Survival of the Fittest

Alleged Cole mastermind arrested

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (CNN) --Pakistani authorities Wednesday announced the arrests of six suspected al Qaeda members, including a man believed to have been behind the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole in Yemen.

Whalid ba Attash, also known as Tawfiq bin Attash or Khallad, was arrested in a police raid in the port city of Karachi, Pakistan`s Information Ministry said. He is also suspected of helping plan the September 11, 2001, terror attacks.

U.S. officials called the arrest ``very significant`` and believe Attash is ``very close`` to al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden. One official said Attash ``will know about future al Qaeda plans.``

Investigators say Attash is a former bodyguard of bin Laden and was the mastermind of the Cole bombing, which killed 17 U.S. sailors.

They also believe Attash met with two of the September 11 suicide hijackers and served as an intermediary between some of the hijackers and September 11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

The September 11 attacks on New York and Washington killed more than 3,000 people and triggered the U.S. war to oust al Qaeda from Afghanistan.

Pakistani authorities identified Attash as a Yemeni national and said his arrest averted a ``major terrorist attack.``

Police found 150 kilograms (330 pounds) of high explosives and a large quantity of guns and ammunition when he was arrested, the Information Ministry said.

Attash is believed to have lost a leg in combat in Afghanistan.

-- CNN National Security Correspondent David Ensor and Producer Syed Mohsin Naqvi contributed to this report.

ZahraJ # 283

If you don’t mind, I will not address the first part of your post, which deals with three issues i.e. Iraq, Afghanistan/Taliban and Human rights violations in Muslim countries, because now I am pretty bored writing about these issues. If you are interested in my views, you can check my `all` replies through my name profile, which is chowk`s new feature. However, I would like to address some other issues, which you have raised in your article:

You ask:

Out of sheer curiosity: Why aren`t the so called fanatics involved in any constructive activities in their own countries?``

You have to define the word fanatics for me first. If you mean those people who are alleged to be Al-Qaida operatives, then my answer is that I don`t know. However, I would like them to fight their fights against whoever in their own countries and not in ours.

But if by fanatics you mean any Muslim then I would blame your selective judgment. A news like banning of patloons in NWFP schools makes the headlines but the recently passed Compulsory Education Act of NWFP which forces parents to get their children primary education is ignored. This act holds parents responsible for their children`s education and a parent denying his offspring education may earn him jail. Another part of this Act makes the education free until matriculation. This doesn`t make news. By the way they also set up madrassas all around the country voluntarily to educate poor but this doesn`t qualify as education as per your standards. At the risk of giving you a heart attack allow me to break this to you that according to a report published in 2002 GOP has not opened a single high school in whole country since 1991. I didn`t see anyone of you screaming at that though.


Why are they focused on the West so much?

Because West is focused so much on them


Why do they destroy their own country`s infrastructure out of rage against the West?

Example? Even Saddam Hussain didn`t set his oil wells on fire. However, Taliban did destroy artifacts in bamyan (which does not count as infrastructure) because they were subjected to a slow genocide through hunger by UN. What do you expect?

Now, if the argument is that the West was involved in initiating all the mess in their respective countries and now it`s the wake-up time.

I think they hear you, some are more awake then the others. The argument of West initiating the whole mess, however, is correct.


Muslim countries should stop boasting about their natural resources and nuclear power stuff. There is much more to it. First of all there is no unity and no strength.

There is no unity, but that should make you happy; shouldn`t it? On the other hand I see you complaining. On one hand you deplore the concept of Ummah and then you complain why there isn`t unity? These are two mutually exclusive things. Either you support the concept or you don’t. If you don’t then you shouldn`t pussyfoot around unity etc, You have to make up your mind.

Irony**2 is that two different sects belonging to the same religion cannot live under the same roof. There is way too much hatred.

This myth that was perpetuated since ever has been proven wrong. In Pakistan not two but 6 different sects have formed coalition and they pursue the common goal. They are the only one demanding a constitution and un-compromised democracy in country. But nothing pleases you? In Iraq Sunni and Shia hold Qura`n over there heads together and demand an Islamic state and are butchered mercilessly in front of the whole world (AlFlooja). This proves the myth wrong.



Before you go out and curse others, at least acknowledge your own shortcomings for they will lae-doobo-fy you.

First of all I don’t curse and second, I have actually done something but again you didn`t notice. Selective judgment.

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tahmed mian,

.......there are also bleeding heart liberals who give away millions to save fat whales and gaudy butterflies while children are starving twenty miles away in the inner city........there is no end to stupidity............all this talk about love, peace and brotherhood between the “ordinary” people on both sides of that miserable border sounds good, but it means nothing until the governments decide to bury the hatchet ........bollywood actors and paki expats in california are like the Dixie chicks – they can say whatever they want, it is not going to change diddly........like I said, try making a trip to cuba or buy a cohiba in the us ......... think about it – the differences between cuba and the us are a lot sillier than the dispute between India and Pakistan ( they say it is an ideological difference of opinion!)………

.........this does not mean that I think Kashmir is worth killing or dying over .........heck, I can’t think of anything that is worth dying for – other than single malt whiskey and my kids ........but while this state of undeclared war exists between the pathetic pakis and the horrible hindoos, it is incumbent upon all of us to abide by the rules of the cold war – no shan masalas for the Indians, and no tilda basmati for the pakis........i will be the first one to admit that I break my own rule almost every Friday by going out drinking with the enemy – but that is because all my paki friends turned forty and discovered god ....... after all, forty is a magical age ..........

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Oh well .. Sorry for the late response.

#242 by arjun_m “Chips are designed and engineered in India. Intel is also going to setup a chip plant in India..

Guess you missed my point. I obviously meant, “Indigenously developed technology”. If Intel brings its technology and uses India’s cheap labour, what good does that do for India for technical advancement ? The technology is still Intel’s and will remain so. For example how many chip plants does Intel have in Taiwan or Korea? Leave aside Japan. The answer is Nil. And still Taiwan is the market leader in inexpensive computer peripherals as well as almost pushed HP and Compaq out of the laptop business with their indigenous brands.

You see, When India was producing those 50’s model Austin shaped vehicles (I forgot what they’re called), it was better. They were good and solid though only outdated in body design. I have sat in one of them and thought these were surprisingly spacious and a comfortable ride. India saved money on modifying design moulds for decades with these vehicles but at-least, as far as I know, these were 100% made in India. Now, you have these tinny Marutis with perhaps a 70% imported kit being assembled, with just the seats and rubber parts manufactured locally. Has that helped India technologically? Wake up my friend.
There never was a chip manufacturing industry in India…

Oh yes there was, around mid nineties ! Perhaps small but existed nevertheless. Substandard though. I was myself stuck with made-in-India Ram once. Had to throw it out.

Are you kidding me? Are Cell Phones high-tech enough for you? What about the latest GPS enabled cell phones? And China didnt get there by locking foreign industry out..It got there by throwing the door wide open…

China doesn’t let anyone in unless the foreigners commit on transfer of technology. I’m not sure though if your statement is correct in advanced cellphone technology developed in China. Most of the high-tech items (and there aren’t many) which china produces are foreign companies manufacturing in China. But China will extract the technology out of them. The example of cellphones isn’t really a good example because cellphones are just toys with ordinary technology which can be copied easily. The thing with this kind of low-cost consumer technology is “Marketing” at which a small country like Norway, with a much smaller technological base than countries like the Netherlands, Britain, Japan and the USA, beat everyone else. Nokia of-course.

Throwing the ‘doors’ wide open is akin to a prostitute throwing her legs wide open, which India is doing. That’s the reason China does not throw its doors wide open unconditionally.

your RAM industry in Pakiland example is flawed because Pakiland doesnt have the technological knowhow to make RAM chips. The only way Pakistan can make RAM chips is if foreign manufacturers bring in that technology...

You know very well that AST Computers was a Pakistani’s (Safi Qureshi) venture and was the laptop market leader back in early 90’s. Hardware technology is commonplace by now. So manufacturing hardware is not a problem. The problem is marketing it at a price, which is acceptable to the consumer. The Indian automobile example, which I gave, illustrates this point. That automobile cost India more manufactured domestically than if they had just imported it, but they didn’t because they wanted import substitution even at a higher cost. That was the correct policy but the price to the consumer was high thus they switched to the assembled kits to make automobiles more accessible for people. Malaysia however still follows the same import substitution policy at a high cost with their 100% domestic version of Mitsubishi Lancer. But Malaysia is richer and their people can afford those cars.

Rgds

I am personally very happy that Jinnah/Nehru are not popping up as frequently as they were at chowk.

Sure, they have their place in history. Read Dalmia`s book on that.

tahmed#275
I agree with a lot of what you say (good to agree on some things:-).
However, based on my interactions both here and in India, I am afraid the Indian chowkies more or less accurately reflect Indians` sentiments. The Indians with whom I talked on the subject are thoroughly p-offed with Pakistan right now and think that the Vajpayee govt. is too soft towards it under the American pressure (according to their perception).
Fortunately, this is not all. Indians` sentiments towards Pakistan change rather abruptly. I recall that the Indian hatred towards Pakistan was at its peak following the nuclear coming-out-of-the-closet by both countries, when Vajpayee went to Lahore. While his visit generated demonstrations on the streets of Lahore, he was greeted with such joy back home that he was planning to fight the 1998 elctions on the platform of bringing the two countries together before Kargil intervened. So don`t despair!

hamidm#276
If your post is all jest and good humour, I have no problem with it at all. If not, I would urge you to talk to any surviving uncle who may have had a real-life experience of living with the horrible hindoos. And don`t be surprised if he tells you that the teachers and shopkeepers who left were a lot less dirty and smelly than the `telis and nais` (expression used by my friend from Sahiwal!) who moved into their homes and properties. As for your drinking company, the horrible ones were imbibing guilt-free soma long before the French pea-soupers took a fancy to dukhtar-e-angoor. The dozens of brands of tolerably good whiskey and beer -as well as undrinkable wines- tells me that the tradition is surviving well in the progeny of soma-lovers.
Oh yes, the Kashmir dispute! Ony a fool -and there are quite a few in New Delhi`s south block- will deny that it is a core issue between the two countries. But for that rotten core to be fixed, it is necessary to stop the nuclear-powered taandav of hatred and contempt that has steeped into the veins, especially of younger generations.

bbabu #278 It doesnt really matter who talks more or less about the other country in real life. I hope these people in real life (Indian and Pakistanis) you mention do something other than talk politics (India-Pakistan or internal). There is much more to life. Most Indians and Pakistanis I know would laugh at this India-Pakistan rubbish that goes on all the time on chowk. They have much more interesting things to talk about in their professional lives for example. Even most articles written on chowk have to do with other things besides politics, although they dont get the amount of attention they deserve. But you will agree that for many posters India-Pakistan politics is all they can talk about. Or, once in a while, railing against the west.

#288 by harish_hyd on April 29, 2003 10:32pm PT
#280 by hamidm2 on April 29, 2003 8:29pm PT

You can`t digest the fact stated by tahmed that some Indians do charity work in Pakistan. But you should remember, the life of an average Indian does not revolve around thoughts of Paksitan. We do remeber how we have been attcked in the past three times but we know we won so no jealousy or insecurity..
Moreover, we are so busy with our internal matters.
But Paksitanis are brought up that way that they have to hate India so as to proove their loyalty to their country, this hatred was the basis of its initial birth and formation and its very existence now.
And yet I have seen many many good paklsitanis who happily feel friendly with Indians. Many of them have Indian sounding surnames like `sethi`, kakkar, gill, bhatti, malik ...

It`s a pity that the holy warriors of Jihadistan have brought a paradise and 72 virgins for themselves, but left the ordinary Paki to face humiliation and disgrace. Is it any wonder that Urstruly writes about war but not peace?


http://www.dawn.com/2003/04/30/letted.htm


Pakistan`s image in Ethiopia

The situation all over the world is bad for Muslims, specially for Pakistanis. I am working in Ethiopia where more than 50 per cent of the population is Muslims and the rest is Orthodox Christians. They both live in harmony. A lesson for Pakistanis.

I have met so many Indians working here. India is the most frequently-visited country for Ethiopians as they go there specially for IT training. All the cinemas here play Indian movies dubbed in Amharic. Recently, India had a very successful trade exhibition here.

It is disappointing that Pakistan does not even have an embassy here. So many Ethiopians and specially Ethiopian Muslims are interested in doing some business with Pakistani firms. Lots of youngsters after hearing about Pakistani IT institutes have shown interest in studying in Pakistan. They sent email inquiries to some well-known institutes a month back, but have not received any reply yet.

The only impression most people here have of Pakistan is of some prehistoric country full of fanatics and gun-toting people where women are raped in public. Even the Ethiopian Muslims do not feel happy about how Islam is being misinterpreted by some Pakistanis. The other day the CNN and the BBC were showing bearded Pakistanis protesting with guns in their hands. Is that the best we can do?

There is hardly anything civilized in programmes or the news about Pakistan. All the travel programmes and brochures have omitted Pakistan from their lists. So many Western colleagues of mine who have worked in Pakistan in the past as voluntary teachers or at NGOs serving the poor have had to give up their jobs and leave the country, as their lives were being threatened, and they were labelled `spies or Western agents`.

Is there anything good one can share about Pakistan? When shall I see any normality back in my country?

AKIF NAQVI
Ethiopia

dost-mittar #260
``But they all agree on one thing. The permanent hatred of Hindu India must be the unalterable pivot around which a long-term Pakistan policy has to built.``

A nation which has allowed armed religious organisations to prosper and proliferate fanaticism in its major cities for the last decade and a half , a nation which can do that to itself for the sake of enmity with India, has to really hate India.

Its a bit like Taliban, which in the name of upholding one principle- namely `purity` of religion, thought fit to jettison all other principles, for eg peace, the wellbeing of its women and its economy and its relations with the world.

hamidm2 #280 That Indian gentleman actually lives in the US (and he is a hindu, I might add). And believe it or not, there are lots of Indians who at one time or another have worked very hard on internationally funded projects that benefit Pakistan. And lots of Pakistanis who have done the same. The real world is not all Chowk politics. As for the cold war, like I said: OK for you to sit in the US and talk about drinking wine and engaging in cold war with India. Unfortunately, the vast majority of Pakistanis do not possess this luxury.
Here is something to make things even worse for you: a well-known Indian movie actor (also a nonmuslim) contributed at least once to a hospital in Pakistan. I wont name names since if he wanted to publicize this he would have done it himself.
And, just to send you to running to your last bottle of whiskey, it seems the Indian and Pakistani governments may even start talking soon. (I wont hold my breath on this last one though).

And yes, exchanging insults on chowk is not a patriotic act, even though I am sure lots of Indians and Pakistanis think they deserve the Nishan-i-Haider or Vikram Chakar or something for their posts. Patriots from both sides have been men in uniform from both sides who shed blood in 1947 and 1971. And patriots from both sides in future will be those who do what little they can to promote peace.

hamidm2 #280 That should have been 1965 and 1971, not 1947 and 1971 in the post I just sent. Time to go to sleep.