Catches win Matches

Reply to #22 by Munjan

``It seems to be the need of the day that someone who knows how to write and knows the first class cricket to write a detailed critique of the Pak cricket setup. I dont think you need my help but I can forward you whatever I have wrote up so far. ``

Please do.

``ANd Mofeez are you this
[http://www-usa.cricket.org/link_to_database/PLAYERS/PAK/M/MUFEEZ_MURTAZA_07019733/] ? ``

Yes I am! It was surprising for me to see that too. The record is a little skewed because by the time my Islamabad team made it to the first class level by winning the div II league, it was my last year in Pak before I decided to come to US to study. I did go back in the summers and play for Islamabad in the first class tournament a couple of times but by that time not playing for 9 months in the US had taken its toll. However, it is good to have my name up there. Atleast people can see that I was not lying when I said I did play first class cricket.

Moffez,
These days people are talking about the fisrt class setup in Pakistan and are criticising it from left and right, I think you have the talent and ability to write on it. I have tried to write an article but I been handicapped because I dont have the experience in 1st class cricket that you do.

It seems to be the need of the day that someone who knows how to write and knows the first class cricket to write a detailed critique of the Pak cricket setup. I dont think you need my help but I can forward you whatever I have wrote up so far.

Munajn.

PCB`s money goes to Jehadies in Kashimir, its the stupidest thing that I have heared in long long time. PCB is an organization that goes through annual audits and moreover they need to spend a lots of money on keeping the players organizing tournaments, a plethora of stadia in the country. How can they afford sending a big chunk of money to Jehadies.

Yes people do collect money to support Kashmir sepratist movement, but I hope you realize that PCB is a bit different than a street-cornor grocery store. You are right one cant be sure if the money collected by PCB in the games against India goes to Jehadies but at least you can be sure that the money earned by Cricket boards is controlled by ICC too. How can you be sure that the money you spend on buying a cricket bat from the famous canought place in new dehli does not end up supporting Kashmnir Jehadies ? if you are not so you will stop shopping at this great market place?

There could have been many other raesons you might have given, but I have no idea why u ended up having such a retarded one.

Political and events in the history can not be, and should not be viewd in isolation and ought to be understood in their right historic perspective but you seem to be just flowing with the flow and saying things that are politically fashinable to say in India. There are very many colors in the world but I guess people on this issue just opt to view things in BLACK and WHITE.

Yes Pakistan supported Kashmiri sepratists with arms and training, but didn`t India do the same in then east-Pakistan, please dont feed us with the Indian official stand on the issue I am fully aware of that and I am also aware of the reasons behind Band ladesh`s seperation.

Pakistan`s left, to which I always belonged, never supported Pakistani adventures in Kashmir, that should never be taken wrong to mean that they supported Indian blunders in East-Pakistan, Junagurrah and Hyderabad.

All we need to do is to realize that we are better off being co-operating neighbours as oppose to bitter foes and such a goal can`t be achieved by going nukes and amassing armies at the borders.

I find this discussion very relevant as I dont see cricket ties improving without improving political ties and such discussions are needed to understand eachother`s point of views.

ANd Mofeez are you this
[http://www-usa.cricket.org/link_to_database/PLAYERS/PAK/M/MUFEEZ_MURTAZA_07019733/] ?

Cheers up fellas,
Munjan.

Reply to #19 by ssdhillon

[Pakistan arresting all these terrorists........Like you guys have a choice. Mushy was told very bluntly right after Sep 11 that he was either ``with or aginast`` the US. I can`t beleive you guys want credit for aresting the ]

Ofcourse Pakistan had a choice. Musharraf did not want to make that choice but it was there. US is putting pressure on everyone. It is putting pressure on India to reduce tension too. It does not mean everyone is going with US.

[terrorists you helped the Taliban to create in the first place.``Bad apples``.......who are you kidding......these guys had the full backing of the government....remember Sheikh Omar........He was very much in ]

But then the argument is that the CIA created the Taliban with Pakistan`s help to fight Russia.

[The weapons that jehadis in Kashmir use must drop from the sky. Are you denying that money is collected openly in pakistan for jehad in kashmir. Get a reality check....Muridke is the HQ of the Lashkar-e-]

Oh not at all. Kashmiris are fighting a just struggle for independence. Pakistan should back them 100%. Everyone in Pak believes that. SInce Iwas a kid, I have seldom seen someone just stand there ask for money for JEHAD in Kashmir. We have helped with donations to Eidhi welfare trust or for food or clothes. The Kashmiri freedom fighters have weapons that are made in US, Russia & China so am sure they are getting support from a lot of different places.

[Here in the US the administration is watching the ``Islamic Charities`` very closely. In fact one has already pleaded guilty to helping Chechen rebels. ]

Look I do not agree that any of PCB`s money is going to any terrorist. The situation in the US you should be fully aware of. They will overreact to make sure they get everyone they want. I also feel that the Chechen`s have a right to fight for their independence if they feel they want to be independent.

Anyway back to cricket. My new article should appear soon. Thanks for reading and spending time on commenting. Appreciate it.

#18 by murtam on March 7, 2003 4:07pm PT
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Do you really believe that? I am really surprised. The fact that Pakistan is catching all these terrorists is being held against us? Ofcourse if there are bad apples in our ranks, we should clean them up. There are terror incidents in this world that have no Pakistani connection. You realize that right? Maybe Gujarat will ring a bell or Isreal/Palestine or Rwanda or Serbia...
++++++++++++

Pakistan arresting all these terrorists........Like you guys have a choice. Mushy was told very bluntly right after Sep 11 that he was either ``with or aginast`` the US. I can`t beleive you guys want credit for aresting the terrorists you helped the Taliban to create in the first place.``Bad apples``.......who are you kidding......these guys had the full backing of the government....remember Sheikh Omar........He was very much in favour with the government till he killed an american. You must be glad that there are terror incidents without Paki connections!!!!

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obviously know nothing about Pakistan and have never been there. The Pakistan Cricket Board money going to Al-Qaida!! Hahahahahaha...that is the funniest thing I have ever heard. Buddy our leaders never let a dime go to our poor & needy, why would they let the money they can use to make their mansions go to Al-Qaida.
+++++++++++++++

The weapons that jehadis in Kashmir use must drop from the sky. Are you denying that money is collected openly in pakistan for jehad in kashmir. Get a reality check....Muridke is the HQ of the Lashkar-e-Toiba....like it is some corporation. How can we overlook the fact that a part of the money earned by the Paki board will not be used aginst us.
Here in the US the administration is watching the ``Islamic Charities`` very closely. In fact one has already pleaded guilty to helping Chechen rebels.

Reply to #17 by harish_hyd

[Simple arithmetics pal. Even if revenue brought in by all of the other sports were put together, it wouldn`t be half of what a Cricket match between the two rivals would bring. What better way than to starve an already struggling PCB? ]

You know what, you are right. India should not play Pakistan. I still maintain Pakistan, if given the chance, should go play in India. BTW this story appeared today...doesn`t this throw a wrench in your motor?

Indian board asks government to resume Pakistan matches
Reuters - 7 March 2003


NEW DELHI, March 7 (Reuters) - The Board of Control for Cricket in India (BCCI) has asked the Indian government to allow resumption of matches with Pakistan to prevent their team being isolated from world cricket.

India are scheduled to tour Pakistan next month in line with the International Cricket Council`s (ICC) 10-year programme but the series is unlikely to go ahead because of tension between the neighbours over the disputed region of Kashmir.

``Each country is supposed to play four series against each other in a 10-year period (two at home and two abroad),`` Jagmohan Dalmiya, president of Indian cricket board wrote in a letter to Indian sports minister Vikram Verma earlier this week.

``If India does not play against Pakistan, the equilibrium of world cricket will be severely affected because the world Test championship cannot be decided. India may be totally isolated in the world cricket scenario,`` he added.

The Indian government banned all bilateral matches between the sides in 2000 but has not been opposed to the teams playing in multi-team events at neutral venues.

Pakistan have said they are willing to host India. The ICC`s executive board is expected to discuss the issue in their meeting on March 21 in Johannesburg.

India and Pakistan played against each other for the first time in almost three years at the World Cup in South Africa last week, when India won by six wickets.

The two countries have fought three wars against each other since independence from Britain in 1947.

© Reuters

[You wouldn`t believe it Mofeez bhai, but this policy has the overwhelming support of the average Indian. For too long India has allowed itself to be the victim of your generals` fancy military strategies. We have paid a heavy price in terms of men and money. Its payback time now. ]

OK...I guess that is one way of doing it. If 160 million muslims in India are for this particular strategy then you are right India should do this.

Reply to #16 by ssdhillon

[Pakistan`s policies. As for ``holier than thou`` I am sorry but it is easy to get this attitude against a country which is now the headquarters of terrorism. It is no surprise that the top Al-Qaida leadership is all in pakistan. Hell....now you guys are arresting your own army people for siding with Khalid Sheikh Mohammad. Point out a terror incident and you will see paki connections.]

Do you really believe that? I am really surprised. The fact that Pakistan is catching all these terrorists is being held against us? Ofcourse if there are bad apples in our ranks, we should clean them up. There are terror incidents in this world that have no Pakistani connection. You realize that right? Maybe Gujarat will ring a bell or Isreal/Palestine or Rwanda or Serbia...

[Bottomline....I am not denying that finance is probably the biggest reason we do not play Pakistan but it is part of the bigger picture. How can our cricket board be sure that (a part of ) the money earned by the paki board is not going to fund jehadis or even Al-qaida. From what I hear mosques, grocery stores all collect money for Jehad. On the same ]

Ok you know what, I am going to stop now and rest my case. You obviously know nothing about Pakistan and have never been there. The Pakistan Cricket Board money going to Al-Qaida!! Hahahahahaha...that is the funniest thing I have ever heard. Buddy our leaders never let a dime go to our poor & needy, why would they let the money they can use to make their mansions go to Al-Qaida.

#14 by murtam on March 5, 2003 9:12am PT

[OK that is fine. Then the argument should be that we want to isolate Pakistan and will not play them in what is profitable for Pakistan otherwise it is not a principled stand against cross border terrorism. I think the holier than thou attitude is what irks people.]

How about putting forward the same argument to your politicians and generals who, for 55 years have been parroting the same lie: that they only provide ``moral, political and diplomatic`` support to the ``indigenous`` Kashmir cause, when the fact is that they`re arming terrorists, most of whom are Paki mercenaries, to their teeth?

[How does it make it any easier when Pakistani hockey players and footballers are hosted? I mean they are still from the same Pakistan that ``trains jehadis against you]

Simple arithmetics pal. Even if revenue brought in by all of the other sports were put together, it wouldn`t be half of what a Cricket match between the two rivals would bring. What better way than to starve an already struggling PCB?

[My point is why make it seem as if it is some principled stand. Cause clearly it is to make PCB lose money. And Pakistanis are accused of having India-centric policies]

You wouldn`t believe it Mofeez bhai, but this policy has the overwhelming support of the average Indian. For too long India has allowed itself to be the victim of your generals` fancy military strategies. We have paid a heavy price in terms of men and money. Its payback time now.

#14 by murtam on March 5, 2003 9:12am PT
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OK that is fine. Then the argument should be that we want to isolate Pakistan and will not play them in what is profitable for Pakistan otherwise it is not a principled stand against cross border terrorism. I think the holier than thou attitude is what irks people. If what you say above is the govt. line, I am ok with that. However, I still think Pakistan should go and play cricket in India even if the Indians do not come to Pakistan to play.
+++++++++++

I don`t know about ``principled`` but it is definitely a stand against Pakistan`s policies. As for ``holier than thou`` I am sorry but it is easy to get this attitude against a country which is now the headquarters of terrorism. It is no surprise that the top Al-Qaida leadership is all in pakistan. Hell....now you guys are arresting your own army people for siding with Khalid Sheikh Mohammad. Point out a terror incident and you will see paki connections.(including Sep 11)

Anyways to come back to sports with Pakistan. I do not think we specially invite paki hockey and football players to come to India. If we play them it is part of a tournament. In any case hockey and football have hardly any mass appeal. If you do not know India has refused to play in the SAF games in Pakistan.

Bottomline....I am not denying that finance is probably the biggest reason we do not play Pakistan but it is part of the bigger picture. How can our cricket board be sure that (a part of ) the money earned by the paki board is not going to fund jehadis or even Al-qaida. From what I hear mosques, grocery stores all collect money for Jehad. On the same note...it seems like Paki authorities have arrested the guy who was supposed to have wired Mohammad Atta $100,000 before 911.

Well I have been reading chowk for a while now and i really enjoyed reading article in this section. My intesion of replying to this article was not raise any kind of animosity.
I was just not able accept that its been said on a public platform, that pakistan will beat india comfortably. well I have played a lot of cricket too and be a religious folow of this game. And as any indian or pakistani i always want my country to win. But I also know that both india and pakistan are very talented and unpredictable, and this uncertanity of this two arch-rival make game so intresting. I would have never taken risk of giving a that ``ndia will win comforably`` . This is exactly what happend with shoiab, before the game in his usual arrogant manner he announced that I will terrorize all india batsman and will target sachin. well he got to realize that his bowling partner wasim is one of the greatest bowler cricket has ever seen never made such statements. I still think that shoiab has a great potential and certainly can be a match winning bowler on his day. but that does`nt give him right to just speak what ever he want to. And i think that statement actually worked agaisnt him, as he was under added pressure of his big words.
And as far as india-pakistan record is concerned, its high time pakistan should stop bosting about it better record over india. cause thats not gonna help there cricket in anyway. rather they should just go back to drawing board and restructure the whole thing not with feeling of revange but to build a proffesional team. Forget about batting and bowling pakistan feilding has been real said part of there cricket in thsi tournament. If u drop a catch of player like sachin, well it can certainly cost u match.
Its really hard to belive that great cricketing brains like javid minadad and imran are not part of PCB.
And the issue of sharjah goes I am not at all in favour of playing cricket there cause its not helping any cricket playing nation. and both india and pakistan have enough resource to support our cricket. so if we have to play cricket with each other, it has to be in india or pakistan.

`` #8 by ssdhillon on March 4, 2003 3:20pm PT

``It is great that India does not play Pakistan. As far as other sports are concerned..they hardly have the same appeal as cricket. It is not a question of 0 or 100. Why should India play in Pakistan when hardly any country wants to do it. We should do all we can to add to Pakistan`s isolation. ``

OK that is fine. Then the argument should be that we want to isolate Pakistan and will not play them in what is profitable for Pakistan otherwise it is not a principled stand against cross border terrorism. I think the holier than thou attitude is what irks people. If what you say above is the govt. line, I am ok with that. However, I still think Pakistan should go and play cricket in India even if the Indians do not come to Pakistan to play.

``I do not understand this ``politics and sports should be separate`` crap. I will find it disgusting if we host the Pakistani cricketers while their country is traing jehadis against us. ``

How does it make it any easier when Pakistani hockey players and footballers are hosted? I mean they are still from the same Pakistan that ``trains jehadis against you``

``BTW Shoaib chucks....He did not even bowl one ball during the match. It is high time the ICC did something about cheats like him. Wasim Akram ``

Very simple. If ICC can prove that he chucks, he should be banned. He should be treated like any other cricketer in this world. Innocent until proven guilty.

BTW I do not for a minute believe that the Indian govt is not letting the Indian cricket team play Pakistan because they are scared. Not at all. My point is why make it seem as if it is some principled stand. Cause clearly it is to make PCB lose money. And Pakistanis are accused of having India-centric policies!

When will you guys wake up? Cricket tours involving India bring in upwards of $15 million to the cricket boards. One tour with India is equivalent several tours by other countries.

So, look at this as economic sanctions. After all, we are Hindoo banias right?

If it helps you to keep your deranged delusions going by thinking that our team is scared of you. Then go ahead by all means.

a very good article

Oº°‘¨ Research of the Millenium ¨‘°ºO


``pakistan cricket board is already suffering all kinds of financila problem.``

Kabhi Kabhi meray dil mey khayal aata hai,
Kay Yohanna agar Anderson ki us ball ko seeda khai laita
To wo match hum jeet bhi saktay thai,
Yey nakara batting ki sayahi jo humari team par chaihee howi hai,
Zimbabwe say jeet ki shuaoN mein kho bhi sakti thi,


Ajab na tha kay Waqar ney Australia kay match mein,
Toss jeet kar phehlay bowling ki,
Wo Wasim ki outswingers, wo Symonds kay Chahkay,
Us match mein baRi piTayee howi,

ChinghaRta howay Tendulkar ney kia shot khelay,
Shoaib kee to kuch bhujiya see bana dee,
Kash Inzi us din kuch run kar laita,
Aur Razzaq ney wo ball na girayee hoti,

Magar yai ho na saka,

Magar yai ho na saka, aur ab yai aalam hai,
Key team nahi, team mey josh aur walwala bhi nahi,
Guzar rahi kuch is tarhaN zindagi jaisay,
Isay kisy kay jeetnay ki aarzoo bhi nahi,

Na koi batsman, na captain, na roshni ka suraagh,
Bhatak rahi hai andheroN mein team humari,
Inhi undheroN mein reh jaiN gey kho kar,
Main jaantay hoN, meray humwatan,
Magar Yun hi,

Kabhi Kabhi meray dil mey khayal aata hai.

Fellas,

Yes I agree that India`s decision not to play Pakistan is politically motivated and it is absurd that people think that Indian team is scared of playing Pakistan therefore they dont want to play Pakistan. I am saying that even though I am a Pakistani. If that was the case they would have rather not played Australia and South Africa as for last 5 some years these two teams have been at least 10times better than Pakistani team.

I have no clue why we Pakistanies try not to understand the real issue and opt to say things that are politically fashionable but are incorrect. There are people who thought Tendulkar can not play fast bowler yet another stupid idea, just go to crickinfo and have a peek at his record and shut up.

Said that it does not mean that our Indian brothers just steped out of the heavens and are very innocent. I never heared Pakistan breaking cricketing ties with India after India`s brutal state sponsored terrorism in West-Pakistan (now Bangladesh) I never hear Pakistan breaking their cricketing ties when they catch people who blast bomb and were trained in India. That is what looks absurd to me.

After bomb balst in the team hotel of Newzeland team I strongly support the teams not to visit Pakistan, I can not imagine how would players play if they have life threatening issues.

I am pissed off because I cant see India/Pak cricket otherwise it is world history that countries use big sporting events to spraed their message. USA did that to Russia by boycotting Moscow Olymics (and Ironically Pakistan was also part of this boycot!). Russia did that by bocotting Olymics in USA. England did not go to Zimbabwe for political reasons, this happens all the time.

I adore Indian bord`s decision to not play Pakistan in Sharja as I dont think it did any good to cricket and in turn planted the seeds of match fixing.

Indian wants to draw more attention by cutting cricketing ties, which is an instant news, who knows how many goals Indian Hockey team scored against Pakistan. Field hockey is just not that much crowd puller now. In the days of Cold war when USA boycotted Russian olymics their minor teams were playing each other.

Why dont we all start talking and pressurising our governments to be sane instaed of just fighting like this on this unknown chat room.

Munjan.

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It is quite a shame that the Indian Govt. has denied the cricket fans of this great spectacle owing to its idiotic stand. I mean why not let the cricket teams play each other when the hockey, soccer etc. teams are playing each other at each other’s venues? I
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It is great that India does not play Pakistan. As far as other sports are concerned..they hardly have the same appeal as cricket. It is not a question of 0 or 100. Why should India play in Pakistan when hardly any country wants to do it. We should do all we can to add to Pakistan`s isolation.

I do not understand this ``politics and sports should be separate`` crap. I will find it disgusting if we host the Pakistani cricketers while their country is traing jehadis against us.

BTW Shoaib chucks....He did not even bowl one ball during the match. It is high time the ICC did something about cheats like him. Wasim Akram is another story. As far as I am concerned....He is among the top three best bowlers of all time.

What will Waqar Younis call this now? The victory of Eeshwar over Allah??



Why don`t we hear the General and Waqar resign? I hope we all hear that soon, coz I want to see Saqlain in!

I must say u r a real supproter of pakistan, cause looking at there current team its really hard to say that they can beat india comfortably. Not that i don`t like pakistani team, I have always enjoyed watching them play specially against India. Over the years pakistan have produce high quality bowlers.
But the current team lack all of this qualities. And its is very much clear from there early departure from the world cup, and sincerely don`t wanted pakistan to qualify for super-six, not because i am indian but they have`nt beaten a single quality team in this world cup, so they don`t desrve to be in super six.
And as far as india govt. not allowing indian team to play to pakistan: I think its not because india is affraid of playing to pakistan or anything. but its pure politics, as it is pretty clear that india cricket board is wealthist board in the world. And pakistan cricket board is already suffering all kinds of financila problem. So, indian govt. is just trying to topple it even further.
I agree its completely unfair to mix sports and politics, but nothing is going fair between this two contries.

Also in support of Mofeez bhai`s article and in response to Desperado...

Pakistan overall has a winning record over India - and location has nothing to do with it...

Pakistan has won 10 of its 14 ODIs in India, and has also won 32 of 57 games on neutral grounds...

They have a winning record in Canada (albeit slim), they are only marginally behind in Australia (3 wins vs 4 losses), and of the 57 games played on neutral grounds, only 24 were played in Sharjah (of these Pakistan won 18 but to flippantly suggest that these were due to umpiring is blantantly unfair especially considering that the tournaments in Sharjah have had neutral umpires)

Bottom line is that no matter how you look at it...Pakistan has a superior record against India in ODIs and India has a long way to go before it will equalize it...not playing against Pakistan of course will simply delay any chance they might have

Reply to ``#3 by desparado on March 3, 2003 8:56pm PT
Mr. Murtaza, I have been reading ur articles. and if i remember correctly you said that you are not all that worried about India-Pakistan match you are more worried about Pakistan-Zimbabwe match.
I am not sure what u meant but if u were writing off india, then I am ``

What I meant was that I thought Pakistan could beat India comfortably. Obviously my prediction was incorrect.

``And in this article u mentioned that when indian team was according to u was not of class of Pakistan team, the indian govt. was not allowing them to play. but now india has a competitive team they r letting them play on neutral grounds. Then i must say that records has a major difference after india pakistan player stp playing in sharjha. because umpiring was a major diffrerence between two team. ``

Yes I think Indian govt did that on purpose. Otherwise if it was a principled decision why were the hockey teams going to each other`s countries to play series over the past few years. Also, there were junior teams that were playing each other. I do not believe that the Sharjah matches are the only reason why we are up 52-30 in one day matches over India. We beat them in India as well as all across the world.

``And I would more like to say, reader will prefer more a neutral cricketing article rather then a article all possible way in which pakistan can have won. ``

Do not misunderstand me. I am a Pakistani writing about Pakistani cricket. I do not even pretend to be writing as a global cricket fan. I have no problem with other authors writing from the Indian perspective or English perpective etc. I played cricket in Pakistan and am a Pakistani and have chosen to write from the Pakistani perspective. I do not think there is anything wrong with that. Do you?

Mr. Murtaza, I have been reading ur articles. and if i remember correctly you said that you are not all that worried about India-Pakistan match you are more worried about Pakistan-Zimbabwe match.
I am not sure what u meant but if u were writing off india, then I am sure u got the massage that, it was too early for any comment (like what rawalpindi express realized after being derailed but little master and realized that speed is not what work agaist quality) , and if u meant that u were sure that pakistan is for sure to lose then still it was premature expression.
And in this article u mentioned that when indian team was according to u was not of class of Pakistan team, the indian govt. was not allowing them to play. but now india has a competitive team they r letting them play on neutral grounds. Then i must say that records has a major difference after india pakistan player stp playing in sharjha. because umpiring was a major diffrerence between two team.
And I would more like to say, reader will prefer more a neutral cricketing article rather then a article all possible way in which pakistan can have won.

Firaq..I agree! We have to bat first and go for the big score...I think the mentality should be either we win by the right margin or we lose because I would much rather see Zimbabwe go through rather than England. Eventhough I think Shoab chokes at the first challenge we need him because we have to get wickets. He has to bowl fast, short and go for the batsman`s upper body...let them try to hook it!

Nice match report...two key moments in the two innings...Inzi`s runout put Pakistan on the backfoot and Razzaq`s dropped catch of Sachin would have swung the momentum paksitan`s way. Against Zimbabwe, they have to bat first, score 350 and get them out for 162. Batting second, Pak has to score whatever Zimbabwe score between 10-15 overs, which becomes nearly impossible if Zimbabwe scores over 100.