The New Jews

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scout # 48, 55``
I guess the reason for few Indians to activiely interact on such topics is understandably little bit of everything you might be thinking. However, I do not see much wrong in it because the wrong begining leads to wrong results.

You might have noticed that Indians do not write article such as `what it means to be Hindu, Sikh, majority, minority`, `true, real, actual message of gita, vedas, Adi granth` etc. Why then even people claiming to be moderate keep writing about it. At chowk, quran is discussed at least 100 times more than gita or ggs. I don`t think it is always Indians who start discussing Islam and Muslims. It is Muslims who love to mention it before anything else. How often did you hear Bina mentioning Sindhi in any article which is rightfully her proud identity. Actually I am often more criticized here by Pakistanis and Muslims for opting Panjabi as well as not Muslim identity.

The obsession is on both side at chowk, but the begining of the obsession is by Pakistani Muslims who are not content with just Pakistani or native identities. Each action has its opposite reaction. Pakistanis made sure to mention not only religion but their sects also whereas I have many christian coworkers and friends that I do not know the exact denomination they belong to.

This has been going on at chowk much earlier than 9/11. It used to frustrate our very admired intellectual interlocuor, late Bilal Ahmed. The standard line on Kashmir used to be and still is: Kashmiris are Muslims. That is why we support their struggle because we are Muslims. We follow Quran and true message of the quran is........

As I mentioned in my post #11, Pakistan has largely benefited from the war on terror since 9/11/2001 and that is what should be more important to Pakistanis than anything else. I wish to see good relations with USA and economic benefits continue as opposed to once again becoming proud Muslims with automatic high disorderliness that comes with it. The relief what many Pakistani Muslims are yearning for might come again after this phase of high anxiety alongwith faster slide to obscurity.

However don`t bet on slow down by Pakistani Muslims obsession with religious identity once this seemingly difficult phase is over. In the meantime, I have yet to see one article suggesting obsession with gita, ggs, krishna, kali, monkey, cow or lingum.

We provide them with the opportunity to take opposite stand on religious matters. Chowk is neither Islamic nor Pakistani site to keep on bringing Islam and Muslim with little discussion about the religion of the majority of south Asians. Mohammad and Quran get mentioned 100 times more than Krishna, Gita, Jesus or Nanak. Do you think it is just by chance?

By the way, it is more of a problem with south Asian Muslims than all Muslims. I have asked Malaysian, Singaporean and Indonesian about their websites. They tell me than religion is a minor disussion issue for them. Religion is a private matter and no point mentioning that one is a moderate, orthodox, conservative or fundamentalist.

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#47 by adnan_rafiq
A country where minorities are persecuted and murdered for political gains has no right to lecture others on the degredation of humanity.

WOW....I mean WOW. Are you aware of how the minorities(let`s stick to religion here) - non muslims in Pakistan and non Hindus in India fared since 1947 ? Are you talking about the % increase of the minorites in India as contrasted with the dramatic % decrease in Pakistan ? Unless you are also being visited by Gabriel and are fully convinced that all non muslims are seriously taking up Islam after realising that it`s the only true and pure religion. Or may be then you are talking about the opportunities that minorities have in India as compared to those in the promised land devoid of Kafirs - just look at the reality and then spew venom.

You have reached a piteuos stage of counting Muslim A(shias) or Muslim B(ahmediyyas) or Muslim C(mohajirs) as the minorites. Chill dude - we have problems and we are far from being perfect but we can lecture you because we are MUCH MUCH MUCH better in treatment of minorities. We need to do more and so do they - but you guys will take another 20 years to catch up.

#47 by adnan_rafiq
I refuse to believe that this deep-rooted hatred is only because of Kashmir or Kargil or Vajpayee`s Bus yatra. The enmity and hostility runs much deeper into your psyche and displays an inferiority complex which just refuses to go away.

Put a finger dude - what do you call that which runs deeper ? What`s the word ? And yes, we WERE and to a an extent still are accomodative - but then we realised that you were being taught that 1 paki = 10 kafirs and that`s causing all the trouble. So we decided to kick some butt and now why are you whining ? What inferiority complex are you talking about - look at the contributions of THE civilisation - which REFUSED TO CONVERT to any imported religion - to mankind and you will realise that you are but an infant. Live and let live.

Forget all that people tell you - look at India and Pakistan in last 50 years - no person with common sense will say that Pakistan should get kashmir. Your`s is a failed state and any addition of geography is stupidity unlimited inc.,

Another Paki Looser!!!!

http://www.dawn.com/weekly/dmag/dmag5.htm

270 Indians rounded up, released
by Malaysian police

Vandana Saxena in Kuala Lumpur | March 09, 2003 23:33 IST


The Malaysian police on Sunday rounded up around 270 Indians, including many IT professionals, and allegedly defaced their passports, slapped and kicked several of them before releasing all but five later.

This was the outcome of a dawn swoop in search of illegal immigrants on one high-rise apartment in the ethnic Indian dominated Brickfields neighbourhood in central Kuala Lumpur.

``There were around 270 of us, and we have already got the signatures of 178, and we`ll get the rest by Monday,`` said Dilip, an IT professional, who presented a petition to the Indian High Commission on behalf of all those detained after being released on Sunday night.

A Malaysian police officer had earlier told PTI that some 164 Indians had been picked up during a raid on one building adding they were released following the intervention of the Indian High Commission and proof that they had valid visas.

Some showed they were working for companies registered in Malaysia`s Multi-media Super Corridor, the Information Technology project zone running from Kuala Lumpur to the new development of Cyberjaya, some 45 minutes` drive away, he said.

``This has been a black day for all of us,`` Indian High Commissioner Veena Sikri said addressing the detainees after their release.

``We have taken the matter to the highest authority, and we will get to the bottom of the issue.``

Police initially denied Indian officials access to the detained Indian nationals, but later relented.

Several Indians taken into custody showed PTI their passports, pointing out that their visas had been scratched.

A Malaysian immigration official, who verified the defaced visas, said the individuals and their employers would have to apply to his department for a fresh visa.

The detainees recounted how police burst into their homes and herded them to a nearby police station, from where some were taken to jail.

``We were handcuffed and made to kneel or sit in the police station car park, some of us were slapped and kicked,`` said Nagaraju Cheekoti, an IT professional working for WWI Malaysia.

Some said they were ordered to do sit-ups, while others said they were stripped to their underwear, slapped and kicked inside the station. Police confiscated their cell phones and refused them access to telephones.

Police officials at the Brickfields station refused to speak to PTI.

``We don`t want to stay in this country if we are treated like this. We have come here at the invitation of Malaysian companies,`` said one of the detainees to a chorus of approval from other detainees. ``We don`t feel safe,`` he said.

Most of the detainees were men from Andhra Pradesh. A couple of women were also taken into custody, but were not handcuffed.

One group said they were just visiting friends in Kuala Lumpur, after making the short trip from next-door Singapore.

Last year, Malaysia had deported several thousand illegal immigrants, mainly from the Philippines and Indonesia.

i don`t understand why the Indians on Chowk need to get all riled up about this article..... obsession?

Chowk is getting crowded with articles from resident of Pakiland who are on guilt trip.

suxena,

and ur point is?

stop the childish gloating

arjun_m @ # 36 and other Indians speaking on the same matter:

``Racial profiling how? Aren`t Pakis the same race as the Indians?

Nothing offends me more than an Indian implying that we Pakistanis are the same race as Indians. I wouldn`t mind any other insult except for being called an Indian. We are from the land of the pure and not from the land where people Pray to Amitab Bachan drink cow urine and eat rat`s s**t and consider it holy. You people are so disgusting.

tahmed #49
Sorry to cause you the trouble to reply, but I wasn`t interacting with you in #38, please to check again.

...this is hilarious...for months we`ve seen assorted pakis claim their different race owing to blonde hair, light eyes, and fair skin...

...but then everytime one of them gets nabbed by the INS, another paki will pop up claiming:

``don`t laugh, you are brown too and we all look the same...one day someone will harrass you too``

tsk tsk tsk

sadna #38 I dont disagree with much of what you are saying - the only time I disagree is when I see you applying the broad brush of terrorist to all Pakistanis. And, if you read what I wrote in that post to SameerJB, I do not return the favor by stereotyping all Indians or holding them all ``collectively responsible``, and I often refer to the many fine Indians I have the pleasure of knowing in real life, and a few fine Indians on chowk too.
As for that discussion you quote - I suggest you cut and paste what I had written (or provide the link) concerning you demonstrating low class behavior, since as I recall I stopped engaging in any arguments (sorry, discussions) with you many months ago and I have no idea what interaction you are referring to.

arjun_m #18:

I think your rough estimates are a little too rough. Some may even call it a white lie. But, coming from you its not all that surprising. First of all, Indonesia IS included in the list of countries required to registered (Group 4). Secondly, the Muslim population in India is estimated between 120 - 130 million NOT 150 million. Lastly, Nigeria is not included because more than half of its population consists of non-Muslims.

References:
``Although Hinduism is the popular religion, comprising 83% of the population, India is also home to one of the largest population of Muslims in the world--- more than 120 million.
(Reference: http://finance.indiamart.com/india_business_information/population.html)

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re Jayjay #28
[ ... To compare violent and fanatic Muslims with the Jews of the past is to degrade humanity. ...]

Where is Bina comparing violent and fanatic Muslims with the Jews of the past? She is only talking about moderate Muslims like herself. Nowhere in her article is she defending the Islamic fundamentalists. However, it is you who is trying to put words in her mouth. It is you and your fellow Indians (some openly hostile and some with double standards) who is desperately trying to prove to the Western world that there is no difference between moderate Muslims and fanatics and that all of us must be dealt with in the same manner. A country where minorities are persecuted and murdered for political gains has no right to lecture others on the degredation of humanity. As arjun`s posts prove that you guys are even willing to spread false rumors and lies to hurt the Muslims. I refuse to believe that this deep-rooted hatred is only because of Kashmir or Kargil or Vajpayee`s Bus yatra. The enmity and hostility runs much deeper into your psyche and displays an inferiority complex which just refuses to go away. You guys can at least pretend to be human beings, let alone decent human beings, for a change.

P.S. This post is only aimed at a small minority of Indians who suffer from phobias that inflict the likes of arjuns, jays and jayjays, etc.

what`s with all this self pity?

quite honestly, the current treatment of Muslims by the world is a good wake up call for all Muslims....

it`s time we stop wearing our religion on our sleeves, keep religion at home and mosque, where it belongs.

how many Jews and Christians do we see answering the question of `what are you` with a religious identity?

it`s time we stopped pounding our chests declaring `we are muslims, we are the best` and all that jazz

as far as this INS thing is concerned, why shouldn`t they check up on backgrounds of non-American Muslims? what have non-American Muslims done for the united states?

if you don`t like it, leave it.....

To Sensible Chowksters in response to Jay @ # 33:

``Pakistani held in Spain``

As security council vote comes nearer, expect more of OBL search in Pakistan, some more stories of Pakistani support to Talibans, and Pakistanis held in Spain (is it coincidental that a Pakistani has been caught in a country that is siding with US and UK on new UN resolution?), etc. Rest assured this is arm twisting to get Pakistani vote.

In this regard, I would suggest what a very experienced and far-sighted Irshad Ahmad Haqqani suggested to the Government - ``use the vote prudently and in the interest of Pakistan. Keep every one guessing and capitalize economically on the opportunity``. Pakistan just got a very good defensive deal excecuted with France. More to come.

Btw, Jay, you boldly declared that you are a Paki basher. Question: Does this extremely lethal form of HIV run in your family or only are you blessed with it? ;)