Excavating India

Ref Sudalaikkannu #24

[Farzana, I`m not sure what exactly you`re advocating that muslims do. I do agree with you that the decision by the lucknow HC is biased & bad. It shifts the standards to some historical proof.]

You are darn tooting that it is bad to ask for historical proof. That would then demonstrate that the Qutb Minar was built by destroying 27 Jain and Hindu temples and there might be a demand to pull down the Qutb Minar.

Further, it would also remove Maasanamuthu`s claim for preferential admission to professional education. But Maasanamuthu already has got his degree. He wants to now ensure his daughter Love Queen gets preferential admission too and that this process should continue forever. The fact that not a single Dalit has gotten any advantage from the quota system is all the more to Maasanamuthu`s advantage. He doesn`t want any truth interfering with this.

[By this standard, we should take away land granted to harimau`s great great grand father by some 2-bit raja - land denied to the peasant working it. We should may be return all the land to the adivasis.]

The only problem for you is that my family has NEVER owned any land. I haven`t got a clue how to raise any crop nor how to manage the pallans and paraiyans who till the land. On the other hand, your kind of murderous thieves take it out on the Dalits on a daily basis in Tamil Nadu. As to the REAL owners of the land, it is only the pallans and paraiyans because every single caste in Tamil Nadu, despite naming their children Tamil Mani or Tamil King, speaks broken Telugu or Kannada at home or claim provenance from some other part of India.

PS. Have you completed the 108 worshipful names for Goddess Khushbambika? Have you finished translating into English the movie song ``Ottakattha kattikko``? All of your folks in Tamil Nadu are waiting for the former and the entire readership of Chowk is awaiting the latter to learn about the true level of depravity to which people of your ilk have sunk.

hamidm 2 # 39

``and don`t wash up after going to the loo .........``
Objection me lord!
This is not true. Actually, I have heard as well as seen that the Pure Ones don`t wash their hands with soap after cleaning their .... in the loo. And they use same lota for cleaning .... in the toilet as well as for washing their faces. Yuck!

#32 by rsridhar on March 13, 2003 8:32pm PT
re:#2 by tenaliramanna
I have said it before, this is a Pakistani woman in an Indian body. That is why Pakistanis love her so much.

Hey, it`s not our fault your women love Pakistani guys so much.
In my university most of the Indian girls go out w/Paki guys,
they tell us that Indian guys are no fun plus they are not good looking
like the Pakistani guys.

Farzana baybeh(Bibi)

It is high time you applied for Pakistani citizenship. Home is where the heart is.
But, once you become a Pakistani citizen what would you write about?? It would curb your highly creative instincts as you would then be living in a `pure land`, `an ideal country` of Pakistan which is devoid of any flaws, where there is no racism, where people of different religions walk and eat, hand in hand. In a society which is so perfect you would have no material for your criticisms. So bibi, better stay in India and keep spitting venom.

But then ..maybe the perfect Pakis of the.. oh so perfect Pakiland will make you their Prime minister..you never know. Try it..

..... i think this is good ...... i did not read the article because i don`t give a flip about indian muslims or babri masjid or the imam of delhi - but it smells good ......... it is good because it tells me there are 165 potential trouble makers in india who can make life more miserable for the miserable hindoos ...... i don`t know why i don`t like the hindoos - there is just something about them ........ they are different and some people say they eat heeng and smell bad and don`t wash up after going to the loo .........they are the enemy, because if they arn`t, then who is ?..........they are the other ............ but i am afraid these indian muslims might make trouble for us like those smelly afghans and chechens and palestinians and arabs.......... pakis have this habit of trying to adopt anything that calls itself a muslim ......... what about locusts who fly over from morocco? .............

............ i just don`t want to hear about the plight of muslims in india........ we have 140 million of them in pakistan and have a hard time feeding them and keeping them from peeing in the streets ........ we don`t want to know about what they are doing in the streets of bombay and chandralaguptamapura .............enough! ..... this stuff gives me a headache ......... what about those redwings and the market was up 269 points today and spring is around the corner ............ i think chicago is going to sweep the oscars and renee is so cute ............ zeta is fat - the indian muslims can have her ............

This is not about religion. This is not even about grievances. This is absolute gibberish. Farzana, whatever were you on while writing this piece? I`d love to try it out too.

Farzana,
another very interesting piece of writing.

Muslims in India are very large in number and have the swing vote

in elections in a number of states.

India is playing with fire in Ayodhya and Gujrat.

Those that seek the light of wisdom in the night by burning their own

house will not find it.


Ras

re: this SH!TTY article
Farzana Vershey is a frikking moron with little knowledge of what the Hindu mind is thinking. My blood is really boiling at this article. Is this the face of an Indian muslim educated woman?
Read the following:
``If the majority community wants peace, then they should respect the rights enshrined in the Constitution that have been created for the protection of the minorities.``
There was a time i supported the so called secular agenda and saw in Hindutva a challenge to this agenda. Not anymore. This is now just a powerstruggle between Hindus who want to construct a temple at one of the most sacred sites for Hindus and the rest of pseudosecularists who want to deny them this.
Why do the muslims not respect the religious feeling of hindus and allow this temple to be built? what are they going to lose?
Let not this stupid writer forget that minorities are at the mercy of the majorities in any country. In USA, we Indians never forget that and try to assimilate. In India, muslims have not tried to assimilate in the last 50 years. The country was partitioned only for the muslims. The Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists etc did not demand another country. So, muslims in India are in a different category, whether they like it or not. They have their rights enshrined in constitution because our forefathers were great and they foresaw something like this will happen. However, these are just laws on a piece of paper. If muslims in India antagonise hindus, no law of land will protect them. So, i suggest that this pathetic writer spend time educating muslims to forge alliances everywhere, send their children to school with hindus, learn about the hindu culture etc.
Hindus revere SriRam. I, living in US, would like to see a temple come up in Ayodhya but not on the blood of muslims. This is against hindu ethos. Muslim rulers in the past have destroyed hundreds of temples in India and no muslim has ever said ``we are sorry for what happened``. Muslims in India cannot expect sympathy with their cause if they do not respect the sentiments of millions of Hindus.

While building a temple in Ayodhya touches an emotional chord among all hindus (i personally do not care and i have said so in the past), building a temple at exactly the same site as a mosque in Ayodhya is a political gimmick. If muslims realise this, there are only 2 options:
1. Tell the hindu zealots that they will be happy to see a temple come up in Ayodhya and muslims will even help in the matter. This will settle matters once for all and create a fund of goodwill that will sweep away the votes that hindu fundamentalists are hoping to get out of all this.
2. Tell the hindu zealots that no temple can be built here because a mosque exists here and that they have rights enshrined in the constitution that protects them.
The second option is what the muslims in India have opted for. It is legal but it antagonises the whole community. It creates the impression the muslims do not respect hindu religion. Then, the zealots ask, what are they doing in India? Was not Pakistan created for such people?
The first option is the best.

``If the majority community wants to make an animal its mother, go ahead, but most Muslims are perfectly happy with their own mothers. (The PM of a large country with such diversity goes on record to say, “I would prefer to die rather than eat beef.”)``
The author needs to understand why Cow is sacred to religious Hindus. I emphasise the word religious because really, no educated Indian in today`s day and age sheds tears on the pathetic state of the Indian cow. Cows are in abundance in India and are not cared after, mostly because India is poor and is hardly able to care for its poor citizens and has little resources to spend on the Holy Cow.
Still, the author should research into ``why the Cow is so holy to the hindus`` and stirs an emotional chord among its religious sections. The old seer (the late Shankraracharya of Kamakoti, also known to Tamilians simply as ``the Kanchi Seer``) often spoke of Cow as Holy. Most hindus do not eat beef for this very reason. This is not a gimmick. Muslims, living side by side with hindus, need to understand why this is so. Criticising it will not be helpful.


``It is strange that there has been little protest against the High Court verdict that the site must be dug up by the Archeological Survey of India.``
What is there to protest? There is a deadlock on both sides. No solution is in sight. May be, if ASI can shed lights on what really lies beneath the so called site of SriRam temple, we may come to a rational conclusion and settle this thing amicably.



``There are 163 million of us. And instead of waiting in the sidelines only to be told that we have been taught a lesson and should now toe the line to live peacefully in a land we are contributing to, must we not take the plunge and be ready to dig our own political graves? Dissent is not anyone’s personal fiefdom.``
This author now sounds like the Shahi Imam of Jama Masjid who recently advised the muslims to form their own political party. The writer should seriously find out how to solve problems of the muslim minority within the context of existing laws and prevailing conditions (where Hindutva elements are on the rise` thanks to lack of leadership among muslims and secular parties) rather than go on a whining mode again and again. I, for one, am really fed up of this kind of writing.

Sridhar

re:#23 by ssdhillon
The problem with Islam today is not the religion itself but the fact that people like Shahi Imam have become self-appointed guardians of Islam. Muslims have not proteseted his statements, some of which were clearly anti-national. There is a rebellious stream in every muslim in India and hindus are wary of this.
You do not find Shankaracharyas telling Hindus how to conduct themselves. They do not have any political following, only religious. This is the strength of Hinduism. Muslims in India have disappointed me. I thought they are different. I do not see them being incarcerated in Guntanama Bay like their Paki brothers are. But, they still talk the same language. They protest in support of Palestenians or Serbs. They think they are a part of muslim ummah, a nebulous concept at best.
Sridhar

re:#2 by tenaliramanna
I have said it before, this is a Pakistani woman in an Indian body. That is why Pakistanis love her so much.
Sridhar

re:#3 by Urstruly
And, are you going to pay for the arms. You would wish the muslims stand up in revolt against Hindus in India, would you not? That would make you happy. Muslims in India have to decide their own fate but surely they know better than to listen to stupid people.
Sridhar

re:#8 by Urstruly
You think Farzana is going to do something good for humanity? Methinks, this is a sexually frustrated woman who has been spurned by many males. Or else she is raving mad. Make your pick.
sridhar

Hello urstruly,

My theory is that if you are anti-Hindu/Indian, then you are also anti-Muslim/Pakistan. Because by being anti-Hindu/India, you are damaging Muslims and Pakistan more than anything else.

So, from your point of view, please help me understand what is anti-India and anti-Hindu? Is it in isolation with Muslims/Pakistan exempted? I mean, there are Muslims who are Indians and Hindus who are Pakistanis, right?

More . . .in view of the definition given, using white men as referees, since we seem to be stuck at that, at http://www.bbc.com? . . . ````The Muslim-majority state of Pakistan occupies an area which was home to some of the earliest human settlements and two of the world`s major religions, Hinduism and Buddhism. The modern state was born out of the partition of the Indian sub-continent in 1947 and has faced both domestic political upheavals and regional confrontations. ````

To my interpretation of the white man`s truth, nothing can make things clearer about Pakistan`s heritage. Why, then, would you be anti-Pakistan?

sincerely,

Veeresh Malik

#27 by Tipu on March 13, 2003 5:49pm PT
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Bukhari is NOT a leader atleast not like Tagodia or Ashok Singhal who are NOT even a religious leader but failed professional or unemoployed medical doctor .
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Bukhari is a leader in every sense of the word. He even issues fatwas before major elections asking muslims to vote en masse. His word carries a lot of weight....mainly because of the lack of any decent political leadership. Bukhari, Singhal, Tagodia are all leaders. Whether they are fit to be leaders is a different story altogether.

Bukhari will never be charged because people like Farzana will immidiately call it anti-muslim....they will not acknowledge the fact that Bukhari sides with Osama not peace. This is like pakistanis raising pro-Osama slogans in an anti-war(pro peace) rally!!!.BTW even Sai Baba should be charged for defrauding people of money and property not to mention disgusting sexual crimes.

I did not understand the rest of your post including the china part.

One more thing, Urstruly, wrt your I am anti Indians/Hindus statement . . . this is what the Government of Pakistan says wrt recruitment into the Pakistan Civil Service at http://www.css.com.pk/Rules/rules.html

````iv) A candidate who has married a person who is not a citizen of Pakistan shall not be eligible for appointment provided that a person who marries an Indian national with the prior permission of Government may be regarded as eligible for appointment.````

So now are you telling me that your anti-India/Hindu thing is a personal position, contrary to what the Pakistani Government states?

#25 by arjun_m on March 13, 2003 5:49pm PT
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Many muslims complain about a clash of civilizations...Why does it become a clash of civilizations? Because muslims in delhi who have very little in common with palestenian/afghan/iraqi muslims come out in huge numbers and protest against the ``atrocities`` on ``palestenian/afghan/iraqi muslims``. Its a clash of civilizations because muslims sometimes make it that way...
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It is strange that the generally moderate Indian muslims protest in favour of Taliban, Osama etc. I can understand the sympathy for palestinians but support for the Taliban and Osama at the cost of their own country??? The blame has to lie on people like Bukhari who misuse their religious powers for political use like issuing fatwas.

I am not suggesting that misuse of religious power is a uniquely muslim problem. Even Sikh and Hindu religious leaders consider themselves no less than Abraham Lincoln.