Kashmir: Time for a Radical Approach?

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#51 by arjun_m:

“…Ok for a minute, i`ll take off my fanatic hindu glasses and see it your way..What do i see? I see an India in which the real power i.e. the Indian politicians can get their people to buy off on converting the LoC into a border...what do i see on the other side? I see a paki army that feeds off the Kashmir issue…”


:)

since you have taken off your ‘glasses’ I am in agreement…that and more is exactly what I am saying too…

I wrote an exhaustive and long post acknowledging and replying to each one of the posters…it has been lost…if I can retrieve it later I would re submit it to chowkl…

But the responses are coming in faster than is possible to reply individually.

Here is the gist of what I said…while reading it please note that am keeping in mind pakistan and its people first …and definitely not from the perch of the Occupying Army of Pakistan and its jayaz-najayaz aulad ISI…

***

Kashmir is a terminal cancer for Pakistan and its people (sans occupying army)…for conditions to improve in pakistan…this cancer has to be treated…since so much time has lapsed…perhaps drastic surgery is needed…

Enough is enough is enough…

if this cancer is not treated even at this stage it would sink us…

these are my views as a concerned pakistani…as a desi…since we cannot clap with one hand…the Indians come into the picture…I have argued it is to the benefit of the India as well…it is just too bad that the real victims… the Muslims, Pandits, Sikhs, Buddhists just become a foot note or unwilling pawn in this sham…

for India this is a non-malignant cancer…it can ride this for longer time frame…hence the urgency to settle and move in is more for Pakistan…

but as several of you have argued…Kashmir is not in the interests of the vested interests in our countries to resolve…it is this mentality….. more than anything else that continues the suffering of the awaam-janata in our lands…

finally for now…whatever it takes…pakistan must remove Kashmir from its priorities and put the suffering masses first…

rgds,

t

ps: now arjun i will put on my blinders too and ignore you if you come back with blinkers on:) theek hay?

Re: nomani in # 44 wrote:

``When we say Kashmiris then we mean the majority of people in Kashmir.``

nomani might want to note that Article 370 of the Indian Constitution perpetuated the erstwhile kingdom`s rule that barred ``outsiders`` from owning immovable property in Jammu & Kashmir. This has served to preserve the demography of Jammu & Kashmir on the Indian side of the LoC. That, unfortunately, is not true on the Pakistani side of LoC. ``Azad`` Kashmir quickly got swamped by immigrants from Punjab and NWFP. Today, in PoK, you are far more likely to hear Punjabi/Lahandi/Pothwari than Kashmiri.

Anyway, democracy doesn`t imply dictatorship of the majority to the point of violating the fundamental rights of a minority or even of an individual. It will not be an exercise in democracy even if an Ayatollah in Iran can show majority support for his fatwa on Salman Rusdie.

``Kashmir Banega Pakistan`` is a slogan to enforce the religious homogeneity of PoK on the rest of Jammu & Kashmir as well. The quarter million Pandits who have been driven out of their ancestral land and are now living in refugee camps in Delhi or Jammu under pitiable conditions are a living testimony of the goals of those that shout ``Kashmir Banega Pakistan`` at the drop of a skull cap.

Re: # 59 by jamshed

``Kashmiris don`t like the presence of Indian govt. (For verification of this a plebiscite could be held but Indian govt avoids it because it already knows what Kashmiris think of it). It should quit Kashmir ASAP.``

Pakstanis don`t like the presence of govt. of the military, by the military and for the military. (For verification of this a plebiscite could be held but Pakistan`s military avoids it because it already knows what Pakistanis think of it). It should quit governing Pakistan ASAP.

And when that happens, it will be a significant step forward in bringing back peace to the erstwhile kingdom of Jammu & Kashmir.

Pakistan has a very strong case on Kashmir. Even a non political person like Musharraf can beat Indian politicians on the table with this case. Indians cannot prove their right on inch of it. That`s why they avoid open discussion on this issue.

Indians know what Kashmiris think of them but they`re not ashamed of themselves. They`re not a respectable nation at all.

India has already lost Kashmir a long ago. It`s not earning anything from it anymore. It`s only spending billions of rupees on its army there. Its people are living the lives of beggars because the Indian govt earns nothing from Kashmir for them. Pakistan shouldn`t let it run away from Kashmir without paying for the damages it did there.

Don`t worry about the Kashmiri pundits. You cannot do injustice with a vast majority just for their sake.

Moreover, they`re not loyal with Kashmir like Pundit Jawahar Lal Nehru. The cheats are very harmful for Kashmir. They alrady enjoyed too much of it. Now the party is over for them.

Amusing to see people support murder of kashmiri pandits and thousands of other kashmiris in support of freedom for them !! Other delusionists believe that Pakistan can compel this or that action in Kashmir (or anywhere). It must be nice to live in your own special dreamworld.

``Don`t worry about the Kashmiri pundits. You cannot do injustice with a vast majority just for their sake. ``


MY SOLUTION:

Since kashmiri Pandits have become a fair game I urge govt of India to follow a ``scorch earth`` policy. The choice should be given to all Paki-minded Kashmiris to migrate to PoK. Anybody who has a Puki-mind and does not migrate should be tried for treason and handed death punishment. Abogate Article 370. Pukis and Chinese were smarter than us. Over time Chinese have been successful in changing the demographics of Tibet and local Chinese are in majority there. Pukis flooded the PoK with Punjabis and now PoK Kashmiris are replaced by Punjabis. After abrogatinf Article 370, India should follow a open door policy, i.e. special incentives should be provided and land given to any Indian from any other part of india wishing to settle in kashmir. Only a non-Muslim majority in kashmir is the surest way to curb terrorism. Thanks vote bank politics and idiotic notions of secularism, Indians couldn`t understand this simple fact. REMEMBER, whereevr Muslims will be in majority, sooner or later they will drive out ALL non-Muslims or convert them or kill them. A muslim can never live in peace with an infidel (non-Muslim) and this is a TRUTH. It is the religious duty of a muslim to wage violent jihad against non-Muslim wherever they are in majority and to use tact whenever they are in a minority as this is what Kuran tells them. It is their religious duty to convert the darul-harab into darul-Islam by tact or violence. Hence muslims support secualrism wherever they are in a minority while waging jihad whereevr they are in majority. Sooner the non-Muslim world wakes up to these INFALLIABLE and irrefutable factss about Islam in general, better is it for everybody. These facts may appear poilitically incorrect but IT IS A FACT, damn it.

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temporal,
If messages on this board represent general opinion of Indians and Pakistanis - so much for your radical solution ..)

Kashmiris are already in full control of Azad Kashmir. There`s hardly anything India could do to them here. India is finding no way out from IoK. More than 75,000 Indian troops are entangled with Kashmiri liberation fighters in IoK. Majority of Indians are hand to mouth in India. They don`t know whether their army is commanding Kashmiris or Kashmiris commanding them. The cheats whom they considered as their great leaders made them nothing more than a laughing stock for the world.

# 76
nomani wrote:

+++
``Kashmiris are already in full control of Azad Kashmir.``
+++

Kashmiri language is far less significant in ``Azad`` Kashmir than it is in Jammu & Kashmir in India across the LoC.

(1) According to latest census figures, only about 100,000 in PoK (Pakistan Occupied Kashmir) claim Kashmiri as their mother tongue. This is in sharp contrast to Jammu & Kashmir across the LoC where more than 4 million claim Kashmiri as their mother tongue.

(2) Kashmiri speakers lack the critical mass to be significant in PoK. They form a mere 2% of the population. In sharp contrast, nearly the half the population of Jammu & Kashmir claim Kashmiri as their mother tongue.

(3) Institute of Kashmir Studies in Muzaffarabad does some language promotion - but observers have acknowledged that it is a lost cause in PoK.

nomani might also note that Article 370 of the Indian Constitution perpetuated the erstwhile kingdom`s rule that barred ``outsiders`` from owning immovable property in Jammu & Kashmir. This has served to preserve the demography of Jammu & Kashmir on the Indian side of the LoC. That, unfortunately, is not true on the Pakistani side of LoC. ``Azad`` Kashmir quickly got swamped by immigrants from Punjab and NWFP. Today, in PoK, you are far more likely to hear Punjabi/Lahandi/Pothwari than Kashmiri.

Anyway, democracy doesn`t imply dictatorship of the majority to the point of violating the fundamental rights of a minority or even of an individual. It will not be an exercise in democracy even if an Ayatollah in Iran can show majority support for his fatwa on Salman Rusdie. Nor is it an exercise in democarcy if a majority in Pakistan is in agreement with the draconian laws that make it a crime for an Ahmadiya in Pakistan to call himself a Muslim or even to recite the Kalima!

``Kashmir Banega Pakistan`` is a slogan to enforce the religious homogeneity of PoK on the rest of Jammu & Kashmir as well. The quarter million Pandits who have been driven out of their ancestral land and are now living in refugee camps in Delhi or Jammu under pitiable conditions are a living testimony of the goals of those that shout ``Kashmir Banega Pakistan`` at the drop of a skull cap.

Kashmiris don`t need any pundits for themselves. Therefore they`re free to go back to India. They`re required in India. There`re plenty of sacred cows in India for them to play with.

Kashmiris know how to manage without pundits. They`ll certainly have no problem without them. However, if Pundits fear that they`ll be in some problem in India, then they should speak out honestly and request Kashmiris to accomodate them. They shouldn`t have adopted the criminal plot with the help of Maharaja Hari Singh, Pundit J L Nehru and Lord Montbaten. I still hope that Kashmiris can forgive them.

nakhok:

You don`t know nothing about your own mother tongue because every new invader changed your mother`s tongue. How could you say something about the mother tongue of Kashmiris on the other side of LoC?

Let me rewrite #78 by a paki replacing ``Pandit`` by ``Muslim`` ; Kashmir by India and India by Pakistan. THIS SHOULD BE AN EYE AWAKENER FOR EVERYONE HERE -


``Indians don`t need any muslims for themselves. Therefore they`re free to go back to Pakistan. They`re required in Pakistan. There`re plenty of goats/pigs in Pakistan for them to play with. Indians know how to manage without muslims. They`ll certainly have no problem without them. However, if muslims fear that they`ll be in some problem in Pakistan, then they should speak out honestly and request Indians to accomodate them. They shouldn`t have adopted the criminal plot with the help of Jinnah and Lord Montbaten. I still hope that Indians can forgive them. ``