Observations of an American Expat in Europe

samina/stuka/nazar/temporal/veeresh and any other normal person on this board - I got this on the internet for your reading pleasure:

THE FUTURE PAKISTAN
Two Top American Executives at IBM, USA

Alex: Hi John. You didn`t come to work yesterday
John: Yeah. I was at the Pakistani Embassy trying to
get my visa.
Alex: Oh, really? What happened? I`ve heard that
these days they have become very strict
John: Yeah, but I managed to get it
Alex: How long did it take to get it stamped?
John: Man, it was a long queue. Bill Gates`s Grand son was waiting in front of me and they really gave him a hard time. The poor guy even brought the property papers for his house in Seattle to show them that he will return to USA. I went there at 4:00 a.m. to get in the queue and there were tons of people ahead of me.
Alex: Really? In Pakistan, at the US Embassy it only takes an hour to get a visa for USA.
John: Yeah! But that`s because no one in Pakistan would want to come to USA, except Americans who have taken Pakistani nationality and want to bring their kids here.
Alex: So, when are you leaving?
John: As soon as I get my tickets from the company in Pakistan. I`m so excited. I will be getting a chance to finally fly with the world`s fastest growing airline, Pakistan International Airlines (PIA). Sort of dream come true, you know.
Alex: How long are you planning to stay in Pakistan?
John: What do you mean ``how long``? I will try and settle in Pakistan. My company has promised me that they will process my Green Book as soon as possible.
Alex: Really? Man, you`re a lucky one. It`s very difficult to get the Green Book in Pakistan. Last year my cousin and his family went there on a tourist visa and they`re not coming back now.
John: Yeah. That`s why I`m planning on marrying a Pakistani girl there and then sponsoring my parents and my brother and sister
from New York to Pakistan.
Alex: But I hear you can find lots of good American girls in Karachi and Lahore.
John: Yeah, but I prefer Pakistani girls. They are so
much more superior to our girls, and what great brunette complexion they have!
Alex: What city are you going to?
John: Karachi. The company has an office in downtown
Saddar. Yeah, the salary is good but the cost of living is quite high because of all the people flocking to this high-tech mecca.
Alex: I hear the exchange rate is now $100 to a Rupee! That`s just too much. What about Quetta and Peshawar? What are they like?
John: No idea. But they are cheaper than Karachi,which is the world`s headquarter for information technology now.
Alex: I hear the quality of life in Pakistan is incredible.
John: Yeah, man. You can buy a BMW for Rs.30,000, and
a Mercedes for less than Rs.45,000. But my dream is to purchase a Suzuki Turbo FX-800 which costs roughly Rs.90,000. But what a sweet design, great curves, and it purrs to the touch.
Alex: By the way, which company are you gonna work
for?
John: Haji Jalal Puttarjee & Bros. Technologies, a pure Pakistani conglomerate specializing in embedded software.
Alex: Man, you`re so lucky to work for a pure Pakistani company. They are really intelligent and unlike any American body shops
that have opened their fly-by-night outfits in Pakistan. The Pakistani companies pay you even when you`re on the bench. My friend, Paul Allen, used his bench time to visit the Makran Coast, the most gorgeous resort in Pakistan, I hear.
John: Yeah, man, you`re right. I hope the US learns
something from them and follow in their footsteps. It seems all we do is borrow more and more money from the Askari Bank.
Alex: How are you going to cope with their language?
John: I`ve been learning Urdu since my school days. I always dreamed that one day I`ll head for Pakistan ever since my uncle
bought me that T-Shirt from Islamia College. At the Consulate they tested my proficiency in Urdu and were quite impressed by my score in TOUFL(Test Of Urdu as a Foreign Language).
Alex: Boy! You`re so damn lucky.
John: Yeah. I`ll be travelling in the world`s fastest train, Tezgam. I`ll be visiting the world`s largest theme park in Changa
Manga, and I`ll be visiting the famous Lollywood where I might meet the sons and daughters of movie legends like Nadeem, Sultan Rahi, Anjuman, Reema and the gorgeous of all, Madam Babra Sharif.
Alex: You know, the Pakistani President is scheduled to visit USA next year and I hear that he may increase the number of employment visas.

John: That`s very true. Last month, their Labour Minister, Naswar Khan Pakhtoon, visited the White House and donated Rs.20,000 for the re-development of the World Trade Centre at Silicon
Valley, and has promised more if we follow the models of the fast
developing high-tech cities, Gujranwalla and Raiwind. Bill Gates was lucky to have a chance to meet him. Very lucky person.
Alex: Will you be calling on Dave? I hear that he has made it big there and has a beautiful house on the Lyari River in Karachi.
John: Yeah, I`ll be meeting him.
Alex: Anyway, nice chatting to you, John. Good luck, you lucky guy.
John: Yeah, and the same to you, Alex. By the way, don`t ever go to the Pakistani Consulate in shalwar-kameez because they will think you`re too Pakistanised and may doubt that you will ever come back, and your application will be rejected. And yes, don`t forget to say to the Visa Officer politely: ``As`salam-o-Alaikum, aap kaisay hain?`` It will show them you`re a cultured person.

Mr. Doe,

Welcome to Chowk. What kind of dissent against US policy viz Iraq have you been privy to in Europe?

Saima and Stuka

Saima seems to be looking at citizenship through a post nationalist interpretation, one way of ``globalizing identity`` and one response to the kinds of nationalisms that mandate that working people like you, Stuka arent given a hard time in the US, just because you are an immigrant.

And you do know that just because you have no problem with the growing invasive policies towards our civil rights-we do. This country has a chance at working because those rights were guaranteed us in our Constitution. I caution the people who are agreeable to these alterations of our Constitution to think about the process that has prevented questionable alterations from taking place before-this process has been bypassed. This is a serious issue which any honest Rep, Dem, Ind. would acknowledge has ramifications for the US`s future.

Nasah:

I agree with you 100% but those very rights that we take for granted exist because the United States has been strong enough to fight of totalitarian forces.

Of what use is my right to privacy if it allows terrorists to infiltrate and weaken the very foundation of this country. I would rather sacrifice my right to privacy than watch the horror of Sep 11, 2001 again. You may call it puerile patriotism and maybe that is what it is. However, it is a tradeoff I am willing to make.

There are people out there who hate this way of life and their unknowing and unwilling allies are the leftists of this country who provide a camouflage for these enemies to operate in. The ``liberals`` of today remind me of the leftists of the 60S and 70s who marched in the West for detente with the Soviets, not realizing what fate would have awaited them if they did the same back there.

Saima:

``Dissent should make an impact--people in power have to listen for it to work. It seems to many that the US administration isnt listening anymore. ``


So your grouch is not about freedom of speech and the right to dissent. It is that the administration is not listening to those who disagree with it.
To you, a country has ``freedom`` only if the administration always listens to those who disagree. If that is not intellectual fascism I don`t know what is.

The members of the KKK also disagree with the government in many ways. Should the administration listen to them?

Or is dissent considered only the holy grail of the left?

The rise of ``police state culture`` in US is indeed worrisome, but at this point of time I don`t see any other alternative to eliminate the menace of Islamic terrorism.

At this time - it is clear that US and the World needs some heavy-duty actions to contain terrorism.

“I would willingly give up some right of privacy to protect this system which gives me more dignity as a human being than the country of my birth.”(STUKA)

My dear young man – there U R -- talking like an inexperienced newly arrived -- neophyte immigrant – with justifiable pangs of puerile patriotism.

this country and its SYSTEM is -- NOT PROTECTED -- by ‘giving up’ -- your right of privacy –

this country IS BASED upon-- “protecting your rights of privacy” – unlike other countries – or at least it DID – until it was hijacked by a cabal of Texas RED NECKS – alias OIL Thugs – albeit temporarily.

Contrary to mr. aschcroft beliefs --

this is not a fascist or a communist country – where rights of the individuals are taken away -- to “protect” -- the Party designed “rights” -- of the community -- or the State –

this is NOT a country where -– rights of 99% are curbed to “protect” them from the crimes of 1% -- US system is NOT based upon this totalitarian premise.

this is a country where the rights of the INDIVIDUAL reign supreme – over the rights of the State -- to make both the community and the State -- truly FREE – and truly representative.

that’s the SECRET of the success of this economic GIANT – not the vice versa

And remember young man – don’t EVER give up your precious -- Right of Privacy –

your true DIGNITY comes – from KEEPING them – NOT by giving them up --

NOT EVEN -- ‘some” of them.

Welcome to CHOWK ``John Doe``.

Man this Patriot II thing is even scaring the Red White and Blue!

``All we are saying is, give WAR a chance``

My how times have changed.


Ras

temporal #16

I recognise that your preaching to me ``it is all right to learn from any and every where`` is a masterful way to cover up the fact that there is ABSOLUTELY NO discussion let alone activism among expat Pakistanis about the extremist organisations in the US preaching hatred like Jamat Ul Faqra or about expat Pakistani funding of jihadi organisations back home.

So I`ll trust my own judgement about balance, thanks.

#4 by sadna on March 13, 2003 11:58am PT
What? Pakistani expat donors to jihadi organisations are rednecks? Not a chance, those are people of `principle`.

Please don`t make this out to be a Paki-Hindi issue.
For once get your head out of your bottom and think with open mind.

#11 by sadna on March 13, 2003 2:49pm PT
On the other hand, I heard about JamaatUl Faqra and funding of jihadi organisations by Pakistani expats NOT from any discussions among expat Pakistanis or any expat Pakistani community action against such organisations but from the Western press reports of US govt investigations and convictions related to this organisation.

Please, don`t tell me you believe the western press.
I believe the western press as much as I believe the Indian press:)

John

The threat posed by the radical Islam is real. The sect of `fastest growing religion in the West` was of this radical Islam.

If the 9/11 was delayed for another few years by Osama, the calamity would have been of a far bigger magnitude.

The Americans have correctly identified the problem and the world at large should be grateful to them for having the courage to do something about it.

I am grateful to them because they got Pakistan rid of `Taalibanization`. Our army shows great fire and fury towards the India but has been scared of its own tribal areas & radical Islamists. Probably was in cohoots with them.

So please go through this checking done by the Americans with an open mind. It is good for all of us in the long run. Only the Americans can do such a worldwide massive data management and tracking system.

t,
Who are the rednecks in IDRF? Do you know Vijay and Sarla Prakash and the work they have been doing? I sincerely hope they can sue Biju Matthew type scum for libel in an American court.
regards

#11 by sadna:


`Why would I mention IDRF? Let me point out, you know about IDRF only because of lengthy discussions and exchanges on the subject among Indian expats online and in the streets, discussions which, IMO have been inconclusive..``

---wrong...on several counts:)

``...On the other hand...``

---it is all right to learn...from any and every where...


and yes: ``Amazing.``

:)

rgds,

t

saimashah # 12

``useful idiots``

i believe its from lenin and refers to left-wingers in western countries. Apparently he held them in low regard but found them helpful in propagating a sick ideology.

do you think there is any truth to his quote?

Title is misleading. These are observations by an Asianized-American expat.

re: Stuka

facts are what you make of the world. I see this fact: The future is more important than the past.
There are two ways to deal with an unpleasant fact: One is to accept it, the other is to try and change it. Once you call a bad thing is bad, it becomes easier to change it regardless of which border u reside in. As for passports--they came about because of the creation of nations. they are a fact today but may not remain a fact tomorrow. fact is, things change. Fact is people use different facts to prove their own beliefs. Fact is people are different, fact is people are similar. Facts can be manipulated. What seems like hyperbole to you is a different connect-the-dots for another person.

Even though there is dissent in USA, it seems to be making no impact on the powerful elite in Government. And yes, it is a `fact` that USA has a democratic system of government, it is also a `fact` that the democracy is far from perfect. Dissent alone cannot take the place of Justice. Dissent should make an impact--people in power have to listen for it to work. It seems to many that the US administration isnt listening anymore.