Veeresh Malik March 21, 2003
#63 Posted by Ahmadzai on March 24, 2003 6:36:27 am
mohar11 @ # 44:
``Now, all you have to do is convince the INS and the rest of the world. ``
The initiators of Nazi practices i.e. The US and UK are themselves being proven wrong on Iraq by the rest of the world.
Increasingly, Bush and Company are being equated with terrorists. If they are wrong on Iraq, they were also wrong to begin INS registration process. You know it and every one knows it. I have to prove nothing. It is already proved.
Btw, my response was only for Indians to introspect ;)
``Now, all you have to do is convince the INS and the rest of the world. ``
The initiators of Nazi practices i.e. The US and UK are themselves being proven wrong on Iraq by the rest of the world.
Increasingly, Bush and Company are being equated with terrorists. If they are wrong on Iraq, they were also wrong to begin INS registration process. You know it and every one knows it. I have to prove nothing. It is already proved.
Btw, my response was only for Indians to introspect ;)
#62 Posted by tahmed32 on March 24, 2003 6:36:26 am
nazarhayatkhan #60 On the subject of phremones and such: only last week they came up with a study saying that the male sweat is a turn on for women.
Indeed, I am still struggling to really understand the way women are wired. I discovered how little men know after living with one of these things - namely, my own dear wife - for two decades. I learnt: Dont ever try to fake it with a woman. Women have an x-ray going straight into your brain and can read your thoughts like a radiologist reads the x-ray.
So, I am not surprised that male sweat gets women excited whereas for a man sweat just stinks. I firmly believe women have powers of seeing, smelling and sixth sensing, that men cannot begin to understand.
Indeed, I am still struggling to really understand the way women are wired. I discovered how little men know after living with one of these things - namely, my own dear wife - for two decades. I learnt: Dont ever try to fake it with a woman. Women have an x-ray going straight into your brain and can read your thoughts like a radiologist reads the x-ray.
So, I am not surprised that male sweat gets women excited whereas for a man sweat just stinks. I firmly believe women have powers of seeing, smelling and sixth sensing, that men cannot begin to understand.
#61 Posted by mohar11 on March 24, 2003 6:36:26 am
#55 by tahmed32
//...Nor will my views on respect and appreciation for all religions and cultures change ... blah .... blah....//
You are such a great guy. Pakistan is full of such great guys like you, it`s just that some of us ``inhumane`` hindus are such ``morons`` who just cannot appreciate your greatness. So you will have to keep blowing your own trumpet until we get it.
Like - here is an example of your respect for all communities including hindus:
24 Kashmiri pandits massacred in south Kashmir...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2879607.stm
//...Nor will my views on respect and appreciation for all religions and cultures change ... blah .... blah....//
You are such a great guy. Pakistan is full of such great guys like you, it`s just that some of us ``inhumane`` hindus are such ``morons`` who just cannot appreciate your greatness. So you will have to keep blowing your own trumpet until we get it.
Like - here is an example of your respect for all communities including hindus:
24 Kashmiri pandits massacred in south Kashmir...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2879607.stm
#60 Posted by nazarhayatkhan on March 23, 2003 11:17:24 pm
#32 Reply Tehmed32
nazarhayatkhan #26 you write ``Even when there is nothing on your mind, she is on the defensive and avoids talking to a stranger. ``
Maybe my honesty lets my inner thoughts slip out but it is a universal phenomenon. I find the `Realtionships` subject interesting and take it as a science. The subject is full of intangibles, delicate nuances, electro-magnetic waves, emotions, body talk, urges, attractions, obsessions, fixations, desires though nothing much may be visible or quantifiable.
Would you believe once my New York friend told me that when she is undergoing periods, even an odd taxi driver tries to make a pass at her. Because she exudes such a aroma around her.
#59 Posted by veeresh on March 23, 2003 11:17:23 pm
Preamble as postscript . . . sorry for the cut-paste, but isn`t this getting repetitive?
+++
The 14th Sikh Regiment left Jullundur on the 20th of February for Iraq and proceeded to Baghdad, where they were detailed for garrison duty. Later in the year the 14th Sikhs moved to Kut al Amara, where they were employed in closing down the military cantonment and demolishing the post. Early in 1923 the 14th Sikhs were back again in Baghdad and were responsible for the protection of the Royal Air Force aerodrome.
At this time tribesmen in Kurdistan, under the leadership of Shaikh Mahmud, were actively hostile to the British administration. They had met with considerable success in the autumn of 1922 and the British forces had not been able to deal with them during the winter on account of the bad weather. In February troops were urgently required in Kirkuk and ``A`` and ``B`` Companies, under Captains Maclaren and Spankie,, were detailed for this role. The two companies were transported there by air on the 21st of February. This was the first occasion in history on which a large body of troops had been carried by air for military operations. The two companies, in full fighting equipment, were moved in nine troop-carrying aeroplanes and the actual journey in the air took less than an hour, whereas by march route: Kirkuk could not have been reached in less than a week.
The 14th Sikhs took part in the punitive operations directed by the Commander of the Royal Air Force in Iraq against Shaikh Mahmud and his forces in May and June, 1923. They joined a column under Colonel B. Vincent and concentrated in Kirkuk. The column marched from Kirkuk on the 12th of May and for a fortnight traversed the Kurdistan country, making many long marches. However, no serious fighting took place, and no casualties were suffered. The column returned to Kirkuk in June and then dispersed, although the 14th Sikhs remained at Kirkuk until the end of September.
For their services in Kurdistan, Major Story received brevet promotion to lieutenant-colonel and Subadar Bogh Singh was awarded the Military Cross. The Regiment arrived back in Baghdad in October and remained there until its return to India at the beginning of 1924.
+++
``the West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do.``
----------
Samuel P. Huntington
+++
+++
The 14th Sikh Regiment left Jullundur on the 20th of February for Iraq and proceeded to Baghdad, where they were detailed for garrison duty. Later in the year the 14th Sikhs moved to Kut al Amara, where they were employed in closing down the military cantonment and demolishing the post. Early in 1923 the 14th Sikhs were back again in Baghdad and were responsible for the protection of the Royal Air Force aerodrome.
At this time tribesmen in Kurdistan, under the leadership of Shaikh Mahmud, were actively hostile to the British administration. They had met with considerable success in the autumn of 1922 and the British forces had not been able to deal with them during the winter on account of the bad weather. In February troops were urgently required in Kirkuk and ``A`` and ``B`` Companies, under Captains Maclaren and Spankie,, were detailed for this role. The two companies were transported there by air on the 21st of February. This was the first occasion in history on which a large body of troops had been carried by air for military operations. The two companies, in full fighting equipment, were moved in nine troop-carrying aeroplanes and the actual journey in the air took less than an hour, whereas by march route: Kirkuk could not have been reached in less than a week.
The 14th Sikhs took part in the punitive operations directed by the Commander of the Royal Air Force in Iraq against Shaikh Mahmud and his forces in May and June, 1923. They joined a column under Colonel B. Vincent and concentrated in Kirkuk. The column marched from Kirkuk on the 12th of May and for a fortnight traversed the Kurdistan country, making many long marches. However, no serious fighting took place, and no casualties were suffered. The column returned to Kirkuk in June and then dispersed, although the 14th Sikhs remained at Kirkuk until the end of September.
For their services in Kurdistan, Major Story received brevet promotion to lieutenant-colonel and Subadar Bogh Singh was awarded the Military Cross. The Regiment arrived back in Baghdad in October and remained there until its return to India at the beginning of 1924.
+++
``the West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do.``
----------
Samuel P. Huntington
+++
#58 Posted by harish_hyd on March 23, 2003 10:56:48 pm
#55 by tahmed32 on March 23, 2003 8:32pm PT
[The ridicule (or appreciation) of individuals whom I can only consider to be morons means nothing to me.]
Ditto for everyone else here, Mr. Tahmed. And there are a lot of us out here who consider you to be exactly that. Thanks.
[The ridicule (or appreciation) of individuals whom I can only consider to be morons means nothing to me.]
Ditto for everyone else here, Mr. Tahmed. And there are a lot of us out here who consider you to be exactly that. Thanks.
#57 Posted by tahmed32 on March 23, 2003 9:03:45 pm
ajeet #52 Actually, I think the Iraqi resistance is pretty much folding like a house of cards. In just three days of ground war, the US is 300 miles into Iraqi territory - this is incredible progress by any historical standard (e.g. after the invasion of Normandy, the allies had progressed a mere 2 miles in the first three days, and even the Blitzkrieg of the Germans in Poland and France was at snail`s pace).
Also, before the war, the major issue for the US was to try and avoid large numbers of Iraqi prisoners since that would tie up too many US troops. So the strategy was to seek ``capitulation`` (rather than ``surrender``) with leaflets thrown over Iraq advising Iraqi soldiers that this would mean they simply leave their weapons and go home. By all indications that is what has happened, and the resistance and casualties (on both sides) have been far lower relative to progress made than any of the vocal critics (including some of my friends on chowk) were talking about before the war. And I dont think anyone expected Saddam would be taken out of the picture in the first few hours of the war. One lady (maryam, her article is a few steps below this one) was predicting 500,000 civilian causalites and others were backing this figure as being based on some authoritative prediction. Even the Iraqi information minister himself reported on TV only 307 civilian wounded and three dead (and perhaps these include Saddam and one of his murderous sons). Neighboring Jordan has refugee facilities set up, and not a single Iraqi has yet bothered to leave Iraq.
This is not mitigate the loss of life, since even one life is precious. But I think that whatever the politics, the fact is that the US is doing a very good job at conducting this war even though the critics will never acknowledge it.
Also, before the war, the major issue for the US was to try and avoid large numbers of Iraqi prisoners since that would tie up too many US troops. So the strategy was to seek ``capitulation`` (rather than ``surrender``) with leaflets thrown over Iraq advising Iraqi soldiers that this would mean they simply leave their weapons and go home. By all indications that is what has happened, and the resistance and casualties (on both sides) have been far lower relative to progress made than any of the vocal critics (including some of my friends on chowk) were talking about before the war. And I dont think anyone expected Saddam would be taken out of the picture in the first few hours of the war. One lady (maryam, her article is a few steps below this one) was predicting 500,000 civilian causalites and others were backing this figure as being based on some authoritative prediction. Even the Iraqi information minister himself reported on TV only 307 civilian wounded and three dead (and perhaps these include Saddam and one of his murderous sons). Neighboring Jordan has refugee facilities set up, and not a single Iraqi has yet bothered to leave Iraq.
This is not mitigate the loss of life, since even one life is precious. But I think that whatever the politics, the fact is that the US is doing a very good job at conducting this war even though the critics will never acknowledge it.
#56 Posted by Romair on March 23, 2003 8:32:34 pm
tahmad #27: ``So please never, ever, make such generalizations.``
Can I ask you a simple question: Why are you always so uptight?
You need to learn to chill out and stop trying to act as the Chowk police (unless you have been given that position by the Chowk Staff). People are just presenting their opinion here, having some fun, learning a few things, and un-learning a few others. They are expressing thier own views, not yours. You can take them or leave them, but cannot try to tell them to do this or not do that.
So I will continue to make generalizations, whenever I feel like it. I would advise you to just skip over my posts.....
Can I ask you a simple question: Why are you always so uptight?
You need to learn to chill out and stop trying to act as the Chowk police (unless you have been given that position by the Chowk Staff). People are just presenting their opinion here, having some fun, learning a few things, and un-learning a few others. They are expressing thier own views, not yours. You can take them or leave them, but cannot try to tell them to do this or not do that.
So I will continue to make generalizations, whenever I feel like it. I would advise you to just skip over my posts.....
#55 Posted by tahmed32 on March 23, 2003 8:32:33 pm
mohar11 #53 ``We idol-worshippers are very grateful to you for such generosity and understanding.``
Good. You can ridicule this ``generosity and understanding`` if you wish. The ridicule (or appreciation) of individuals whom I can only consider to be morons means nothing to me. Nor will my views on respect and appreciation for all religions and cultures change simply because this same respect is denied by individuals like you to the religion or culture to which I was born.
Good. You can ridicule this ``generosity and understanding`` if you wish. The ridicule (or appreciation) of individuals whom I can only consider to be morons means nothing to me. Nor will my views on respect and appreciation for all religions and cultures change simply because this same respect is denied by individuals like you to the religion or culture to which I was born.
#54 Posted by mohar11 on March 23, 2003 7:55:02 pm
#39 by tahmed32
//...I think certain actions and policies of the indian government stink, as do certain indian individuals on chowk.but this does not cause me to lose respect and appreciation for the hindu religion, or for hindus as a community..//
Gee - thanks man! We idol-worshippers are very grateful to you for such generosity and understanding. I was really worried what would happen if someday, you do lose respect for hindu religion because of the stinky actions and policies of Indin Gov`t and other Indian hate-mongers in Chowk.
So - it is a huge relief to know at least one Paki hasn`t lost respect for hindu community. But that`s hardly any consolation to our hindu a**es. You see - we still have got 14 million other pakis ( only 10% of Pakis are extremists, as admitted by Mushy Almighty Himself ) to worry about.
So please pardon us if we hindus sound a little ``self-righteous`` and display a little ``psychological shortcomings``. You see - there is a Jihad declared on us by 14 million strong army of the faithful. Then there is Mushy, the Mighty who sometimes fancies ``unconventional`` wars on us.
So what can we hindu cowards do? Some of us become self-righteous, others hate-mongers. But it is all our fault. We know it. So please, forgive us.
//...I think certain actions and policies of the indian government stink, as do certain indian individuals on chowk.but this does not cause me to lose respect and appreciation for the hindu religion, or for hindus as a community..//
Gee - thanks man! We idol-worshippers are very grateful to you for such generosity and understanding. I was really worried what would happen if someday, you do lose respect for hindu religion because of the stinky actions and policies of Indin Gov`t and other Indian hate-mongers in Chowk.
So - it is a huge relief to know at least one Paki hasn`t lost respect for hindu community. But that`s hardly any consolation to our hindu a**es. You see - we still have got 14 million other pakis ( only 10% of Pakis are extremists, as admitted by Mushy Almighty Himself ) to worry about.
So please pardon us if we hindus sound a little ``self-righteous`` and display a little ``psychological shortcomings``. You see - there is a Jihad declared on us by 14 million strong army of the faithful. Then there is Mushy, the Mighty who sometimes fancies ``unconventional`` wars on us.
So what can we hindu cowards do? Some of us become self-righteous, others hate-mongers. But it is all our fault. We know it. So please, forgive us.
#53 Posted by mohar11 on March 23, 2003 7:55:02 pm
More evidence of ``respect`` for hindu community-
24 Kashmiri pandits massacred in south Kashmir...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2879607.stm
24 Kashmiri pandits massacred in south Kashmir...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2879607.stm
#52 Posted by Ajeet on March 23, 2003 6:46:06 pm
Tahmed #47
I have seen the reports about Saddam being taken out on a stretcher, but I don`t know how credible they are. If he is actually out of circulation, then another myth that Bush and company have floated that the iraqi government will fall like a house of cards, as soon as he is gone, is just a myth. The iraqis seem to be putting up a credible front.
I have seen the reports about Saddam being taken out on a stretcher, but I don`t know how credible they are. If he is actually out of circulation, then another myth that Bush and company have floated that the iraqi government will fall like a house of cards, as soon as he is gone, is just a myth. The iraqis seem to be putting up a credible front.
#51 Posted by veeresh on March 23, 2003 6:29:54 pm
Various interacts . . .
a) I dont want to get drawn into the yo mama/my mama bigger stuff wrt India/Pakistan.
b) What I wanted to put across with this article is that I don`t think it is/was correct on anybody`s part to assume an ``after victory`` scenario for the US/UK troops.
c) The reference to Vietnam was more to put across a prolonged scenario, which may not be only within mainland Iraq. It could be anywhere in the region, from the Med to the Indian Ocean.
d) It was also to put across that the mass popular uprising in favour of US/UK troops, may not occur, will not occur.
e) And finally, long ago I realised that generalising about people by race, colour, country was not such a smart thing to do. There would be other parameters, and I found that people who had travelled (as different from tourists . . .) were often simply better human beings.
Thank you all, and as events unfold in nearby Iraq, here is one feedback not making it to the media:- where are the reports on the dissensions about whose troops are getting to go forward on the ground?
Really, this is one time I am sograteful for the multiplicity of news channels in India . . .
a) I dont want to get drawn into the yo mama/my mama bigger stuff wrt India/Pakistan.
b) What I wanted to put across with this article is that I don`t think it is/was correct on anybody`s part to assume an ``after victory`` scenario for the US/UK troops.
c) The reference to Vietnam was more to put across a prolonged scenario, which may not be only within mainland Iraq. It could be anywhere in the region, from the Med to the Indian Ocean.
d) It was also to put across that the mass popular uprising in favour of US/UK troops, may not occur, will not occur.
e) And finally, long ago I realised that generalising about people by race, colour, country was not such a smart thing to do. There would be other parameters, and I found that people who had travelled (as different from tourists . . .) were often simply better human beings.
Thank you all, and as events unfold in nearby Iraq, here is one feedback not making it to the media:- where are the reports on the dissensions about whose troops are getting to go forward on the ground?
Really, this is one time I am sograteful for the multiplicity of news channels in India . . .
#50 Posted by nasah on March 23, 2003 5:42:29 pm
``No evidence of Nuclear, Biological or Chemical WMDs found in Iraq`` --
but plenty of Weapons of OIL for -- Texas Reconstruction -- found alright -
- guess the Low IQ man`s ``Intelligence`` didn`t KNOW that --
... not a ``War of Liberaton`` after all -- a beautiful War of -- OIL Expropriation -- indeed.
it IS the OIL stupid....
but plenty of Weapons of OIL for -- Texas Reconstruction -- found alright -
- guess the Low IQ man`s ``Intelligence`` didn`t KNOW that --
... not a ``War of Liberaton`` after all -- a beautiful War of -- OIL Expropriation -- indeed.
it IS the OIL stupid....
#49 Posted by Pankaj on March 23, 2003 5:42:29 pm
Dear Mr. Ahmadzai
Sir, your knowledge of the other issues like UN resolutions, 1971 war etc also appears to be as sketchy as your knowledge of the Siachin issue. After reading some of your analogies and arguments, I have serious doubts if you know the stuff you are talking. Some of your analogies, as some Chowkies have already pointed out, are so preposterous that any bright teenager with reasonably developed critical faculties could shred them to pieces. The confusion of ideas and befudding of issues points out towards an emotional mind, which though admirable in certain cases, is not exactly a substitute for rational thinking.
PS Let me aver, nevertheless, that I fully endorse your laudable emphasis on introspection.
Sir, your knowledge of the other issues like UN resolutions, 1971 war etc also appears to be as sketchy as your knowledge of the Siachin issue. After reading some of your analogies and arguments, I have serious doubts if you know the stuff you are talking. Some of your analogies, as some Chowkies have already pointed out, are so preposterous that any bright teenager with reasonably developed critical faculties could shred them to pieces. The confusion of ideas and befudding of issues points out towards an emotional mind, which though admirable in certain cases, is not exactly a substitute for rational thinking.
PS Let me aver, nevertheless, that I fully endorse your laudable emphasis on introspection.
#48 Posted by nasah on March 23, 2003 5:42:29 pm
````Allies Hit Setbacks on Road to Baghdad
By CALVIN WOODWARD
.c The Associated Press
Iraq used ambushes and even fake surrenders to kill and capture U.S. troops Sunday, inflicting the first significant casualties on the allied forces driving toward Baghdad. U.S. war leaders declared the invasion on target despite the bloody setbacks.````(AP)
road to hell is paved with good intentions.......or bad intentions --
By CALVIN WOODWARD
.c The Associated Press
Iraq used ambushes and even fake surrenders to kill and capture U.S. troops Sunday, inflicting the first significant casualties on the allied forces driving toward Baghdad. U.S. war leaders declared the invasion on target despite the bloody setbacks.````(AP)
road to hell is paved with good intentions.......or bad intentions --
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