Quran … that there was no Islamic basis for waging jihad against the British. This position was favored by several, not all, thinkers and scholars of his time … who supported the British for putting an end to oppression of Muslims at the hands of some fanatic Hindu and Sikh elements in some parts of India. Your mullahs were only interested in war mongering and hatred and were therefore upset with the Ahmadi-Muslim community. It is worth pointing out that … while claiming to be peaceful and loving folks … your mullahs advocate waging war against others for merely preaching their beliefs! It is clear who is a fanatic here.

It is this fundamentalist culture of hatred, oppression, and violence that is mainly responsible for the current conflict. My prayers and sympathies are always with the innocent folks … whoever or wherever they are. If I fail to show much sympathy for the rabid hate mongers of your kind … I claim innocence on grounds of sanity and civility.

+++++++++++++

Tahmed Sahib, thanks for the message … I am sure I would have missed it otherwise. Thanks, once again.

Sattar that does it……I told you I am against anti-Quadiani laws along with proof but you unnecessarily blasted me. For that Sattar…….. tujh peh khuda ki la’anat kay das laakh jootay barsaiN, 1 la’anat, 2 la’anat, 3 la’anat, 4 la’anat, 4 la’anat, ……200 la’anat, 201 la’anat, 202 la’anat, la’anat, la’anat, la’anat, la’anat, 204 la’anat, …… 578 la’anat, 579 la’anat, 580 la’anat, ……994 la’anat, 995 la’anat, 996 la’anat, 997 la’anat, la’anat, 998 la’anat, 999 la’anat, 1000 la’anat.

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#84 Tipu

Do you have a reading problem? Or maybe some kind of mental disorder? Your hate-ridden and racist statements towards brahmins have nothing to do with the article I posted.

#76 adnan_rafiq

Thanks for your note. Now you are talking about ground realities and problem solving, not all kinds of one-sided ``historical injustice`` stories of which there is an infinite supply in South Asia.

You should be aware that Nawaz and Vajpayee came very close to making some kind of start at settlement of J&K issues. Post-Kargil and Musharraf there is very little room in India for adjustments, flexibility etc. With the indian general elections looming in 2004, there will be little or no room for maneuver. I do not think any indian leader will deal with Musharraf for the next few years anyway.

I think the best bet is to calm the situation down (no more jihadis) in the area and wait it out. The general indian offer in this space is also been clear for some time. Some kind of autonomy deal for Kashmir with stronger integration of Ladakh and Jammu within India, soft borders for Kashmiri residents on both sides of the LOC. I think the pakistanis can feel that helped the Kashmiris win ``azadi`` (autonomy), the indians can feel that J&K remains within the indian orbit and constitution.

None of this can happen while Kashmir liberation days are being celebrated in Pakistan and public support for jihad continues to be displayed. So for now the situation is hard to change. The best we can do is minimize suffering of the people of J&K.

The sources said that based on the information gleaned from the documents, Pakistani officials believe that Al-Zawahiri, an Egyptian doctor who is thought to be the brains of Al Qaeda, slipped back into Pakistan after fleeing Afghanistan in October 2001, and hiding for some time in the Middle East. But Al-Zawahiri and Osama are not together, the sources said.

Khalid Shaikh Mohammed fled from Karachi last September after another key Al Qaeda operative, Ramzi bin Al Shibh, was captured, and went to Quetta. He left Quetta last month after one of his team members, identified as Asadullah, an Egyptian by nationality, was picked up during a joint FBI-ISI raid. He moved first to Lahore, then to Rawalpindi, the sources said.

////adnan, take it easy, the above is from dawn, it is not holier than thou from me. This only shows the roots of taliban in pakistan, the sfe houses the links,

adnan,

I did dish out some numbers about the kashmiris killed by the indian troops. Now as a typical pakistani you do not want to give some numbers to the afghan and kashmir shaheeds of pakistan. This is really pathetic, theses are the true un-countables of pakistan. From the local papaers, from the mosques, from the jihadic organisation, pl do come up with a number.
About the holier than thou attitude of mine, well I has said befor, I am a professional paki-basher..(there are two full stops after that)

#83 by Tipu on March 5, 2003 9:22pm PT

What a waste of words (and space)!! And NOW, will you please let us know what you`re trying to say?

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Dear Aisha,

Great Poem to bring back something I had internalized... In my letter to Friday Times last year (back in the good old Rutgers` days), which Marianne Pearl was kind enough to quote in New York Times, I had proposed a monument... if that ever goes through maybe we can put this poem on it Inshallah.


It is amazing how some people are so motivated by hate as to use every possible board to spurt out their verbiage of hate ... jay being the case in point... I have ignored him for so long but he still doesn`t cease from taking pot shots at me ... usually his claims are based on half truths lies and misquotes... I mean how long has it been since I last mentioned `Wolpert`? 2 years? Maybe more? He was perhaps one of the many authors I quoted and perhaps the one I used the least... yet since I don`t pay attention to Jay`s barking anymore he has taken to attack me poetically now...

If one doesn`t boast about one`s activities must it be assumed that he isn`t doing anything. I have been called all sorts of names by people here because unlike the self proclaimed social workers I use this board for simple academic discussion ... Unlike the arm chair social activists on this board, thank God I am today actively involved (IN REALITY not in CYBERSPACE) in stamping out injustice from the Pakistani society which is dearer to me than anything else in the world. We the Pakistanis have been victims of a warped military machine called the Pakistan Army... which sadly knows how to conquer its own people but knows very little of beating India. Late Zia ul Haq through his gun institutionalized discrimination against women and minorities... it takes something to fight against this in person... unlike many I am not sitting in the west spurting out long monologues... I am doing my part where it makes a difference.

I for one am not oblivious to the faults of my country... and my people. Only a fool will be... For Pakistan to succeed, it will have to come face to face with the skeletons in its closet and when I am done with it, there would be no more for hate mongerers like Jay to point fingers to.


A Tolerant, Progressive and liberal Pakistan Zindabad!

-YLH

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ahmadzai #75

Your account is not accurate on several basis.

First of all the split in MQM was created in earl 90`s, probably, in 1991, whereas inter-ethnic carnage was going on since 1986 when Bushra Zaidi died in a bus accident. The inter-ethnic carnage went through several stages; first it was Mohajir-Pakhtoon, when all others remained neutral, the it became Mohajir vs. Punjabi-Pakhtoon where Punjabis and Pakhtoons made an alliance and then it was Mohajir-Sindhi, while PP alliance remained neutral. MQM was split very late after 4-5 years of this inter-ethnic civil war.

As far as involvement of government/military in the civil war is concerned, perhaps the names like Ghaus Ali Shah and Jam Sadiq, Jam Ma`ashooq and Co. ring a bell.

LFO is a constitutional issue. It is being dealt in constitutional manner, right in the assembly. The overwhelming majority of people has refused to accept the diktat of a dictator which he calls a constitution. If constitutions are made that way then no doubt every gun-totting chootya in our country is running a fiefdom of his own. People by nature are law abiding.

Urstruly Sahib,

In the past you have supported declaration of Ahmadis as non-Muslims, and partly blamed them for violence against them. You failed to condemn your own mullahs who are at the root of this violence and propaganda … and instead continue to attempt to malign Ahmadis.

In your posts (#77 and now 82) instead of addressing the obvious barbarism of your Islam … you go on to criticize Ahmadis. Your type assumes that those who do not subscribe to your fanaticism are liars and traitors … and quickly move on to shouting abuses. Intellectual and moral degradation brought about by such behavior has become the hallmark of fundamentalist fanatics. Your failure to admit this will ensure that you will continue to live in the gutter you currently exist in.

Coming back to your Islamic fanaticism, here is a short, bitter, and telling quote from Maudoodi, which is often echoed by the fundamentalists of nowadays. Enjoy.

“In our domain we neither allow any Muslim to change his religion nor allow any other religion to propagate its faith” – Maudoodi, Murtad ki saza Islami qanoon mein (“Punishment for Apostates in Islamic Law”), Lahore: Islamic Publications Ltd, 1981, 8th edition, page 32.

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Tipu # 89

Benares Hindu University was established in 1916.

Mohammadan Anglo Oriental College (MAO) in Aligarh had been established in 1875. In 1920, Mohammadan Anglo Oriental College was renamed as Aligarh Muslim University.

That means, the Mohammadan Anglo Oriental College had been operating for 41 years before Malviya founded the BHU.

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