Baghdad Lullaby II
Bina Shah April 11, 2003
#24 Posted by pmishra2 on April 13, 2003 9:41:54 am
Top Ten principles of Islamist Thinking
--------------------------------------------
1. It is OK to be undeducated and backward looking
(# of books published in Arab countries in 2000 === books published in Greece in 2000).
2. It is OK not to master technology and science
(India has 2000 PhDs in Science and Technology every year, entire Arab world about 200).
3. It is OK to be ruled by brutal dictators
(Assad, Sadam, Ghaddafi,....)
4. It is OK to have a police state in which citizens can be murdered and tortured routinely.
(true of every arab country in the world)
5. It is OK to attack minorities and cleanse them systematically.
(Copts in Egypt, Kurds in Iraq).
But invasion by a foreign force which promises to leave in 6 months and destroys a hated dictatorship which has imposed itself for 20 years. NOT OK! IT IS AN ATTACK ON THEIR DIGNITY ! ISLAM khatre mein hai !!!
What a bunch of clowns. No wonder the whole lot are such a bunch of loosers.
--------------------------------------------
1. It is OK to be undeducated and backward looking
(# of books published in Arab countries in 2000 === books published in Greece in 2000).
2. It is OK not to master technology and science
(India has 2000 PhDs in Science and Technology every year, entire Arab world about 200).
3. It is OK to be ruled by brutal dictators
(Assad, Sadam, Ghaddafi,....)
4. It is OK to have a police state in which citizens can be murdered and tortured routinely.
(true of every arab country in the world)
5. It is OK to attack minorities and cleanse them systematically.
(Copts in Egypt, Kurds in Iraq).
But invasion by a foreign force which promises to leave in 6 months and destroys a hated dictatorship which has imposed itself for 20 years. NOT OK! IT IS AN ATTACK ON THEIR DIGNITY ! ISLAM khatre mein hai !!!
What a bunch of clowns. No wonder the whole lot are such a bunch of loosers.
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#23 Posted by ana_dobarah on April 12, 2003 7:49:21 pm
rsax:
some of us DO care about the shias who do get blown to bits in Pakistan, and the sunnis and the ahmedis and the christians and the women and children and all the innocent ones, minority or not....i could go on, but since you seem to have it in for us pakis anyways, i don`t see how my input would make any difference :-)
Bina: you`ve echoed questions i`ve been asking ever since this bloody mess began. thank you.
some of us DO care about the shias who do get blown to bits in Pakistan, and the sunnis and the ahmedis and the christians and the women and children and all the innocent ones, minority or not....i could go on, but since you seem to have it in for us pakis anyways, i don`t see how my input would make any difference :-)
Bina: you`ve echoed questions i`ve been asking ever since this bloody mess began. thank you.
#22 Posted by mohar11 on April 12, 2003 8:30:18 am
Say, why are Iraqis looting their own hospitals? I mean looting Saddam`s palaces is understandable but why hospitals, for god`s sake?
It is really a humiliating spectacle for Arab world - more than the military capitulation, which was a fore-gone conclusion anyway.
But as they say - no pain, no gain. Let the reformation begin. It is time the Arabs learn how to be productive citizens of the world instead of blowing up buildings and exporting wahabi terrorism to all over the world.
It is hard to believe that the texas dimwit could actually pull off such a complex task. At least the first step has been taken. Or so it appears. Only time will tell.
It is really a humiliating spectacle for Arab world - more than the military capitulation, which was a fore-gone conclusion anyway.
But as they say - no pain, no gain. Let the reformation begin. It is time the Arabs learn how to be productive citizens of the world instead of blowing up buildings and exporting wahabi terrorism to all over the world.
It is hard to believe that the texas dimwit could actually pull off such a complex task. At least the first step has been taken. Or so it appears. Only time will tell.
#21 Posted by harimau on April 12, 2003 8:30:05 am
``The Dutch have fortified Manaar, and make use of it for a Prison for Indian Princes, whom they can overpower or circumvene, when they are suspected of making Treaties contrary to their Interest, or to such as would willingly reassume their lost Freedom, by breaking the unjust Yoke of the Company`s Tyranny, perhaps, drawn on themselves by too much Faith or Incredulity; for that honest Company has always had a Maxim, first to foment Quarrels between Indian Kings and Princes, and then piously pretend to be Mediators, or Arbitrators of their Differences, and always cast in something into the Scale of Justice to those whose Countries produve the best Commodities for the Company`s Use, and lend the Assistance of their Arms to him who is so qualified by the Product above mentioned, and, at the Conclusion of the War, make the poor conquered Prince pay their Charges for assisting the Conqueror; and, when all is made up, and Treaties of Peace ready to be signed, then the Conqueror, their dear Ally and Friend, must suffer them to possess the best Sea-ports, and fortify the most proper and convenient Places of his Country, and must forbid all Nations Traffick but their dear Dutch Friends, under Pain of having the Company`s Arms turned against them, in Conjunction with some other potent Enemy to the deluded Conqueror.
The King of Charta Souri, on the Island of Java, is a fresh Instance of the Truth of what I relate. In Anno 1704, I saw him at Samarang, a Sea-port on the said Island, in great Splendor, and in high Esteem with the Dutch Commodore; but in Anno 1707 he fell under the Displeasure of the General and Council of Batavia, and in 1708 falling into their Hands, he was brought their Prisoner to Manaar, and cooped up on that small Island, there to spend the Remainder of his Days in Contemplation or Comments on the Deceit of worldly Grandeur, and of the Power and Pleasure of Sovereignty, or in humble Thoughts on Confinement, Exile and Poverty.``
From ``A New Account of the East-Indies, Being the Observations and Remarks of Capt. Alexander Hamilton from the Year 1688-1723``.
The King of Charta Souri, on the Island of Java, is a fresh Instance of the Truth of what I relate. In Anno 1704, I saw him at Samarang, a Sea-port on the said Island, in great Splendor, and in high Esteem with the Dutch Commodore; but in Anno 1707 he fell under the Displeasure of the General and Council of Batavia, and in 1708 falling into their Hands, he was brought their Prisoner to Manaar, and cooped up on that small Island, there to spend the Remainder of his Days in Contemplation or Comments on the Deceit of worldly Grandeur, and of the Power and Pleasure of Sovereignty, or in humble Thoughts on Confinement, Exile and Poverty.``
From ``A New Account of the East-Indies, Being the Observations and Remarks of Capt. Alexander Hamilton from the Year 1688-1723``.
#20 Posted by hamidm2 on April 12, 2003 8:30:04 am
romair mian,
...... there is one, and only one, reason the entire world was ``united`` against america - pe&#s envy ......
.......... it is the same reason that fat and ugly girls always bad mouth the good looking ones and call them airheads and ditzes ......... it is the inability of the half naked ``noble`` savage to recognize the fact that the pith-hat wearing bawana or saab is higher up on the ladder of evolution and is trying to help him....... it is a sense of helplessness on the part of people who cannot come to grips with the fact that their misery is of their own making........ it is because some people believe in all kinds of conspiracy theories instead of looking in the mirror .......... it is the result of a hopeless sense of inferiority and insecurity ........ it is the reaction of people whose days of glory are long gone but who can`t come to grips with the fact that they have fallen because they were wrong - wrong about everything ......... it is the reaction of a people who believe that their seventh century ideology is still relevant and who are looking for answers in ancient texts ........
........and all this silliness is encouraged by self-absorbed whiney intellectuals and poets who sit in their rooms with shades drawn instead of stepping out into the sunshine .............
...... there is one, and only one, reason the entire world was ``united`` against america - pe&#s envy ......
.......... it is the same reason that fat and ugly girls always bad mouth the good looking ones and call them airheads and ditzes ......... it is the inability of the half naked ``noble`` savage to recognize the fact that the pith-hat wearing bawana or saab is higher up on the ladder of evolution and is trying to help him....... it is a sense of helplessness on the part of people who cannot come to grips with the fact that their misery is of their own making........ it is because some people believe in all kinds of conspiracy theories instead of looking in the mirror .......... it is the result of a hopeless sense of inferiority and insecurity ........ it is the reaction of people whose days of glory are long gone but who can`t come to grips with the fact that they have fallen because they were wrong - wrong about everything ......... it is the reaction of a people who believe that their seventh century ideology is still relevant and who are looking for answers in ancient texts ........
........and all this silliness is encouraged by self-absorbed whiney intellectuals and poets who sit in their rooms with shades drawn instead of stepping out into the sunshine .............
#19 Posted by tahmed32 on April 12, 2003 8:30:04 am
Bhitai #12 I can do no better than cut and paste what I already wrote: ``Of course civilians have died. And young Iraqi and US and UK soldiers too. This joy is testimony to the fact that those deaths have meaning. They have given freedom and hope to 25 million long-suffering people. That is something to write poetry about. Not this political propoganda. ``
The point that should be clear from the above is that I consider every single death (civilian and military, regardless of nationality or ``side`` of the conflict) to be mourned. And meaning found for these deaths in the joy in the eyes of old and young, male and female, on the streets of Bagdhad. That is the HUMAN aspect of this war, the one that should be important to us as fellow human beings and as muslims. Not the stupid POLITICS that seem to be the only thing many ``intelligentsia`` in the muslim world seem to be concerned with.
So, please excuse me if I am not interested in joining you in converting the deaths and suffering and joys of real people into a political discussion.
The point that should be clear from the above is that I consider every single death (civilian and military, regardless of nationality or ``side`` of the conflict) to be mourned. And meaning found for these deaths in the joy in the eyes of old and young, male and female, on the streets of Bagdhad. That is the HUMAN aspect of this war, the one that should be important to us as fellow human beings and as muslims. Not the stupid POLITICS that seem to be the only thing many ``intelligentsia`` in the muslim world seem to be concerned with.
So, please excuse me if I am not interested in joining you in converting the deaths and suffering and joys of real people into a political discussion.
#18 Posted by temporal on April 12, 2003 8:30:04 am
binoo:
a clarification
no! make it an apology
upon reflection
i do appear to be unfair to bina
to have singled out only her
did not mean the way i did
should have known, indeed do know
her sensitive side
will blame my exuberant skeptic self
for the faux pas
meant to express this cynically:
we tend to forget pain and suffering
---time, distance, memory, closeness
they all contribute to dull and dilute
visceral pain
hope you forgive, friend.
a clarification
no! make it an apology
upon reflection
i do appear to be unfair to bina
to have singled out only her
did not mean the way i did
should have known, indeed do know
her sensitive side
will blame my exuberant skeptic self
for the faux pas
meant to express this cynically:
we tend to forget pain and suffering
---time, distance, memory, closeness
they all contribute to dull and dilute
visceral pain
hope you forgive, friend.
#17 Posted by rsaxena on April 12, 2003 8:30:04 am
...bina shah`s articles are concerned with everyone and his cousin`s well being...from women in india to iraqis in iraq...what a caring person...(wonder why no one cares about the shias in pakistan getting blown to bits nearly weekly)...
#16 Posted by temporal on April 12, 2003 8:30:04 am
Pir Sahib of AhmedSharif # 11:
“This was a pre-emptive strike, temporal sahib. :-) Aap naiN koi khata nahiN ki.”
BaRay miaN tou baRay miaN ab Chotay miaN bhee!……aik tou choti jhaRi nay apni mun mani Doctrine eejaad kardi hay…aur idhar aap nay apni!…aap ki saza double…dou sou naflaiN!
“This was a pre-emptive strike, temporal sahib. :-) Aap naiN koi khata nahiN ki.”
BaRay miaN tou baRay miaN ab Chotay miaN bhee!……aik tou choti jhaRi nay apni mun mani Doctrine eejaad kardi hay…aur idhar aap nay apni!…aap ki saza double…dou sou naflaiN!
#15 Posted by Bhitai on April 12, 2003 12:54:30 am
#12
Tahmed sahib
` And paid with the blood of its soldiers`
More iraqi civilians were killed than your `coalition` soldiers..so here goes your blood argument. In your words the killing of 100 americans somehow compensated for the killings of 100k+ souls(iraqis,kurds,iranis) he did with the US connivance?
Tahmed sahib
` And paid with the blood of its soldiers`
More iraqi civilians were killed than your `coalition` soldiers..so here goes your blood argument. In your words the killing of 100 americans somehow compensated for the killings of 100k+ souls(iraqis,kurds,iranis) he did with the US connivance?
#14 Posted by nazarhayatkhan on April 11, 2003 11:14:37 pm
Bina
To be honest, there are still many other louts like Saddam still hanging around.
Once they die, their families are in line for succession.
The wrteched people under them have no way of getting rid of them.
So I have no qualms about the US doing this dirty work for them.
As for Bush, he will be thrown out by his people within next two years.
#13 Posted by Romair on April 11, 2003 9:16:45 pm
hamidm #12: ``i don`t mean to be insensitve, but this was a noble and honorable war and the good far outweighs the collateral damage ``
I think you need to rephrase a bit, to
``this was a noble and honorable war and the good far outweighs the collateral damage`` for you. Doesn`t mean most people see it this way.
Aproximately, 99% of the countries have majority populations that see it the other way. Considering the fact, that goras and Muslims and chaptas and kallas etc. cannot even think alike on the type of underwear they are going to use, the fact that all of them thought this war to be something else that what you state, must mean they are on to something. Don`t you think?
Have you ever seen so many poeple from every single country in the world (except two) agree on any issue? Can you name one such issue?Schroeder and Osama on the same side. Musharraf and Vajpayee on the same side. Even Maulan Fazl and Hoodbhoy on the same side. That has to be something more than poetry. Or has everyone except you, gone nuts.....Maybe
The whole Clash of Civlisations debate has been turned on its head. Even Bush wasn`t expecting his gora populace in Europe to turn against him like this. That must have forced him to completely turn around his battle plans. Now all of a sudden, there is talk of liberating the Iraqis. If that was the issue over which this war was being fought, then what exactly was the use of bothering us with distracting justifications like WMD, Al-Qaeda links, attacked two countries etc. And what was the point of sending poor Hans Blix driving around in the Iraqi heat. And why go through the UN resolutions drama. None of them covered, ``Liberation.``
Why not say from the begining, USA is fighting to liberate Iraqis?
And when exactly did this love affair with the Iraqis start, all of a sudden. I though Americans hated Iraqis. A year ago, most of my American friends couldn`t even point to Iraq on the map. Now they are dying to liberate them. What gives? Any ideas.
In the end, it is the Iraqis who must decide if this was noble or not. If they think it is, then it is. If not, well then maybe there is a purpose behind, ``tits on a bull.`` And maybe you just haven`t observed the whole bull yet......
I think you need to rephrase a bit, to
``this was a noble and honorable war and the good far outweighs the collateral damage`` for you. Doesn`t mean most people see it this way.
Aproximately, 99% of the countries have majority populations that see it the other way. Considering the fact, that goras and Muslims and chaptas and kallas etc. cannot even think alike on the type of underwear they are going to use, the fact that all of them thought this war to be something else that what you state, must mean they are on to something. Don`t you think?
Have you ever seen so many poeple from every single country in the world (except two) agree on any issue? Can you name one such issue?Schroeder and Osama on the same side. Musharraf and Vajpayee on the same side. Even Maulan Fazl and Hoodbhoy on the same side. That has to be something more than poetry. Or has everyone except you, gone nuts.....Maybe
The whole Clash of Civlisations debate has been turned on its head. Even Bush wasn`t expecting his gora populace in Europe to turn against him like this. That must have forced him to completely turn around his battle plans. Now all of a sudden, there is talk of liberating the Iraqis. If that was the issue over which this war was being fought, then what exactly was the use of bothering us with distracting justifications like WMD, Al-Qaeda links, attacked two countries etc. And what was the point of sending poor Hans Blix driving around in the Iraqi heat. And why go through the UN resolutions drama. None of them covered, ``Liberation.``
Why not say from the begining, USA is fighting to liberate Iraqis?
And when exactly did this love affair with the Iraqis start, all of a sudden. I though Americans hated Iraqis. A year ago, most of my American friends couldn`t even point to Iraq on the map. Now they are dying to liberate them. What gives? Any ideas.
In the end, it is the Iraqis who must decide if this was noble or not. If they think it is, then it is. If not, well then maybe there is a purpose behind, ``tits on a bull.`` And maybe you just haven`t observed the whole bull yet......
#12 Posted by wajahat on April 11, 2003 7:56:39 pm
Bina Shah
An eloquent poem that contains within it the feelings of how we all feel. Its sad Bina, extremely sad. And our own individual baghdads haunt us today. We are afraid and we are angry yet we have never felt such helplessness in our whole lives. Your poem is touching and a deeply emotional piece.
Thank you for your effort and Thank you for giving words to how we feel today.
Regards
Syed Wajahat Ali
An eloquent poem that contains within it the feelings of how we all feel. Its sad Bina, extremely sad. And our own individual baghdads haunt us today. We are afraid and we are angry yet we have never felt such helplessness in our whole lives. Your poem is touching and a deeply emotional piece.
Thank you for your effort and Thank you for giving words to how we feel today.
Regards
Syed Wajahat Ali
#11 Posted by tahmed32 on April 11, 2003 7:56:39 pm
temporal #8 This was a pre-emptive strike, temporal sahib. :-) Aap naiN koi khata nahiN ki.
In fact I like Bina`s articles generally. This one unfortunately does not ring true. It is clearly insincere, unfortunately, and that is why I wrote a negative post about it. It is is insincere because poetry is about feelings. And no one who cares about the ordinary people of Iraq can have anything but feelings of joy today. Since this joy is visible in the eyes of ordinary Iraqis in town after town. Their ``Thank you, Mr. Bush``,
Thank you USA`` comes from their heart, as one can easily tell by looking at their faces.
Of course civilians have died. And young Iraqi and US and UK soldiers too. This joy is testimony to the fact that those deaths have meaning. They have given freedom and hope to 25 million long-suffering people. That is something to write poetry about. Not this political propoganda.
I wish Bina well, she is a fine writer. I hope (if she reads this) she will understand what I am trying to say, and see this not as idle criticism. In fact I hope she will consider writing another poem to celebrate this day of liberation and hope for the Iraqi people - and that this time she will put with her heart and soul in it.
In fact I like Bina`s articles generally. This one unfortunately does not ring true. It is clearly insincere, unfortunately, and that is why I wrote a negative post about it. It is is insincere because poetry is about feelings. And no one who cares about the ordinary people of Iraq can have anything but feelings of joy today. Since this joy is visible in the eyes of ordinary Iraqis in town after town. Their ``Thank you, Mr. Bush``,
Thank you USA`` comes from their heart, as one can easily tell by looking at their faces.
Of course civilians have died. And young Iraqi and US and UK soldiers too. This joy is testimony to the fact that those deaths have meaning. They have given freedom and hope to 25 million long-suffering people. That is something to write poetry about. Not this political propoganda.
I wish Bina well, she is a fine writer. I hope (if she reads this) she will understand what I am trying to say, and see this not as idle criticism. In fact I hope she will consider writing another poem to celebrate this day of liberation and hope for the Iraqi people - and that this time she will put with her heart and soul in it.
#10 Posted by tahmed32 on April 11, 2003 7:56:39 pm
Bhitai #7 I think the coalition has done something better than apologize. It has put things right. And paid with the blood of its soldiers. The Iraqis have forgiven the US for letting them down in 91 - they are saying ``Thank you, USA`` over and over again. And if the Iraqis have forgiven the US, I dont think there is much left for you or me to say, is there?
Nor is what Saddam did to them so small as to be OK with an apology. Saddam will pay with his life on this earth (and I hope in the next) for his cruelty for the sake of personal ego and luxury.
Nor is what Saddam did to them so small as to be OK with an apology. Saddam will pay with his life on this earth (and I hope in the next) for his cruelty for the sake of personal ego and luxury.
#9 Posted by hamidm2 on April 11, 2003 7:56:38 pm
...... and what about all the little puppies who end up in the dog pound and nobody takes them home and the vet comes to put them to sleep ....... where do they go? ...... they go to puppy heaven where god is a great big afghan hound who walks with a german shepard on his right and a poodle on his left; where dog biscuits grow in shrubs and fire hydrants are every where .......
......this type of utter self-serving feel-good nonsense serves no purpose........ poets are like tits on a bull - udderly usless ......
...........i don`t mean to be insensitve, but this was a noble and honorable war and the good far outweighs the collateral damage .......
......this type of utter self-serving feel-good nonsense serves no purpose........ poets are like tits on a bull - udderly usless ......
...........i don`t mean to be insensitve, but this was a noble and honorable war and the good far outweighs the collateral damage .......
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