Kashmir: Time for a Radical Approach?

harimau #21: I agree with princely states status including Hyderabad and Junagadh but my point was that an agreement between parties before the existence of India and Pakistan has no meaning officially for the nations of India and Pakistan. Both Pakistan and India existed only after midnight between August 14 and 15, 1947.

The current status of Kashmir is only meaningful in the lights of Tashkent, Shimla or Lahore agreements - if there were any, because those are the agreements between two independent nations and not political parties. Parties act according to different priciples than nations. The JI or JUI can recognize Taliban`s right to rule Afghanistan but Pakistan as a nation does no longer accepts Taliban as legitimate rulers of Afghanistan. Similarly ML of Jinnah represented Muslims of subcontinent and not Pakistanis. Now Pakistan makes up only about 1/3 of total subcontient Muslims and can not speak on behalf of all Muslims.

For example, Colombia considers creation of Panama as unfair or forced separation from Colombia but Panama can not accept it because Panama did not exist at the time of unfair separation under influence from USA.

What is India`s motivation is seeking a negotiated settlment? They have expressed none of the desire for a negotiated settlement, rather their position is ``sign here``. Seems to me, we misread the circumstance, the Indian economy is doing well, thank you, it`s armed forces brim with confidence, it has created a consensus among it`s poulation base that confrontation has paid dividends, all of this while a stuggle involving not only internal suppression but the possibility of armed hostility between the armed forces of both countries - so really, what`s the motivation for the Indian??

People of sub-continet cannot come out of their poverty and other problems unless the Kashmir issue is resolved. Kashmir issue cannot be resolved unless leaders from both countries discuss this issue on the table.

People of the sub-continet should use their common sense to find out which party is trying to avoid the peacful discussion on the table.

They need not waste their own time in the arguments which are based on the propaganda of their incapable leadership. If they think that there`s some weight in the propaganda of their leadership, then they should tell their leadership to speak the facts on the table instead of keeping the issue unresolved for years and years and years.

nomani # 24 wrote:

``Why do they wish to keep the Kashmiri families divided across LoC permanently?``

By Kashmiri, nomani probably means Kashmiri speaking Muslim families. I don`t think Buddhist Ladakhis, Hindu Kashmiris or Hindus & Sikhs of Jammu are certainly not divided by the LoC.

In fact, not too many of the Kashmiri Muslim families are divided either. Kashmiri language is far less significant in ``Azad`` Kashmir than it is in Jammu & Kashmir in India across the LoC.

(1) According to latest census figures, only about 100,000 in PoK(Pakistan Occupied Kashmir) claim Kashmiri as their mother tongue. This is in sharp contrast to Jammu & Kashmir across the LoC where more than 4 million claim Kashmiri as their mother tongue.

(2) Kashmiri speakers lack the critical mass to be significant in PoK. They form a mere 2% of the population. In sharp contrast, nearly the half the population of Jammu & Kashmir claim Kashmiri as their mother tongue.

(3) Institute of Kashmir Studies in Muzaffarabad does some language promotion - but observers have acknowledged that it is a lost cause in PoK.

nomani should note that Article 370 of the Indian Constitution perpetuated the erstwhile kingdom`s rule that barred ``outsiders`` from owning immovable property in Jammu & Kashmir. This has served to preserve the demography of Jammu & Kashmir on the Indian side of the LoC. That, unfortunately, is not true on the Pakistani side of LoC and ``Azad`` Kashmir quickly got swamped by immigrants from Punjab and NWFP. Today, in PoK, you are far more likely to hear Punjabi/Lahandi/Pothwari than Kashmiri.

Jay #16 and arjun #22 rsaxena #18: see everything through unique tunnel visioned glasses with help from letters to the ediors, TNT, K for Kalam litany…under freedom of speech they can say what they wish…they are the resident bigots …it is not possible to reason with them.

rsaxena #18 as usual has nothing to say of significance. He is one of the eminent resident bigots here and stands exposed for what he is.

worth repeating my last post to him on a previous board:

#87 by temporal on March 31, 2003 1:35pm PT
rsaxena # 4 and # 63:

mr saxena:

you are exposed for what you are --- a bigot!

rgds,

t
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Bigot (n.) n.

---a person who regards his own faith and views in matters of religion as unquestionably right, and any belief or opinion opposed to or differing from them as unreasonable or wicked. In an extended sense, a person who is intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to his own church, party, belief, or opinion.

---Synonyms: actor, attitudinizer, backslider, bigot, bluffer, casuist, charlatan, cheat, con man, crook, deceiver, decoy, dissembler, dissimulator, fake, faker, four-flusher, fraud, hook, humbug, imposter, impostor, informer, lip server, malingerer, masquerader, moutebank, pharisee, phony, playactor, poser, pretender, quack, sham, sharper, smoothie, sophist, stool pigeon, swindler, trickster, two-face, two-timer, whited sepulcher, wolf

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Pakistani Perspective

There is no radical approach to this problem. Only solution is persistence and perseverance. Pakistan has legal and moral right over Kashmir by all standards of justice and common sense. If Paksitan insists on holding a plebicte in Kashmir, even then it is a concession and a previlege to Kashmiri people - its the best of all solutions which gives all parties face saving opportunity. Until that happens Paksitan has to adopt a multilateral approach to address this problem (which it already is doing):

1. Explain to common Indians that their occupation of a land and oppression of people who do not want to live with them is immoral and illegal. Indians are human beings, some of them must have a living conscience - we must be persistent until they realize that.

2. Give political, militaristic, ideological and logistic support to the freedom fighters.

3. And be prepared for liberation of Kashmir through military intervention, as and when the opportunity offers itself.

4. To help Indians realize that freedom strugle now has a life of its own, it has a momentum of its own - which is unstopable, therefore, economic and human cost to India is lot more than Paksitan (because Paksitan has an option to get out of picture and yet the struggle will go on) - after all this freedom strugle is happening in the territory under their control not ours.


Therefore, a multipronged approach is necessary; with persistence, prudence, and perseverance. Peace without justice is not possible.

Indian Perspective

From Indian perspective, there however is a radical solution, which I have presented on tens of other boards. Acting on these points may even neutralize Paksitan`s moral stand on holding a plebicite even. In either case the key to the solution of Kashmir issue is in INdian hands:1. India must declare absolute amnesty to all freedom fighter groups with absolutely no strings attached. Who doesn`t want to live in peace.? This action will help separate those who want peace from those who dont.

2. India must formally apologize to all Kashmiris for inflicting so much misery and pain to its people using state aparatus.

3. India must specifically apologize to all victims of rape by its army and law enforcement agencies.

4. India must establish rape crisis centers all around Kashmir to provide releif to the rape victims. Hindu social workers, preferably women, from mainland India must come to Kashmir to heel the emotional wounds that these unfortunate women have suffered.

5. India must establish special victim units to provide relief to the orphans and widows of those Kashmiris whose fathers and husbands died fighting for freedom of their homeland.

6. India must immediately abolish the draconian law such as Disturbed Area act of 1990, which gives absolute authority to Indian Army to murder or rape any one without impunity.

7. India must give Kashmir a special economic rebuild package, for the next ten years to cover all the loses that Kashmiris have suffered at the hand of state apparatus.

8. All the illegally established torture cells, interogation canters must immediately be shut down all acreoss Kashmir.

9. The death squads of Indian Army who hunt for freedom fighters, and set the villages abalze when can`t find them must be called off.

10. International Human rights orgs must be allowed into Kashmir to monitor all these actions.

Issue of Kashmir should be resolved according to the will of Kashmir people. We should respect their opinion about their land. Indian and Pakistani people have no right to impose their decision on them. Who are we to convert LoC to a permanent border which splits Kashmiris for ever? Why don`t we remove LoC according to the demand of the majority of Kashmiris? Why do we support the wrong stance? It`s not good for our own future to compromise on principles.

We shouldn`t forget that LoC was imposed on Kashmiris. It`s a temporary arrangement which is observed by UN observers. It could be removed and normalacy could be restored in Kashmir if relevent UN resolutions are respected.

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What plans Indian govt has for the prosperity and progress of Kashmir? It can apply all those schemes in India. There`re many areas which need attention. As far as pundits are concerned, they can migrate to other parts of India. There`re many Kashmiris in India who can migrate back if Kashmir is given freedom.

It`s high time for Indian govt to adopt a logical approcah about Kashmir now. It wasted a lot of Kashmiris` time to win their support but failed. Therefore, it should quit Kashmir instead of wasting more time and men there. Sooner the better.

Re: #26 by HisExcellency

Readers, in general, and HisExcellency, in particular, will find the following reference book to be fascinating as well:

DRUGS IN SOUTH ASIA: FROM THE OPIUM TRADE TO THE PRESENT DAY by M. Emdad-ul-Haq; MacMillan Press; Distributed by Vanguard Books Lahore; Pp319; Price UKP45

The author is a professor of political science at Chittagong University.

The book chronicles how the military caused Pakistan`s ruination in its single-minded zeal to line its own pocket. It is the military that has held a monopoly over the drug trade and gun running in Pakistan. When General Ziaul Haq came to power there were practically no heroin addicts in Pakistan. By the time he died, the heroin addicts in Pakistan numbered over a million.

Today`s secterian killings and Kalashnikov culture are a direct byproduct of the military`s gun running.

The situation in Kashmir cannot improve unless the status of Kashmir is settled first according to wishes of Kashmiri people.

You want to try something radical? Try a plebiscite.

Elections have been tried before. Self-proclaimed tigers like Sheikh Abdullah, Mufti Sayeed, Farooq Abdullah have come and gone. The people have seen that matinee show before.

Wars have been tried before. Both sides fight each other for a couple of weeks in Kashmir. Pakistan intrudes into India at some points, India intrudes into Pakistan at some locations. A stalemate is reached, foreign governments rush in to effect a ceasefire. Nothing is solved, the endless circle of more military preparation followed by another stalemated war continues.

Bilateral talks have also been tried before. From Simla to Lahore to Agra, we have had several bilateral talks.. talks that never proceed from ``chai and poetry`` to the real issues. The only real talks we had were at Tashkent in the presence of Russians. Without third-party involvement, even bilateral talks will be meaningless.

Plebiscite, the ``P`` word that gives Indians sleepless nights, may be the best option. But if that doesn`t materialize, the second best option is a negotiated settlement sponsored by the U.S., Russia and/or China.

Re: #26 by HisExcellency

The military has been milking the civilian sector with impunity. Readers, in general, and HisExcellency, in particular, will find the following reference book to be very informative & educational:

Military, State and Society in Pakistan
by Hasan Askari Rizvi
St.Martin`s Press, New York

The author, Dr. Hasan Askari Rizvi, is a renowned political and defence analyst. He holds PhD in International Relations and Political Science from the University of Pennsylvania, USA. He has taught at Columbia University, New York, Heidelberg University, Germany, and the University of the Punjab,Lahore.

Dr. Hasan Rizvi has pointed out that the induction of military personnel to civilian jobs has been institutionalized in a manner that led to what British Professor S E Finer describes as the ``military colonisation of other institutions`` whereby ``the military acts as a reservoir or core of personnel for the sensitive institutions of the state``.

In fact, even the universities haven`t been able to resist this colonisation! I am not surprised that General Pervez Musharraf has been commenting with authority and impunity on the educational qualifications of Benazir Bhutto even as he spreads the word on his own educational qualifications thru his minions. Dr Hasan Askari Rizvi, has pointed out:

``Six civilian universities had retired Army officers as their Vice Chancellors. The University of Balochistan was headed by a retired Brigadier in the eighties. In 2001, a retired Brigadier was appointed Pro-Vice Chancellor of Balochistan University. A Major General served as Vice Chancellor of Peshawar University for a brief period in 1993. A Lt General worked as Vice Chancellor of the Punjab University in 1993-97. The government`s plan to appoint another Lt General as his successor was scuttled by the boycott threat of the faculty and negative editorials in some newspapers. However, in September 1999, the Punjab`s civilian government appointed a retired Lt General as Vice Chancellor of the Punjab University.

The PU faculty went on strike as protest against this appointment. However, after the military assumed power by dislodging the civilian government in October 12, 1999, the PU faculty had to call off the strike. Several key administrative posts of the Punjab University are also held by retired Army officers. A Lt. General was appointed Vice Chancellor of the Engineering University, Lahore, in 1998. The Vice Chancellor of Engineering University Peshawar, is also a retired senior military officer. The Vice Chancellor of Quaid-i-Azam University, Islamabad, is both retired Army officer and former senior bureaucrat. Some Brigadiers were given academic appointments in Quaid-i-Azam University, Islamabad, in the eighties by changing the university rules.``

Military has been calling the shots in Pakistan for much of its history. General Pervez Musharraf`s goal has been to do everything possible to perpetuate the military`s primacy in every sector of Pakistan.

The military is trained to defend the country`s frontiers, and even extend them. But Pakistan`s military has extended its reach far beyond what it receives training for. Needless to say, Pakistan is the loser.

Pakistan`s military has been the defacto rulers of the country for most of its history. It has established itself as the mafia that decides who gets to steal in Pakistan and how much. And needless to say, it is the Kakul kleptocrats that are the biggest beneficiaries of the institutionalized stealing.