The New Jews
Bina Shah March 8, 2003
#129 Posted by rsaxena on March 11, 2003 12:10:47 pm
...saddam`s iraq is india`s friend, and i am glad that india has been very outspoken in opposing this war...if the US can befriend musharraf, why is it so horrible for india, france, germany, and russia to befriend saddam...
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#130 Posted by tenaliramanna on March 11, 2003 12:10:47 pm
#127 stuka
This is true os all people. I have yet to meet a Kshatriya who does NOT think that he is the the progeny of Kings / Generals. The thought that they might be the descendant of those soldiers who wear Red Chaddis and hold spears outside the palace gate does not occur to them.
--------------------------------
I`m yet to see a paki muslim who thinks that Prophets / Saints can be born this side of the Arabic Sea and can achieve status higher than their own Prophet Muhammad. Just as this doesn`t occur to them, I guess stukas of the world think that all the Pakis are descendents of Prophet Muhammad, Gengiz Khan, Taimur ``THE LAME`` etc.,. Even if they did these war mongerers can best be described as barbarians. Well what does that make if you stuka ?
Truth (God) is one, the wise call it by various names - Rig Veda
Live and Let Live.
This is true os all people. I have yet to meet a Kshatriya who does NOT think that he is the the progeny of Kings / Generals. The thought that they might be the descendant of those soldiers who wear Red Chaddis and hold spears outside the palace gate does not occur to them.
--------------------------------
I`m yet to see a paki muslim who thinks that Prophets / Saints can be born this side of the Arabic Sea and can achieve status higher than their own Prophet Muhammad. Just as this doesn`t occur to them, I guess stukas of the world think that all the Pakis are descendents of Prophet Muhammad, Gengiz Khan, Taimur ``THE LAME`` etc.,. Even if they did these war mongerers can best be described as barbarians. Well what does that make if you stuka ?
Truth (God) is one, the wise call it by various names - Rig Veda
Live and Let Live.
#131 Posted by SameerJB on March 11, 2003 12:10:48 pm
Nasah: Pakistani and possibly Indian forces too will be part of peace-keeping forces in the new Iraq. In three or four decades all world will descend upon Baghdad for Baghdad Olympics where pakistani Hockey team will win gold medal beating Indian team. By the way, Indian Panjab regiment and Pakistani Panjab regiment will introduce kabaddi and BhangRa to Iraqis. Bari khol ke, bismillah + waheguru bol ke tainu akh mari aa.
Also after this war and possibly getting rid of UBL, US will no longer need Mushy. You know what it means? Pakistan and Iraq will have great relations, a counterweight to India-Iran axis of Aryans.
Pakistan will ask oil pipe line through Iran for Iraqi oil, in exchange for oil pipe line through Pakistan for Iranian oil. Afghanistan will get exclusive wagon rights on 105 and 120 routes in Islamabad and monoply over dry fruits in Aabpara market in exchange for Turkomen oil pipeline through Afganistan.
Also after this war and possibly getting rid of UBL, US will no longer need Mushy. You know what it means? Pakistan and Iraq will have great relations, a counterweight to India-Iran axis of Aryans.
Pakistan will ask oil pipe line through Iran for Iraqi oil, in exchange for oil pipe line through Pakistan for Iranian oil. Afghanistan will get exclusive wagon rights on 105 and 120 routes in Islamabad and monoply over dry fruits in Aabpara market in exchange for Turkomen oil pipeline through Afganistan.
#132 Posted by Saminasha on March 11, 2003 12:10:48 pm
Hey...I thougth only my ma`s side came from Genghis Khan...
#133 Posted by Tipu on March 11, 2003 12:17:16 pm
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#134 Posted by tenaliramanna on March 11, 2003 12:17:17 pm
For the reading pleasure of ``rabid supporters of ISI`` a.k.a. Pakistani Majority on Chowk
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/news/news-attack-qaeda-video.html
---------------------------
Pakistan Accused of Staging Bin Laden Aide Arrest
By REUTERS
Filed at 6:36 a.m. ET
ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - A grainy video purporting to show the arrest of two al Qaeda leaders has done little to deflect accusations that Pakistan may have staged this month`s raid to give it leeway to abstain in a U.N. vote on an Iraq war.
On Monday, the powerful military Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) held an unprecedented news conference to show foreign journalists what it said were images of a March 1 raid in Rawalpindi that netted al Qaeda kingpin Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
But few of journalists present were convinced the video -- which did not show Mohammed`s face nor any sign of a struggle -- was genuine. Many said it looked like a crude reconstruction.
On Tuesday, a former ISI chief said he believed Mohammed was actually arrested some time ago in a different city.
``They are trying to cover up,`` Lieutenant-General Hamid Gul told Reuters. ``I believe he was arrested before, probably in Karachi.``
One intelligence source said Mohammed had been arrested three days before, from the Tench Batta suburb of Rawalpindi.
Rumors of Mohammed`s arrest had circulated in Pakistan for months, but were consistently denied.
Gul said news of the arrest appeared to have been leaked at a critical time, just as Pakistan was facing huge U.S. pressure to support a U.N. Security Council vote authorizing war on Iraq.
On Monday night, a senior ruling party official told Reuters the government, under massive domestic pressure to oppose war on a fellow Muslim state, had decided to abstain in the vote, news that shocked British and American diplomats in Islamabad.
The ISI earlier said it had called its first news conference in Pakistan`s history to counter criticism in the Western media that it had not done enough in the war on terror.
Gul said the raid may have been staged -- and news of the arrest leaked -- for the same reason, against the backdrop of the U.N. vote.
Gul, who ran the ISI from 1987 to 1989, said the raid was conducted in far too casual a fashion to have been real, with police failing to properly surround or secure the house in a middle-class Rawalpindi suburb.
RELATIVES, NEIGHBORS CONTRADICT AUTHORITIES
Relatives of Ahmed Quddus, the son of the house owner, have maintained he was the only man in the house at the time of the raid. Neighbors said they heard no sound of gunfire -- contradicting the official account, which maintains that Mohammed shot one intelligence agent in the foot with an AK-47 rifle.
Within hours, news of the raid and arrest was leaked to foreign news agencies, something Gul also found incredible.
``He has to be questioned, before you present him to the public eye,`` he said. ``You don`t present news like that.``
In the video, an ISI officer is seen briefing half a dozen agents about the impending raid -- in English, as opposed to Pakistan`s Urdu mother tongue.
Officials explained this was a reconstruction of the original Urdu briefing, but said the rest of the video was genuine.
But many journalists were unconvinced as a calm cameraman shone his lights on the raiding party, and followed agents as they casually broke into the compound and the house, and walked up the stairs.
There was no sign of a struggle -- or of any urgency. The cameramen then focused on the back and neck of the man officials said was Mohammed, before the man was swiftly hooded.
The video has not been released to the media for broadcast.
Mohammed is identified by the United States as the mastermind of the September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington. The ISI says the financier of the attacks, Saudi national Ahmed al-Hawsawi, was also arrested in the same raid.
But one Pakistani source said al-Hawsawi had been picked up at least one month before the announcement of his arrest, and that intelligence agents had voiced delight at the time.
On Tuesday, Quddus was remanded in judicial custody for 14 days, and lawyers said his trial could start this month on charges of possessing weapons, resisting arrest and terrorism.
The intelligence source said Quddus` family was suspected of having sent Mohammed food, and Mohammed was said to have visited the house four or five times.
Quddus is the son of an official in the Jamaat-e-Islami party, a key member of a religious alliance that opposes the military-backed government and has organized big street protests against war on Iraq.
Authorities say at least two other al Qaeda suspects have been arrested in houses linked to Jamaat-e-Islami members, but Gul said the party could be the victim of an official campaign to blacken their name.
``Jamaat has never had any contacts with the Arabs (al Qaeda),`` said Gul. ``They are at loggerheads with U.S. policy...and at this stage it would be an advantage to have them labeled as terrorists.``
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/news/news-attack-qaeda-video.html
---------------------------
Pakistan Accused of Staging Bin Laden Aide Arrest
By REUTERS
Filed at 6:36 a.m. ET
ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - A grainy video purporting to show the arrest of two al Qaeda leaders has done little to deflect accusations that Pakistan may have staged this month`s raid to give it leeway to abstain in a U.N. vote on an Iraq war.
On Monday, the powerful military Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) held an unprecedented news conference to show foreign journalists what it said were images of a March 1 raid in Rawalpindi that netted al Qaeda kingpin Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
But few of journalists present were convinced the video -- which did not show Mohammed`s face nor any sign of a struggle -- was genuine. Many said it looked like a crude reconstruction.
On Tuesday, a former ISI chief said he believed Mohammed was actually arrested some time ago in a different city.
``They are trying to cover up,`` Lieutenant-General Hamid Gul told Reuters. ``I believe he was arrested before, probably in Karachi.``
One intelligence source said Mohammed had been arrested three days before, from the Tench Batta suburb of Rawalpindi.
Rumors of Mohammed`s arrest had circulated in Pakistan for months, but were consistently denied.
Gul said news of the arrest appeared to have been leaked at a critical time, just as Pakistan was facing huge U.S. pressure to support a U.N. Security Council vote authorizing war on Iraq.
On Monday night, a senior ruling party official told Reuters the government, under massive domestic pressure to oppose war on a fellow Muslim state, had decided to abstain in the vote, news that shocked British and American diplomats in Islamabad.
The ISI earlier said it had called its first news conference in Pakistan`s history to counter criticism in the Western media that it had not done enough in the war on terror.
Gul said the raid may have been staged -- and news of the arrest leaked -- for the same reason, against the backdrop of the U.N. vote.
Gul, who ran the ISI from 1987 to 1989, said the raid was conducted in far too casual a fashion to have been real, with police failing to properly surround or secure the house in a middle-class Rawalpindi suburb.
RELATIVES, NEIGHBORS CONTRADICT AUTHORITIES
Relatives of Ahmed Quddus, the son of the house owner, have maintained he was the only man in the house at the time of the raid. Neighbors said they heard no sound of gunfire -- contradicting the official account, which maintains that Mohammed shot one intelligence agent in the foot with an AK-47 rifle.
Within hours, news of the raid and arrest was leaked to foreign news agencies, something Gul also found incredible.
``He has to be questioned, before you present him to the public eye,`` he said. ``You don`t present news like that.``
In the video, an ISI officer is seen briefing half a dozen agents about the impending raid -- in English, as opposed to Pakistan`s Urdu mother tongue.
Officials explained this was a reconstruction of the original Urdu briefing, but said the rest of the video was genuine.
But many journalists were unconvinced as a calm cameraman shone his lights on the raiding party, and followed agents as they casually broke into the compound and the house, and walked up the stairs.
There was no sign of a struggle -- or of any urgency. The cameramen then focused on the back and neck of the man officials said was Mohammed, before the man was swiftly hooded.
The video has not been released to the media for broadcast.
Mohammed is identified by the United States as the mastermind of the September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington. The ISI says the financier of the attacks, Saudi national Ahmed al-Hawsawi, was also arrested in the same raid.
But one Pakistani source said al-Hawsawi had been picked up at least one month before the announcement of his arrest, and that intelligence agents had voiced delight at the time.
On Tuesday, Quddus was remanded in judicial custody for 14 days, and lawyers said his trial could start this month on charges of possessing weapons, resisting arrest and terrorism.
The intelligence source said Quddus` family was suspected of having sent Mohammed food, and Mohammed was said to have visited the house four or five times.
Quddus is the son of an official in the Jamaat-e-Islami party, a key member of a religious alliance that opposes the military-backed government and has organized big street protests against war on Iraq.
Authorities say at least two other al Qaeda suspects have been arrested in houses linked to Jamaat-e-Islami members, but Gul said the party could be the victim of an official campaign to blacken their name.
``Jamaat has never had any contacts with the Arabs (al Qaeda),`` said Gul. ``They are at loggerheads with U.S. policy...and at this stage it would be an advantage to have them labeled as terrorists.``
#135 Posted by Ahmadzai on March 11, 2003 12:17:17 pm
Stuka @ # 126:
``Why then are Pakis getting worked up but Indians do not really give a shit. ``
Two factors that I have been highlighting all this while:
1. Our religious parties, who live in a world of their own, and raise the feelings of an average Pakistani, who again is very emotional entity, on matters that do not relate to him. For example, burning American flags in the protest rallies in support of Saddam, who never had an Islamic agenda. He is a socialist and an anti-Arab and anti-Pakistani. But burning of flags earns negative reputation and gets repaid elsewhere.
2. The wars are being fought and won on economic and propaganda fields these days. In media, there is an emerging coalition of Indian and Israeli lobby, especially in the USA, where media does not have an independent policy. At best US Govt., establishment and media work together to form policies and get them accepted at people level. At worst, and this is what I believe, media actually influences policy formulation.
Pakistan will have to do something here on a war footing if it is to win the war that is being thrust on us at a lower level but will increase momentum as urstruly has pointed out in message # 125.
``Why then are Pakis getting worked up but Indians do not really give a shit. ``
Two factors that I have been highlighting all this while:
1. Our religious parties, who live in a world of their own, and raise the feelings of an average Pakistani, who again is very emotional entity, on matters that do not relate to him. For example, burning American flags in the protest rallies in support of Saddam, who never had an Islamic agenda. He is a socialist and an anti-Arab and anti-Pakistani. But burning of flags earns negative reputation and gets repaid elsewhere.
2. The wars are being fought and won on economic and propaganda fields these days. In media, there is an emerging coalition of Indian and Israeli lobby, especially in the USA, where media does not have an independent policy. At best US Govt., establishment and media work together to form policies and get them accepted at people level. At worst, and this is what I believe, media actually influences policy formulation.
Pakistan will have to do something here on a war footing if it is to win the war that is being thrust on us at a lower level but will increase momentum as urstruly has pointed out in message # 125.
#136 Posted by Urstruly on March 11, 2003 12:17:17 pm
stuka
I am a soorya vanshi rajput, Lord Ram`s great great grandchild. Do I count.
#137 Posted by nasah on March 11, 2003 12:41:34 pm
I know -- I know -- Sameerjb -- after the war -- Americans will say to Musharraf -- ``chalo ek baar phir se ajnabee bunn jaiN hum donoN``
#138 Posted by arjun_m on March 11, 2003 1:26:58 pm
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#139 Posted by rsaxena on March 11, 2003 2:52:37 pm
re: urstruly
..don`t lie...you are the grandchild of your prophet`s 9-year-old wife...
..don`t lie...you are the grandchild of your prophet`s 9-year-old wife...
#140 Posted by harimau on March 11, 2003 3:04:58 pm
Just for laughs:
After getting nailed by a Daisy Cutter bomb blast at Tora Bora, Osama
makes his way to the pearly gates.
There, he is greeted by George Washington. ``How dare you attack the
nation I helped conceive!`` yells Washington, slapping Osama in the face.
Patrick Henry comes up from behind. ``You wanted to end the Americans`
liberty, so they gave you death!`` Henry punches Osama in the nose.
James Madison comes up next and says, ``This is why I allowed the
Federal government to provide for the common defense!`` He drops a large weight on Osama`s knee.
Osama is subject to similar beatings from John Randolph of Roanoke,
James Monroe, and sixty-five other people who have the same love for liberty and America.
As he writhes on the ground, Thomas Jefferson picks him up to hurl him
back toward the gate where he is to be judged.
As Osama awaits his journey to his final very hot destination, he
screams, ``This is not what I was promised!``
An angel replies, ``I told you there would be seventy-two Virginians
waiting for you. What did you think I said?``
After getting nailed by a Daisy Cutter bomb blast at Tora Bora, Osama
makes his way to the pearly gates.
There, he is greeted by George Washington. ``How dare you attack the
nation I helped conceive!`` yells Washington, slapping Osama in the face.
Patrick Henry comes up from behind. ``You wanted to end the Americans`
liberty, so they gave you death!`` Henry punches Osama in the nose.
James Madison comes up next and says, ``This is why I allowed the
Federal government to provide for the common defense!`` He drops a large weight on Osama`s knee.
Osama is subject to similar beatings from John Randolph of Roanoke,
James Monroe, and sixty-five other people who have the same love for liberty and America.
As he writhes on the ground, Thomas Jefferson picks him up to hurl him
back toward the gate where he is to be judged.
As Osama awaits his journey to his final very hot destination, he
screams, ``This is not what I was promised!``
An angel replies, ``I told you there would be seventy-two Virginians
waiting for you. What did you think I said?``
#141 Posted by Bhitai on March 11, 2003 6:17:27 pm
tenaliramanna
#128
Your name-calling the Prophet of islam is totally uncalled-for. Then you go off quoting Vedas in the same breath, somehow trying to sound refined and tolerant. I have news for you Sir - respectable and educated people don`t exchange abuses! only hate-mongers do, or those suffering from some sort of inferiority complex. And I hope you won`t come back with the cliched and childish excuse of `he started it all`.
#128
Your name-calling the Prophet of islam is totally uncalled-for. Then you go off quoting Vedas in the same breath, somehow trying to sound refined and tolerant. I have news for you Sir - respectable and educated people don`t exchange abuses! only hate-mongers do, or those suffering from some sort of inferiority complex. And I hope you won`t come back with the cliched and childish excuse of `he started it all`.
#142 Posted by tahmed32 on March 11, 2003 6:17:27 pm
Saminasha #131 you write ``Hey...I thougth only my ma`s side came from Genghis Khan... ``
Great great great grand Uncle Genghis chased Jay`s monkey ancestors all the way to the southern tip of the India. What do you say, eh distant cousin?
Great great great grand Uncle Genghis chased Jay`s monkey ancestors all the way to the southern tip of the India. What do you say, eh distant cousin?
#143 Posted by sadna on March 11, 2003 8:22:12 pm
ahmadzai #118
Good post, thanks. One person or the actions of India cannot rid you of fundamentalists, it will happen only through the Pakistani public`s own consensus.
If Musharraf had not made a point out of excluding his political rivals who could rally public consensus unlike him, he wouldnot be in this predicament.
Good post, thanks. One person or the actions of India cannot rid you of fundamentalists, it will happen only through the Pakistani public`s own consensus.
If Musharraf had not made a point out of excluding his political rivals who could rally public consensus unlike him, he wouldnot be in this predicament.
#144 Posted by harish_hyd on March 11, 2003 8:57:52 pm
#141 by tahmed32 on March 11, 2003 6:17pm PT
And what were your ancestors? Pigs?
And what were your ancestors? Pigs?
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