The Saffron Autumn

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Studebaker:

Your first point is valid and I accept it.

the second point is not valid. Jaswant Singh released the hostages under duress. Personally I disagree with that step because it was the cowardly thing to do. Too often India has given under when faced by the bullet.

Regardless, the price in Afghanistan was the release of a few terrorists. A price that at worst could be paid.

The price of negotiating with Hizb or Pakistan or Lashkar is at best another religion based partition of India and at worst the green flag of Islam flying over our parliament. Both alterntives are unacceptable. Therefore there is no choice but to carry on fighting.

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12-head #18
``How many time the same person in frustration adopts the first option.

If we want to maintain peace in this world --- has to take responsibility to SOME thing adressing that frustration. ``

I don`t understand your point, but ``Laaton ke bhoot batoon se nahin mante`` was exactly the philosophy practised by Taliban and Saddam towards their Muslim populations.

But there is no commensurate frustration about this, in people raising their voices in favor of these regimes simply for being `Muslim governments`.

There were no funds raised for suicide bombings against Taliban or Saddam for their brutality, no funds were raised for their victims. Those who now threaten suicide and other attacks in the name of defending these regimes didnot take responsibility when these regimes were committing excesses against Muslims.

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12-head
Again you are attributing to me what I didnot say. Where did I talk of all Kashmiris or all Muslims? I was talking of some Kashmiris and some Muslims, and this is clear if you read carefully.

#20 sadna

The general idea is that muslims have special rights to get agitated and start blowing themselves up and killing everyone in sight. This is somehow natural and OK. Their oppression is so severe (forget the tibetans, the East Timorese, the Kashmiri pandits, ...) that they cannot help themselves.

Overall it is an astounding argument, specially when made by educated people. One gets the feeling that people who argue like this (not a large fraction of all muslims, of course) are more like murderous children than adults.

Studebaker:

I guess the point you are making is that Kashmiri Muslims are not monolithic identity. Agreed. Do you however believe in the concept of a dominant discourse?

To give you an example, if I didn`t know better, I would think TAhmed and Urstruly belong to two different religions. Though they both profess to be Muslim, the philosophies and concepts they stress upon are diametrically opposed to each other. Now, within Islamic society, one view will ultimately prevail, not in an absolutist sense, but as a dominant discourse.

How should non Muslims then react?

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pmishra2 #22
Check out Mr Isa Daudpota. His article reduces to these few lines : ``We will kill you so you must be friendly and agree to our demands. If you don`t agree to do as we say its because you are unfriendly and jingoistic. Oh - and US must pay us and build us this and that so that we stop wanting to kill you``

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Studebaker: I must say it is a pleasure to interact with you when you take the time to write coherent posts. But your Kamala posts are compeletely whacko.

Studebaker:

``.Since Palestine etc. do not affect Indians Hindus directly you have to only concentrate on Kashmir . ``


How many Hindus have you seen in UP collecting money for the Yahood? Forget about Palestine, have you seen Hindus collect money in India for Hindus in Fiji? No. We care about our nation, our country. Pakis bleed for Palestenians, though I have yet to meet an Arab who`s heart bleeds for Pakistan.

``Honestly judge the Kashmiris on the basis of its merit of case .One thing for sure is that Kashmir is NOT another state of India like Gujrat & U.P and stop comparing incidents there with incidents in Kashmir

If you think no hindu can live in Muslim majority areas i would disagree because 140 million Indian muslims can live as minority in India not b/c of any special privelege but by the fact that they have been doing so 1000 yrs and Pundits have been doing so hundreds of years too. ``

Studebaker, the very fact that you condole about Pandits reveal you are Indian. Indian Muslims, having lived amongst non Muslims, have become used to a pluralistic society so u think of Hindis as human.

But the case of Kashmir Valley stands as a clear cut example of the inability of a non Muslim minority to live amongst Muslims in any sort of dignity.

#13 ``Tsk, tsk, tsk. You don`t seem to understand the Islamic viewpoint on shahadad. Or the rules for counting the dead. So here is a primer for you.
Only Muslims can die a martyr`s death.
Even if a Muslim is executed for capital crimes by a non-Muslim government, he is automatically a martyr. etc etc etc

well if that is your gripe - we can tie you to a cannon and lite the fuse - in effect canonizing you : )
Nice article. I guess it really is as simple as that - you just wake up one morning decide and next day gone.