The New Jews

Ref arjun_m #104

[12-head..stop talking out of your rear..One could become a computer engineer without reading a single book written by a muslim(or a hindu)...try doing that by boycotting books written by jewish authors.]

Since 12-Head is a doctor, perhaps he could stop using the Jewish vaccine for polio. As his co-religionists in India already believe, polio vaccination is some sort of Hundu-fundoo conspiracy against The True Believers. Just tell them that Jonas Salk and Albert Sabin were Jewish doctors who developed the polio vaccines and they would be convinced that the Jew-Hindu conspiracy is for real.

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#111 by semipreciousme on March 10, 2003 2:28pm PT

[...i also hope you happened to read the letters in the mail section lambasting dawn for letting such idiocy go into print...]

No one is disputing the fact that a lot of people complained, but the fact remains that there ARE substantial numbers of people in Pakistan who subscribe to such disgusting theories. Urdu newspapers, that have much higher subscriptions than English newspapers, endlessly talk of a joint American-Zionist-Hindu plot to take control of Pakistan`s nukes and such fairy tales. Columnists like Hamid Gul, the notorious ISI chief and the pioneer of the strategic depth BS constantly lament the inability of their leaders to stand up to the Western threat, and openly urge the government to unleash a storm of nukes on Indian cities. Why does such crap have to go into print at all?

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Ahmedzai,

What you have reproduced from the indian news papers is the strength of india.
The issues about pakistan that I post here are never to be found in pak media. I agree most of the pakistanis disagree with it even on the chowk, but here is an example, a day to honour abdus salam. People like YLH have written about shers sha suri, ayesh has written about daniel pearl, but no one writes a an article about abdus salam, a comemmorative article on his birth day, 28 January. The reason is simple, the TNT education has gone so deep in the pak psyche that no one wants to hear about abdus salam.
I have seen this every year on chowk, when the nobel season comes, all pakistanis will be talking about nobel prize for Ehdi for the great work he has done. People who refuse t honour a existing winner in an ahmadia wants are arguing for a new one for a pakistani. Well, well, a little known fact, Ehdi is a maulana. If Maulana Abdus Salam were to win a nobel prize, it would have been a different story. This is the extend to which the educated have been brainwashed.

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Jay at # 117:

That Indian posters quote excerpts from Pakistani newspapers and media (ref. Sadna at # 98) is a proof that our media is free and all type of issues get discussed.

Fyi, Professor Abdul Salam`s Nobel anniversary comes, the day is celebrated in at least 3 following Universities:

1. NED Engg. University, Karachi
2. University of Karachi
3. Quaid-e-Azam University, Islamabad.

Moreover, if you want to read good articles from a Qadiani writer, read Mr. Kunwar Idrees in Dawn and News.

Mr. Kunwar Idrees has served as Chief Secretary of Sindh, Chairman of Pakistan Automobile Corporation, Chief Executive of Bankers Equity Limited, etc.

More than TNT (which I believe is a non-issue just like every Pakistani married to 4 wives and waiting for 72 houris), it is living in a closed environment like a frog in a well that adversely impacts Pakistanis. We falsely believe that the whole world revolves around us and that we are the thaikaydars of Islam and of Ummah. An average Pakistani should be brought on orientation to here in Europe for at least 1 week to see in what kind of under-development we are living back home to open up our minds and thinking faculties.

Sadna @ # 98:

You wrote:
``Check out Syed Munawar Husain of JeI on PTV:
http://live.pibc.com:7070/ramgen/pv/smil/ptvnews/primetime.smil

He says if you arrest the last 5 ISI chiefs, you will have control over entire Al Qaeda. He says many other things too :). ``

My point of view:

I would say that 4 of the last 5 Chiefs contributed. One of them has his own rationale that we can discuss later i.e. if it is of your interest.

In addition, I think at least one of our Chief of the Army Staff viz. General (Retd) Mohammad Aslam Baig should be publicly hanged on his role of speaking in support of Saddam during the 1st Iraq war.

The ISI `s policy was wrong from the inception. First of all, the reasoning that Afghanistan provided strategic depth to Pakistan was based on the false premise. It is a friendly Iran that provides a natural strategic depth to Pakistan.

In Afghanistan, after the US and Russia had left, Pakistanis should have worked with Iran to form a coalition Government comprising Pashtoons, Hazaras and pro-Islam Tajiks (Maulana Burhanuddin faction) and then left that country on its own. As it turned out, that country became an extra baggage for us.

Also, the role of Islamic parties like Jamaat-e-Islami and others is hypocritical. They are capitalizing on our emotionalism by painting OBL and Saddam as saviors of Muslims. The hypocrisy comes from Saddam`s party being a socialist (Ba`ath means socialist) and cowardly OBL`s actions only harming Muslim interests.

On the contrary, these parties should have educated their supporters on how dangerous are these two people to Muslims themselves. It is their failure on this count that during anti-war marches, their people lift high photographs of OBL and Saddam. Just imagine the stupidity from a purely Islamist`s point of view - he is supporting the two rogues who are in fact responsible for bringing misery on Islamic movements of Palestine, Kashmir, Chechniya, Central Asian Republics, Moro Liberation Front, etc. (not that I support such a view. My views on Kashmir are known to you through another series of exchange).

It is simply because of these two parties i.e. ISI and Islamists that have failed us that people like me tend to support General Pervaiz Musharraf. The problem is that due to his role in Kargil, another enemy sees us face to face on our eastern border, who is refusing to forget history and extend a friendly arm to him so that he concentrates on finishing off extremist elements in Pakistan once for all. So the person who can deliver us from our failures has enemies all around him - Al Qaeda, Islamists, Indians, remnants of Talibans, opposition parties of Nawaz and Benazir who have their own axes to grind, etc.

IT`S TIME FOR PAKISTAN TO SHOW SOME SELF RESPECT AND DIGNITY IN THE SECURITY COUNCIL --

IF PAKISTAN CANNOT SAY THE WORD -- NO -- TO THE AMERICANS -- IT MUST and MUST -- at least say -- PAKISTAN ABSTAINS

Pakistan signed with the Americans to fight TERRORISM -- and has DONE ADMIRABELY WELL so far --

Pakistan DID NOT SIGN with Americans -- to fight -- BUSH`S PERSONAL WAR --

Therefore -- Pakistan is under NO OBLIGATION to participate in -- BUSH`S CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY. Period.

Can Musharraf say THAT?

In my previous post, the term secular refers to essentially an irreligious society, not the respect for all religions bullshit the Indian gov`t bandies about.

#123

Pakistan has just done that today. GOP is already anticipating an attack from India in April-May time frame as a consequence.

Ahmadzai:

``Pakistan is blamed for assisting Talibans and Al Qaeda in the past and even now, cooperation for chemical weapons and unwanted arms comes out between Indian companies and Iraq. ``

True enough. Why then is Pakistan held suspect and India not mentioned even in passing. The difference is in motivation. If an Indian or German company does something wrong for money, the motivation of lucre is grasped at easily. Only the greed of an Individual entity is blamed.

In Pakistan`s case, the motivation seems to be a feeling of religious affiliation; a feeling not understood by the secular west. As far as I know Iraq has never supported Pakistan or given money or aid. If anything, India has had way deeper relation with Saddam`s Iraq than Pakistan. Why then are Pakis getting worked up but Indians do not really give a shit.

Harimau:

``You Pakistanis are all descended from either Prophet Mohammad, Gengiz Khan, Taimur Leng or Nadir Shah. Not a single one was born to a common soldier; everyone of you was born to a prince as most of you call yourself Baig. ``

This is true os all people. I have yet to meet a Kshatriya who does NOT think that he is the the progeny of Kings / Generals. The thought that they might be the descendant of those soldiers who wear Red Chaddis and hold spears outside the palace gate does not occur to them.

Jay..you said >>Well, well, a little known fact, Ehdi is a maulana. If >>Maulana Abdus Salam were to win a nobel prize, it would have been a >>different story. This is the extend to which the educated have been >>brainwashed.
Edhi is not a maulana; in a recent interview he said that he has never read the Quran. Edhi never talks about religion and to the crazy fundos he says that the true Jihad is helping your fellow human beings, which obviously requires more work than bombing and killing people. He has donated to people without taking their race or religion into account(he donated to the WTC fund); the Edhi welfare stores are in some of the largest cities of the world (London, NY etc) serving the local people. You think every muslim with a beard is a maulana!
Regading your general comments about Dr. Abdus Salaam, many people in the Pakistani academic community lement the treatment accorded to him by our Government. This by no means dimishes the high regard many of us patriotic Pakistanis have for Dr. Abdus Salaam. Our feelings for Dr. Abdus Salam are by no means diluted due to his faith (that was his own business).
I have no qualms about admitting where our society or government has failed its people. You on the other hand should take a long and hard look at your society, starting with yourself, and see if you are doing yourself justice by blatently bad mouthing Muslims in general and Pakistanis in particular....people about whom you obviously dont have a clue.