They Shoot Kashmiri Pandits, Dont They?

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ferz:

let me re-state for you and for the knee-jerk brigade that follows you what I wrote recently:


i am against loss of life through acts of terror, be it by individuals, organizations or states

...wonder how many Indians and Pakistanis will join this (rather lonely) Pakistani in reaffirming above…(when i posed that query on another board nobody came forward…must be the war coverage or more important things to do)

specifically for the Pandits, until the Kashmir Cancer is cured, this is the problem of GoI…and from all reports one reads (including the latest column on the subject by dilip in today’s rediff) the indian politicians of all colours and feathers pay only lip service to this problem…and are NOT interested in offering a viable solution…

bspnd,

t

...leave it this psycho to stoop low to score points over some more innocent deaths...sick woman...find yourself a job and become a productive member of society instead of whining all day...or move to kabul....

[Earlier, deaths in Kashmir were deaths in Kashmir by militant outfits; no one made an issue of it being a Muslim or a Hindu death.]

How about deaths in Gujarat? Were they Muslim or human beings who died? Do you make a distinction there? How about Godhra? Were those Hindu deaths or kaffir deaths?

Muslims who are in a minority in any State have to determine if their kaffir rulers interfere in the matters of the Muslim Faith. If not, they have a duty to support the State. If in fact their religious freedoms are being interfered with, then the Muslims have the duty of jihad against the State and, if the jihad has no chance of overthrowing the goverment, they have to migrate to Muslim countries where they can practice their religion in peace. This is Islamic Law as handed down by various Islamic scholars.

Now that Afghanistan is not a very good choice (what with music and TV), those Indian Muslims who think they have no religious freedom in India can in fact choose Pakistan. Wasn`t Pakistan created as the homeland for Indian Muslims?

Ref temporal #1

[specifically for the Pandits, until the Kashmir Cancer is cured, this is the problem of GoI…and from all reports one reads (including the latest column on the subject by dilip in today’s rediff) the indian politicians of all colours and feathers pay only lip service to this problem…and are NOT interested in offering a viable solution… ]

Of course Musharraf and the Government of Pakistan are offering the viable solution of killing all the minorities in the Valley. Let us take it, I say. Once the minority is all gone, it will be easy to eliminate the vermin that is infesting the Valley. We can send the Ummah in the Valley to Jannat while taking their women as sex slaves.

Pay these Fakhrs back in the same coin.

[`Panun Kashmir’ is a dangerous concept until such time the fate of the Valley is decided, and it never will be.]

The fate of the Valley has been decided and has been a fait accompli since Oct 26, 1947.

In case you don`t remember history, Kashmir acceded to India.

Those Jinnah-lovers who don`t like it just have to lump it.

Shame ! Shame ! Shame on those who still find ``reasons`` to justify torture of minorities ! Shame ! shame ! But how can those who are shameless be shamed????

http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/mar/25guest.htm

Lalit Koul

The real tragedy of Kashmir
March 25, 2003

Tum aankhon ki barsaat bachaaye hue rakhna;
Kuch log abhi aag lagaana nahin bhoole!

[Save your tears for now, my dear;
Some people have not yet tired of setting fires!]


A telecom engineer in Kashmir peeked out of his balcony to see if it was safe to venture out. He saw two men toting their guns outside, waiting for him to come out.

A neighbour who had seen the engineer in his balcony informed the gun-toting men. Within minutes, doors were being slammed. The engineer and his family looked at each other and said their final good byes. His wife persuaded him to hide in a rice canister in the attic. The two men barged into the house and demanded to see the engineer. His wife tried to dodge them by telling them that her husband was out on duty.

The men would not listen. They searched the house and found the engineer in the attic. They did not allow him to climb out, and unloaded their Kalashnikovs into the rice canister.

The white rice turned red. The remaining gunny bags in the attic soaked the spilled blood. His wailing widow pleaded with them to kill her as well. They would not. They told her they wanted her to suffer for the rest of her life, mourning her husband.

The engineer was Mr Deepak Ganju, a Kashmiri Hindu. His neighbour was a Kashmiri Muslim.

April 30, 1990 was a normal day in the lives of the residents of Shali village in Kashmir`s Anantnag district. But the evening was not the same. As the sun was setting on the village, three armed men knocked at the door of a poet and teacher who had taught many residents of his village.

The armed men ordered him to accompany them to their camp for questioning. Sensing something amiss the teacher`s son insisted he would accompany his father.

The dreadful news came after two days of painful anxiety. Two dead bodies were found hanging with their limbs broken, hair uprooted, and portions of their skin slit open and burnt. The dead poet and teacher were 67-year-old Kashmir Hindu Pandit Sarvanand Koul `Premi` and his son Pandit Virendra Koul.


On May 2, 1990, a man, his wife and his male cousin were having dinner when four armed men asked the trio to accompany them. Three innocent lives were taken to the assigned place of execution near a mosque on the banks of the Jhelum.

When the executioners shot the man from point-blank range the cousin jumped into the river and swam to safety. The man`s body was kept in the mosque for the night and then thrown into the river. The wife was also killed; her corpse tied with a stone and thrown into the Jhelum. Her body was never recovered. The dead couple was Professor K L Ganju of the Sopore Agricultural College and his wife -- forsaken Kashmiri Hindus.


These are not fantasy stories. These are true stories about innocent victims mercilessly killed by Islamic terrorists in Kashmir. The true stories of Kashmiri Hindus ethnically cleansed from their place of birth. True stories of unsung heroes who laid down their lives because they believed in the Indian Tricolour. True stories of those fathers, mothers, sons, daughters, brothers and sisters who lost their lives because they believed in one religion.

Deepak Ganju, Professor K L Ganju, Sarvanand Premi of the Kashmir valley did not deserve this. They were as peaceful as a lotus in the Dal lake. They did not terrorise anybody to deserve such treatment. They did not force anybody else to believe in their religion. Instead they believed in the `live and let live` philosophy. But what they got in return was death.

So what is Kashmir`s real tragedy?

Is it lack of political freedom for Kashmiri Muslims? Is it lack of economic prosperity for Kashmiri Muslims? Is it lack of autonomy for local Kashmiri politicians and their cronies? No, No and No.

The real tragedy of Kashmir is those innocent victims who lost their freedom of basic living. The freedom to live. It is those innocent victims` relentless longing to return to their loving homes. It has been more than 13 years since Kashmiri Hindus and other minorities in the Kashmir valley were forced to run for their lives. Incidents of grotesque violence against innocent Kashmiri Hindus were the stark realities of those times. Those were the situations under which Kashmiri Hindus fled their homes.

Since then 400,000 Kashmiri Hindus have been living in deplorable conditions as refugees in their own country. Some misguided politicians and pseudo-secular columnists might tell you it was Jagmohan, then the governor of Jammu and Kashmir, who forced Kashmiri Hindus to leave Kashmir. (That is what some readers of my last column on rediff said.)

But there is nothing farther from the truth than this ridiculous theory. It is an unfortunate tragedy that these politicians and pseudo-secularist columnists cannot see beyond their nose, cannot see the crimes committed against Kashmiri Hindus (the three cases cited in this column are three out of hundreds of such cases) and instead come out with preposterous theories without valid data. I am sure these people can see the tragedies, but choose to ignore them because that is what suits their agenda.


In the last 13 years, governments have come and gone in India. Human rights commissioners have come and gone. But none of them has given any credence to the plight of Kashmiri Hindus. And why should they? Kashmiri Hindus have been tolerant, non-violent, peace-loving patriots. They have not and will not engage in any kind of violence.

So why would any government or human rights commission care for them?

That is the real tragedy of Kashmir.

Shame on you ! People who were targetted and murdered and leave in terror are not ``refugees`` ? Your positions are no different from that of your brother Narendra Modi. Exactly the same kind of sophistry is used to justify the murder of gujarati muslims. That there were political reasons involved. That it was a ``reaction`` to a heinous crime!

The heights of your shamelessness are reached in this passage where you blame the victims for their misfortunes:

[quote]
So this is a good time to ask why the Pandits did not become terrorists. One, they were better-off and from 1947 to 1989, they had pretty much say in government matters. They are mainly professionals, not artisans or small businessmen. They lived a relatively safe life alongside their Muslim neighbours because Kashmir never was an Islamic state. They had a great deal of support from abroad. And there is a reason why they are called ‘migrants’ and not ‘refugees’. Because they chose to leave. To now rail against the ‘heroes’ makes no sense if you cannot hold your head high and stay where you are. I have to keep saying this: the campaign posters threatening them to leave were the work of the political forces.
[end-quote]

You have lost all credibility with me. As a fellow indian, I had thought that you felt for all indians. Today I understand you do not. That you are willing to find ``reasons`` why a particular community should be tortured. Now I understand that your complaints and whining have a sectarian tone.

so far harimau is ahead of rsaxena uncontrolably spilling vile against farzana.

what`s sad is rather then countering farzana`s arguments, hatred for her and her religion is what comes out. this intolerane, as intolerance anywhere, is a sign of weakness.

her argument that pandit`s should take a stance for `kashmirayat` is a call against the intolerance ravaging india. i have limited knowledge about the issue, but her goal sounds noble. if her arguments may be lacking or insufficientt then those should be criticized. perhaps a different method is needed. but why all these slurs against her and her religion?

Temp:

``am against loss of life through acts of terror, be it by individuals, organizations or states

...wonder how many Indians and Pakistanis will join this (rather lonely) Pakistani in reaffirming above…"

You said it yourself...u are the exception. The dominant discourse in both countries accepts violence. That is the reality.

More on the valley later.

This is really a new low on Chowk.

rozaiba

The writer argues the pandit`s should take a stance for `kashmirayat.` How does she knows that Pandits do not. Does standing for Kashmiriyat only mean that they should support Kashmir joining Pakistan or separating from India? If they don`t, should they be killed by Muslims?

She also claims that Pandits willingly left their homes in Kashmir to become refugees for their `short-term` advantage. When someone sees his family members and neighbors being killed, and leaves his home to become a refugee in another part of the country, leaving their jobs, their businesses behind, what short-term advantage is he looking for? When Muslims in godhra moved into Muslim dominated areas in Gujrat afte rthe killings, did they do so because of `short-term` advantage? How low is that kind of argument?

Temporal

`specifically for the Pandits, until the Kashmir Cancer is cured, this is the problem of GoI…and from all reports one reads (including the latest column on the subject by dilip in today’s rediff) the indian politicians of all colours and feathers pay only lip service to this problem…and are NOT interested in offering a viable solution…`

What specifically do you mean by this statement?

This is what I understand from various articles posted by this author here in chowk. Her view points are hightly partisan and un-balanced, to say the least.

Here is how author`s rationale goes:

When Muslim minority are victims of massacre (e.g.in Gujrat) - she blames hindus. This is understandable - Hindus in Gujrat sure failed bigtime to protect the minority among them. It sure is a blot on the face of much-vaunted secualrism in India.

Now - last week hindu minority were victims of massacre in Kashmir. Who is to blame? Curiously, it is the same hindus again. How is that possible? I mean - going by the logic presented in case of Gujrat - shouldn`t we be putting the blame on muslim majority of Kashmir for failing to protect their minority?

But nope - for some reasons, it is the victims who are blamed for their own massacre.

On the otherhand - if we blame hindu minority in Kashmir for their own predicament, should we also put the blame on muslims in Gujrat for their own massacre? How stupid does that sound?

We have all castigated RSS/VHP and rightly so, for the killings in Gujrat. SHouldn`t we be doing the same with APHC/JKLF/DFP/whatever for kiilings of Pandits?

When muslim are massacred in Gujrat, we shout Secularism is dead in Gujrat.
When pandits are massacred in Kashmir, shouldn`t we shout Secularism is dead in Kashmir?

But no - Kashmir is still secular - it is the Pandits who are not secular because they have ``abandoned`` their muslims neighbours. They have abandoned `secular` kashmir where they lived in `relative security`.

What is difference between Pandits moving into Hindu Majority Jammu and muslims in Gujrat moving into muslim-dominated areas after the riots?

Shouldn`t we recognize the fact that victims in both the cases are one and the same? Where is the need for this divisive diatribe against the victims of a brutal massacre?

This holier than thou, my pain is bigger than yours attitude of Farzana and her friends like temporal is disgusting. Even before Indians get a chance to respond, temporal starts badmouthing us in #1. Its an Indian issue and Indians shouldnot be free to comment? Who does this person think he is?

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#1 by temporal:

``... the indian politicians of all colours and feathers pay only lip service to this problem…and are NOT interested in offering a viable solution… ``

We all know the quality of indian politicians. Do YOU or your friends (Farzana or Dilip) have any VIABLE SOLUTION which is acceptable to the indian people? I garauntee you that any indian politician would love to hear from you. If there is a chance of SOLUTION, even advani may get in touch with you. Just a reminder to you ... the guru of all liberals and friend of pakistan, mr. kuldip nayyar`s VIABLE SOLUTION doesn`t involve giving kasmir valley to pakistan on a platter.

thank you farzana for pointing out an important factor that the rest of us were unaware of--- everything that`s happening in kashmir is because of those greddy stupid spineless pandits.

have you lost your day job at mid-day? is this why we continue to be tortured by you here on chowk?