In The Valley of Gods: A Personal Journey

Zahra, semipreciousme, ana:
Thanx.

dullabhatti: i haven`t been to APNA for a while so i didn`t know. i liked his poems as well. i`m sorry to hear that. my condolences to his family. was he here in the US?

Sameer, Noorie, others: Did you know MTM(Moizullah Tariq Malik), the poet on apna site died of cardiac arrest last week? I know sameer liked his poems. Was a very nice guy. Another reminder for us, death does not spare anyone.

mittarji:
it`s taken me a while to respond to this, but what a lovely travelogue you`ve shared with us--thank you! Having spent some time in Murree myself, i couldn`t help but think of it when you were describing the upper mall and the lower mall. It`s the only hill station i`ve visited in Pakistan, but i`ve wanted to visit Shimla for a long time, and from what you`ve described, i`d still like to. :-)

Nand Uncle,

This was a sweet write-up addressing many facets of your journey, i.e.

hich`kachahut, boakh`lahut,
exploration, observation,
food and the mood.

I did not get a chance to browse through your other piece yet, but ran into this one instead.

It`s a good habit to capture your travelogues vs. letting them sleep in the back of your mind.

Hope to read more of your exploratory journeys.

Probably, the next one should be on the Tulips Season in Canada with some pyari and colorful snaps.

....mittarsaab....sounds divine...maybe one day......

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#67 by m_souza on May 2, 2003 6:45am PT
#65 by rsridhar on May 1, 2003 9:47pm PT


I couldn`t agree with you both more. I`ve been to Shimla on a school excursion. I think I was a bit young and sort of took nature for granted to really appreciate the beauty of simla. Was too busy hanging out with friends, gossiping about girls (and guys) from other sections and shopping at the Mall area. I do remember this shabby DHABHA on the way to Simla, where I had one of the best Dal Makhni. However, I recently went to Kerala (Oct 2002), Kottayam to be more specific. Back waters, palm trees, fishermen...wanted to settle down there:)
Grwoing up in Delhi, I`ve never seen such hues of GREEN..from darkest of dark or lightest of light. Very soothing and cooling to the eyes. Except for water snakes, that really creeped the hell outta me, and few chipkalis (yuck..even writing chipkali makes me jittery)

#68 by stuka on May 2, 2003 12:57pm PT

Hi Stuka,

Allow me to explain something here from my perspective
Nobody takes veggetarianism to an EXTREME because being a brahmin they think they deserve to be special or ``EXCLUSIVE``
I think people grew up eating certain kinds of food, they are used to it and are actually quite happy with it and do not feel like they are missing a great deal in this world by not eating hamleem.

Some people gets turned off by certain smell, others are picky they way it is made (not just veggetarians).
I think there a itsy bity EXAGGERATION going on when you say ``If one is that paranoid about the effect of meat that they want the oil to be changed after frying one thing or the other, than they should stay home and cook for themselves.``

I am sure people with that kind of paranoia (this is again not restricted to simply veggetarian brahmins) probably do cook at home 99% of the time :)

PS:I am not a veggetarian

Satyavadi:

``I have seen you rant against Brahmins and vegetarians and vegetarians that insist that their food in five star hotels be vegetarian. And I might have missed some other groups here. ``

Okay. Nothing against vegetarians per se. I think their diet is healthier than a non veg diet. I was ranting about vegetarianism taken to an extreme especially when someone else is cooking your food in a commercial establishment.

If one is that paranoid about the effect of meat that they want the oil to be changed after frying one thing or the other, than they should stay home and cook for themselves. Or go to a place where meat is not served at all.

I wasn`t ranting against vegetarians but against extraordinary expectations from society.

Re Brahmins, i was ranting against Brahminical thought which lends itself to exclusivity.

#65 by rsridhar on May 1, 2003 9:47pm PT

I agree with u 100% as I have been to Kerela. Kerela is just unbelievably beautiful..no words to describe what I felt..surrounded by so many coconut and palm trees..different from my Punjab, where also we do have Chandigarh, a modern clean city...

National geographic traveler selects kerala as one of the 50 must see destinations of a life time.
With the arabian sea on the west, the western ghats towering 500 - 2700m on the east and Kerala is networked by forty four rivers. Kerala is a very easy place to simply sit back and enjoy. The name means ``land of coconuts. `` and the palms shade nearly the entire state from the tropical sun; many call the beach at kovalam the best in india, tranquil stretches of emerald backwaters, lush green hill stations and exotic wildlife, ayurvedic health resorts, enchanting art forms, magical festivals, historic and cultural monuments, an exotic cuisine… all of which offers a unique experience.

Kerala is one of the ten `Paradises Found` by the National Geographic Traveler, for its diverse geography and overwhelming greenery. It is a land much acclaimed for the contemporary nature of its cultural ethos, and much appreciated for the soothing, rejuvenating paradise that it is.

DON`T WORRY SAMEERJB, I am sure Murree is also beautiful, msut be if YOU go there

Shoaib Hashmi, writing in today`s Friday magazine:

``The thing is that compared to, say, the subcontinent, all of England is really a teeny miniature; where tiny streams pass for rivers and hillocks for mountains. And the highest of these is in Wales, but long ago the English went right ahead and named it Snowdon, and the area near it Snowdonia. Then they made the husband of the late Princess Margaret Lord of Snowdon; just as they have, for centuries, made the heir Prince of Wales.
And just about now there was a neat little fight going on with the Welsh insisting that these places revert to their original, Welsh names. These are Eryri, for Snowdonia, and Yr Wyddfa, for the mountain; the first means place of eagles, and the second I don`t know the meaning of!
The English have this habit, see. When they came here, they found 20 of the highest peaks, and they named the highest one Everest. This was after the surveyor who measured all the heights, and was very conscientous, but so bad tempered that no one bothered to challenge him. The thing is that the locals already had marvellous names for their mountains, like Kanchenjunga and Nanga Parbat, which are infinitely more intriguing than the new ones.
Also, if you are ever in Kathmandu, and it is a very clear morning, your host will come to you all excited to tell you that you can see six of the Himalayas, today. It is a way of talking of the mountains which is, at the same time, full of reverence and of affection which I find most enchanting.
On the other hand, they went and named a huge chunk of Africa Rhodesia, after Cecil Rhodes who they call an empire builder, but was really, well. . .They had a hard time getting the place back from Ian Smith and then giving it its name back. Just as they named two whole towns here after some Montgomery and some Lyall; and we hard a hard time reverting to Sahivaal, and Faisalabad. And there is a station in NY called Spuyten Duyvil, which must be Dutch because they have an affinity for the letter U.
Then on to your true Dubai, where the very airport is an icon and a byword for pleasure, which it was at three in the morning. There was this personable young man looking for a time out of the corners of his eyes, before coming over and saying, ``I say, you`re not some kind of writing type of person, at all, are you?`` I was, with the picture to show at the top, and always extremely gratified to find someone reads the stuff.
It was a doctor called Dheer; in fact, one of a pair because his wife too is a doctor and they shunt between Canada and Dubai. But the elder Mrs. Dheer, the doc`s mother, lives in Delhi, but was born in - wait for it - Lahore! What is more, said the doctor, she still pines for her hometown. Homecoming visits from our neighbours have always turned out moments of such pleasure that we immediately extended an invitation to the town, and the homestead for the lady, sight unseen.
And if the doctors get to read this, and send it to the lady in Delhi, perhaps they will also convey my sentiment, which is that the lady`s nostalgia for her birthplace, and the affection it evokes here, is of much greater consequence and substance than all our petty quarrels and all the silliness going on round us all over!``

re:#47 by sameerJB
Have you ever been to Kerala, also called ``God`s own country``. I visited Coachin many years ago with my Kerala friend and was bowled over by the natural beauty of the place.
Sridhar

#60
satyavadi - make hotel Rs 600/day.

#47 by sameerJB on May 1, 2003 12:16pm PT
``The way nature has laid out geography, I seriously believe that no mountainous area in India comes close to the natural beauty of Pakistani northern areas with Murree being the southernmost place on this string of majestic beauty stretching several hundred miles all the way to chinese border. ``

Haan haan..pakistan ke kya kehney..use to sab kuch virasat(arabic virsaa) me hi mila hai sadion se...khoobsoorat pahar...husn aur shabaab...aur liyaqat aur..zubaan...fair and handsome too.

India se to paksitan ne kuch nahin cheena(snatch)..India ne to usko kuch nahi diya...bas sirf TAXILA...sirf..INDUS CIVILIZATION..sirf EK ZAMEEN JO PEHLE INDIA THEE...aur RAAG...aur URDU(jo hindi ki beti hai)...aur sirf HIMACHALI PAHAR(including Murree)..aur HINDUKUSH....aur ek QUAID-E-AZAM(jisne india ka naam badal kar pakistan kar diya)..Jinnah jisko ab koi poochtaa nahi

Jinnah house fails to attract `suitable` bidders
Sunanda Kumar
London, April 30

The US-based Pakistani owner and his agent in London have been trying for a long time to find a suitable buyer for the three-storied building, near Olympia in Kensington, where the founder of Pakistan Mohammad Ali Jinnah used to live when he was studying law.

Failing to even persuade the Pakistani government to purchase the property, which has a blue plaque on the front saying Jinnah lived there from 1893 to 1896, they put it up for sale at an auction held at Café Royal on Regent Street, London. But, even then no one was willing to bid accept the ``guide price`` of £1.25 million.

The bid went up to £1.1 million only. Attempts by the auctioneer to describe the property as ``unusual`` and of ``historic value`` failed to woo bidders to stretch their budgets.

Khalid Hasan, the London representative of the owner, Asrar Ahmad, was visibly disappointed. ``I am extremely surprised that more people aren`t interested,`` he said, ``There is a gentleman by the name of R Mitra who had initially put in a bid of £1.2 million but he failed to show up.`` Hasan also expressed his surprise that the Pakistani-British elite in London had failed to show an interest in the property.

Although all attempts to sell it to the Pakistani Government have failed, Hasan said he believed he spotted a few representatives of the Pakistani High Commission at the auction. ``The Gandhi house which is a 10 minute walk away from Jinnah House has been bought by Congress, but I wonder why the Pakistani Government is not showing any interest.``

In protest against Islamabad`s disinterest in the property where Jinnah lived for three years, the Pakistani flag was pulled down from atop the building and was replaced by a black flag.

Hasan remains hopeful that the building will be sold soon. Apparently, an English couple is interested in the property but they have not quoted a final price yet. ``The couple don`t like typical houses made of plywood and are interested in the brick and cement structure of Jinnah House,`` Hasan said.

However, to them the house is not really ``Jinnah House`` but just an old-fashioned building. It has a total of 14 rooms on the ground and first floor and a basement.

At one time, the agent was interested in contacting Nusli Wadia in India to find out if he would like to buy the property.


WAISE..MURREE BHI TO PEHLE HINDUSTAN HI RAHA HOGAA...AUR HAAN..HINDUSTAN TO HAMESHA SE HI KHOOBSOORAT HAI..PARTITION SE PEHLE HO YA BAAD ME...

#41 by Urstruly on May 1, 2003 7:39am PT
``yaar why you people have to be so anal retentive all the time; can`t you take a joke.

Que sara sara guys ``

Aji kahan chal diye..

Joke ki baat to theek hai..hum samjhtey hian jokes ko...magar hume kaise pata ke wo joke tha..
apne kaha ke kuch der me hi shimla jo hai..wo paki govt ke under aa jayegaa...ye apke liye joke tha magar hum dar gaye..sach!!

apne bahut pehle kaha tha ke apko india ka ek hisa pakistan banana hai..to apne bana diya
ab aap bahut der se koshish me lagey hain ke india ka ek hisa kashmirhai, wo bhi india se judaa ho jaye. iske liye aapke train kiye log jee-jaan se lagey hain
punjab ko bhi aapne alag karne me punjabis ko uksaya aur unki help ki...unko gumrah kiya..ab bhi sunne me aya hai ke aapke yahan phir se poori koshish hai behkaane ki


to phir aap hi batao naa ke kya pata kab aap shimla ho harap kar uska naam `osama` rakh dein yaa phir..`salma`

satyavadi #50

``A typical honeymoon in Kulu Manali would cost about Rs 30000 -40000..
Which LOWER MIDDLE CLASS person can afford that much for a honeymoon? ``

Yaar, perhaps you have a very high standard of living. Let me give you lower middle cast estimate -
From Delhi Rs 1500 for two people return trip by bus. Hotel Rs 600 for 4 days. Food Rs 600 for 4 days. Local travel $2000 for four days. Utram-shutrum Rs2000. For a typical lower middle class, middle-middle class person marriage is perhaps peak of life (all downhill after that - Ain`t I correct Dostmitter. And people try to save for that occassion.
I write this because I have been through that path.

Harimou
Had a good laugh!
Thanks
Now I can get back to my Homeworks :(

Stude
Thanks for the clarification.
Do you have to know my mother tongue? I don`t want any to fall under any type of generalization.

Ref Studebaker #38

[And if Harimou doesnt stop it Balore or Hyderabad Air port may be named Tiou Sultan Intl. Air Port ;)) ]

You got my vote for Hyder Ali International Airport for Hyderabad and Tipu Sultan International Airport for Bangalore. Maybe then Lahore International Airport would be re-named Lala Lajpat Rai Airport!

Ref Stuka #43

[Indians have no clue on how to laugh at themselves. Anal retentiveness is a Brahminical trait.]

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Stop right there! What percentage of Indians are brahmins?

Also, if anal retentiveness were to be practiced widely, we wouldn`t have so much sh!t on our streets!

Ref Studebaker #38

[I love south Indians .I was reacting to Haramiou`s declaration of Urdu as Pakistans Language .]

I love you too. It is just that Urdu is Pakistan`s official language.

Ref Radhika #42

[Ok I am lil confused now. I was referring to Tipu`s comment
``You Sankriticised Southy do whatever you want south of Mumbai or Vindyas ........ ``
Not yours. I didn`t know you guys were the same. (R u?)]

Sigh......

Yes. And so is Ashok, Sadhna, Lajwanti, etc., etc., etc. Studebaker is affectionately known on Chowk as 12-Head but his nicknames have exceeded 12 and he is now known as Hydra.

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Stuka::

That was funny!!:)

My question was asked only half jokingly. I have seen you rant against Brahmins and vegetarians and vegetarians that insist that their food in five star hotels be vegetarian. And I might have missed some other groups here.

So what gives?
:)

Stude, dude, This is not going anywhere. I can see that :)

I don`t know how this conv to Tipu/Stude?? went from talking abt Sanskrit being root of all Indian lang including Hindi and South Indian Lang and (to some extent Urdu) to ``making Urdu as a national lang``

Anyway No I am not Harimau or mao or whatever

What is this bullcrap about honeymoons? aaye waDDay nawabzaaday. We had our tamboo erected in the village for the first week and half...and it was great fun. Everyone helped with food, making the bed, heating up the water for bath, washing the clothes discretely etc. Only problem is falling asleep during the day on bainT di kursi while waiting for lunch. one can hear cousins taunting in the background..achha achha baRhi neend aundi ay..chalo koi nai sauN lao dinay dinay(with the naughtiest vocal expressions).

Satyvadi:

``what do you have against everyone other than Punjabi Khatris?``

I am shocked!!! How can you say such a thing??

I have nothing against Punjabi Jatts either. Jats of Hharyana and UP are a different matter though. :)

Thank you Saminasha, harimou, sadna, banjaara and urstruly(partypooper!).
banjaara, there are two aspects to commercialisation. We all like the idyllic to remain idyllic and unspoilt but we also like the nicer roads, infrastructure and restaurants - not to speak of the jobs and economic prosperity that commercialisation brings alongwith it.
Re. Delhi, although I stayed there for a few weeks, the problems of logistics, my unwillingness to drive in the kamikazi driving culture of that city and the lack of interest among hosts in my kind of cultural activities prevented me from going to a lot of places that I wanted to go.

friend:
``Honymooners going to Manali/Nepal etc are normally from middle-class/lower middleclass. ``

A typical honeymoon in Kulu Manali would cost about Rs 30000 -40000..
Which LOWER MIDDLE CLASS person can afford that much for a honeymoon?

What is your definition of lower middle class in a country with per capita $400(Rs 20000)?

The ones that go to the Kulu Manali kinda places are UPPER MIDDLE CLASS or at best middle middle class..

The lower middle class goes to the municipal corporation garden in the city or the adjoinng city (Gandhinagar for Ahmedabad folks, it`s 25 kms from Ahd)

Stuka:
``On this post I support you. Indians have no clue on how to laugh at themselves. Anal retentiveness is a Brahminical trait.``

Dude, what do you have against everyone other than Punjabi Khatris?

dost-mitter
``A strange phenomenon we noticed in Shimla and especially Manali was the sight of several honeymooners roaming about in pairs. We couldn`t tell whether they had planned their honeymoons together or just made friends while there.``

Honymooners going to Manali/Nepal etc are normally from middle-class/lower middleclass. (Rich people these days go to Mauritius, Andaman, Europe etc). Most of them take package tours - on planes or buses that run from Delhi and other big cities. It is not difficult to make friends in a coach full of happy young couples. As most of the young couple in India are inexperienced in ???, they sometime exchange tips on you know what. And as Veeresh pointed out, it makes sense to share a cab or 4by4. You don`t get bored in long drives to Rohtang or Manikaran sahib and save lot of money. It aso ensures someone nearby to take your photographs in filmi pose.

dost-mittar:

HP is a state and Shimla the state capital whereas Murree is not even a district. The comparison is more from historical perspective. Both lie at the foothill of Himalayas - at the southern intersection of Asian and Indian plates and both were developed by British. Thererefore, a good school, great administrative buildings and business centered arould Mall road are common features instead of one mosque, one temple, two mausoliums and five pirs and 100 stray dogs, a common occurance before British arrival.

Having been to Murree umpteen times because of its closer proximity to Islamabad and never been to Shimla or Inda, I can`t compare both places. From watching Shimla in movies, it has some resemblance but as city it is more like Abbotabad than Murree. Frankly speaking, I ma not much impressed by Shimla as compared to Murree. Murree is more compact place with beautiful mix of colonial and traditional architecture laid out on pristine natural beauty. The roads are lines with huge pine trees and every turn of street is breath-taking beauty and awe. The language of Murree is Potohari and I feel at home there since I can speak that language. People are very friendly and easy going.

I am most impressed by Rajisthan and places like Jaipur, Jaiselmir in India. The way nature has laid out geography, I seriously believe that no mountainous area in India comes close to the natural beauty of Pakistani northern areas with Murree being the southernmost place on this string of majestic beauty stretching several hundred miles all the way to chinese border.

Fortunately Murree is well maintained too. The hotel, motels are clean and service is excellent. Having a cup of coffee with friends on any of a number of places on the Mall is as nostalgic an experience as possible. What is more soothing than getting away from the sweltering heat of summer in Islamabad and in an hour sipping a cup of tea or coffee at Mall in Muree with cool breeze hugging the body, soul and surroundings. For us Shimla is no Murree.

There are some magical qualities of the Potowar region as a whole. Even the berries bushes, stones and stream just behind Islamabad University at the foothill of Margala Hills offer a sample of view stretching all the way to northern territories.

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Urstruly:

On this post I support you. Indians have no clue on how to laugh at themselves. Anal retentiveness is a Brahminical trait.

dost-mittar
Good writeup, thanks. And do write about s.India :).

Since veeresh brought it up, well Mr Hamid Karzai went to Simla recently and here is part of what he said :

`` I come here not as President of Afghanistan but as a boy and student of Shimla,” he said to a thunderous applause from a select gathering. “I know more about Shimla than most of you here do. Name it and I will tell you,” he said, to another round of applause.

Karzai said when he first stepped out of the train in the month of July, “it was love at first sight. The drizzle that greeted my arrival…. I remember everything I ate in the smoke-filled tea shop listening to the lovely lyrics from the film Mausam. I remember every walk I had in the town and I must confess that I am fit today because of the walks”.

Walking down memory lane and even choking at times, the Afghan President said his years in Shimla taught him many things in life. “When I came here with my cousin I was only 18 years old. When I left, I was 22. They are years that can either make or break people. They are the formative years. For me, they were the making years. Years that taught me to be strong,” he said.`` ..``

#38 by Studebaker on April 30, 2003 9:16pm PT
Ok I am lil confused now. I was referring to Tipu`s comment
``You Sankriticised Southy do whatever you want south of Mumbai or Vindyas ........ ``
Not yours. I didn`t know you guys were the same. (R u?)

Rahi baath DOSA ki (it is DOSAI by the way)...nope I am terrible...My grandma is the best when it comes to dosa``I``. awww I miss her now!

And also Hari`s comment that ``URUDU IS PAKISTANI LANG`` is sort of true. The 130 Million Muslims that you were talking about don`t really speak ``URUDU``. It is a mix of Urudu and whatever regional language of that area. Very confusing and hard to understand.
By the way you should hear Tamil Muslims in Triplicane speaking....it is pretty funny if you can understand Tamil. I know I Digress

yaar why you people have to be so anal retentive all the time; can`t you take a joke.

Que sara sara guys

Lovely.

dost-mittar ji,
Very well written travelogue taking the reader along with you to all those interesting places.In Pakistan Muree is the most visited hill station which has fallen victim to commercialization and lost it uniqueness forever. Nearby is Nathiagalli, which has a decent ski run but less popular.The
real out -of- the- world experiences are at Chitral, Hunza and Nagar in the North and Ziarat in Baluchistan. Sadly, the infra structure at most of these hill stations is abysmal. There are some more places in the north of the Valley of Swat, which are hard to reach due to horrendous roads and lack of proper transport, hotels and restaurants.
Looking forward to the write-up on Delhi. Do mention about the Qawwali on the nau-chandi jumeraat at Nizamuddin Auliya. The ambience and the magic transports you to the India of the Sultanate period, or was it my imagination gone haywire?

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urstruly # 32, once again, you hit the spot. As a matter of simple fact, many of the governments in exile or their representatives currently present in India tend to hover around in Himachal. Factions from Afghanistan and neighbouring Central Asian territories, Tibet, Burma, Chittagong Hill Tracks, Gurkhas, Kurdistan, Polissaaro, PLO, even some Armenian and Assyrian types. For a while there were some Maoris and Australian aborigines too. The Irish have been present for over a century.

So if a Pakistani Gormint in exile wants to set up in Shimla, I am sure they will be welcome. The only visa regulations, then, would be the ones that help keep our visitors alive.

Boss, beat us a new shtick sometime atleast? Try??

#32 by Urstruly on April 30, 2003 12:26pm PT

``Nicely written travelogue - the Mall scene resembles quite like our Murree Hills and Nathiagali etc. I suggest that all Indians should take authors route and visit Shimla etc. while they can, because pretty soon there are gonna be pretty strict visa regulations imposed on foreign visitors by Government of Pakistan in that area``

Wet dreams!!
O mughalo..abhi tumhari tabahion me kuch kasar baki hai kya? abhi dil bhara nahi desh ka batwara karke..abhi kasar baki hai jo tum..hindustan ko, bharat ko ab pakistan banana chahtey ho...pehle hi ek hisa cheen kar le gaye jo ab baaki ke india par buri nazar daltey ho..sharam karo..

baki india ke hazaron mandir to tabah kar diye ...ab kya himachal ke paharon par jaa kar wahan ke bache-khuche mandir bhi tabah karne hain..??

And yes, this is the reason Indian Govt was not at all ready for `dialogue`, because the basic paki mentality is still like that of Ghauris and ghaznavis..

Zafar:
So, you went to Manali on a mission like dullabhatti`s friends?
You are right about the peaks we saw from Kufri. And there were more, too.
Re. Niazamuddin, I will write a piece only if you coauthor. I have to be careful about what I write after being unmasked by some unnamed people.:-)

Veeresh:
Thanks for all the value-added info. No, I did not eat at Bhuntar. For my meal stops, I had to depend upon my hired driver who, no doubt, stopped at places where he had made prior ``arrangements``.
We had to stop a long way before the trijunction on the road to Rohtang Pass because of the road closure due to snow.

Ref dost-mittar #31

[Ansari:
Thanks. As for your querry, those who did go to honeymoon a generation ago did know what it was all about....!!]

Well, you could have included the joke about how a sardarji found out what a honeymoon meant several years after he was married and so went up to his wife and told her to pack so that they could get going on the honeymoon. The poor wife, having her hands full with housework and children, told him, ``Can`t you see I am busy? Take your Mom if you want to go someplace!``

[harimou:
What you say makes sense. And now, I am afraid to write anything on South India.]

Oh, go ahead and write. I will just put in gentle corrections when I feel like!

[BTW does Arunachal mean immovable sun.]

Literally, yes; idiomatically, Mountain of the Sun. Appropriate since, being the easternmost state and mountaionous, the sun would rise there first in India. `Achal` (immovable) is the opposite of `chal` (movable) (derived from `chalana` - movement) but almost always used to mean `mountain`. The Vindhya mountains are referred to as `Vindhyachal`. Place names in the South such as Vriddhachalam (Vriddha + Achala = Old Mountain) exist and Tirupathi where Lord Balaji (Venkateswara) has a temple gives rise to names such as Venkatachalam and Lord Balaji Himself is referred to as `Venkatachala-pathy`.

Ansari:
Thanks. As for your querry, those who did go to honeymoon a generation ago did know what it was all about....!!

harimou:
What you say makes sense. And now, I am afraid to write anything on South India. BTW does Arunachal mean immovable sun.

ajeet:
If Pinjor garden is the one near Chandigarh, I have visited it earlier. And, yes, it is very beautiful.
No, Kashmir is on my list for the next visit, Inshallah and inshajihadis!
And thanks to you, dullabhatti and Veeresh for added information re. Scandal Point. The incident involving the Maharaja of Patiala may or may not be true, but it makes for a colourful story about a colourful character.

Ras:
Thanks. It is known for Simla Accord only to the political/historical junkies. To most Indians, it is still a place to go for a holiday.

septran:
Yes, I too was thinking of Kashmir when in Himachal. The aerial distance is not that much.

nazarhayatkhan:
Thanks for your comments. India started late on name-changing but is catching up fast - Mumbai, Kolkutta, Chenai....

Nicely written travelogue - the Mall scene resembles quite like our Murree Hills and Nathiagali etc. I suggest that all Indians should take authors route and visit Shimla etc. while they can, because pretty soon there are gonna be pretty strict visa regulations imposed on foreign visitors by Government of Pakistan in that area.

Dear Farzana:
Am glad you will be visiting Dharamshala soon. Try to take in Shimla/Manali too. Don`t miss the Tibetan cultural museum and a replica of a Tibetan monastry near Dharamshala (not McLeod Ganj!). And when you are doing the parikrama at the Bodhi temple in McLeod Ganj, you will see a number of large drums with thousands of mantras inscribed on them; you get the same `laabh` by a single rotation of the drum as you would do by reciting all the mantras on them. What a time-saving device! Who says buddhists are not hindus?
As for a piece on Mumbai,
Yahaan aur bhi hain mujh se zyaada Mumbai ki galiyaan ghoomane vale
Mujh se behtar kehne vale, mujh se achha likhane vale
(with apologies to Sahir!)
But here is a little incident from my Mumbai visit. My host and I had to go to the Victoria Terminus station (renamed Chhatrapatti Shivaji like everything else in your city!) to change my railway bookings. We had great difficulty finding a parking spot but finally found one near the Subway restaurant. We entered railway station through one gate and came out from another and all streets looked alike not only to me but also to my host from Navi Mumbai. We asked everyone where Subway was but no one knew. I finally had an idea that worked. We asked someone we should have asked in the first place, McDonald`s. They certainly did know.

Oh that is a good theory about why temples survived in hills! Muslims and Christians were smart, they would put their religious centres downtown and soon control trade. Us Hindus, on the other hand would make it difficult for ourselves and position them in far away natural features, the more difficult the better.

BTW, your rating just climbed to a ``3``.

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Mittarjee,

``The kind who go to hill stations for honeymoon now did not know what honeymoon meant a generation ago.``

So what did it mean to go on honeymoon a generation ago? ;)

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#3 by sameerJB

Sameer

``second is the proliferation of temples. It means Himachal Pardesh is going to remain backward state for longer time than others. ``

LARGE Nos of temples = Backward State?
what kind of Rationalization is that.
That is what makes a place like Himachal culturaly, historically and architecturally rich. You should see some of the details temples in India have.


#12 by Tipu on April 29, 2003 7:59pm PT

Tipu
Hi There.
do You have something against south indians :)

you are forgetting that the root of hindi (and may be even URUDU) is sanskrit!

Thank you everyone for your positive comments. [How come I still get a puny 2-star rating?:-)]
Studebaker:
Yes, Majrooh did a better job for literacy with ``alaf zabar aa, alaf zer ay, alaf pesh au`` than with his ``c-a-t cat, cat maane billi``.

dullabhatti:
Yes, there were certainly some couples in that category. But most of them were genuine with tell-tale signs of laal choorhas and all that.
As for my trying ``ghota``, I make it a point not to drink anything unless the water used in it was guaranteed to have been boiled for five minutes at least.:-)

SameerJB:
Is Murry the only hill station in Pakistan? Does it have snow? How about its Mall?
As regards to why do people in our part of the world go to higher altitudes for honeymoon, I am not sure but I think that until recently, hill stations were the only places where people went for holidays to escape the summer heat, other than visiting relatives. So, these places had the aura of the exotic and special places around them. This is no longer the case. Now, only those on economy budget go to hill stations for honeymoons and even for special holidays; those who can -and more and more do- prefer to go to Mauritiaus, Singapore, Bangkok, London, etc. The kind who go to hill stations for honeymoon now did not know what honeymoon meant a generation ago.
The large number of temples does not necessarily mean that people are more religious; it could just mean that you-know-who did not get there to demolish the old temples. Himachal is actually doing very well after the trifurcation of Panjab, thanks in large measure to the enterprising Panjabis living in their midst. Literacy rates have shot up and horticulture and tourism have really taken off.

temporal:
Thanks. My next one will be probably on politics!

More later.
temporal:

The other Valley of God at:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2986625.stm

Ras

Stuka, momos and chang at TibDhab area under ISBT clover leaf confusing flyover, one wrong turn and you reach Seelampur where you get half-way decent Bangladeshi kababs from thelas.

Dariba has momos and chang now?

After your 12th Board at Chail. Hmmm . . . I remember some youngsters dancing to Didi Didi that Arab song to stay warm in the cold, this would be October`93. Wazzat you? Thanks for helping push start our frozen Gypsy. If it is any consolation, a few hours after that I drove off the mountain and 300 metres down into a gorge,we survived only because the roll cage was tough.

A great travelogue by dost-mittar here.

Strange to think that the place is now best known for the

``Shimla Accord`` which neither side actually takes seriously anymore.

Ras

Hello Farzana, what there is to write about Mumbai, behn? I telling about Bombay no boom-a-boom. All pao-vada maska bun ragda pattice men. One time pass Gateway one time pass Juhu. Hungry having one snack, more hungry having two snakes. Fail film star all making eating shop Linking Road 300 rupees thin soup of salt water with bread hard outside soft inside.

Ending story no want sound Ahmed Madani, where is he?

Zzafar: You still get Momos and cheap Chang. Uss ke liyey u don`t have to go to Manali. Good old Dariba Kalan in Delhi has it.

I went to Simla after my class 12 Board exams with a bunch of friends who were basically Kanjars and spent all their time trying to hook up with local Tibetan women. We almost got beaten up in the Tibetan market after a friend asked a Tibeti if ``Seeta and Geeta`` are available. The guys seem to be like Dulla Bhatti`s friends. :)

I then decided to leave my kanjar friends and went of exploring on my own. Chail was very nice as well.

Great article sirji, just great. Thanks for reviving some of my memories, mis-spent youth spent pelting up and down those mountains.

a) On honey-mooners in pairs/groups, often it is about unmarried couples managing to get away, the girls would be allowed out only with ``sakhee``. Also, 4 travel cheaper than 2 when hiring cars etcetc.

b) For the full Maharaja of Patiala story, visit Chail. There was a time in history, say around the `70s or so, when every second pretty Sikh girl you met would claim to be a direct descendant. Probably were, too.

c) Scandal Point had more to do with the ladies of the Raj coming up in the summers with the mai-baap sarkar. Some of the said ladies of the sarkar being stuck in salubrious climes with husbands down in the plains made for a few scandals. If you ask around in Lakad Bazaar you will still get some amazing wood painting work depicting the artist`s impression of how the gora ladies and sahib enjoyed themselves, dehab mainly.

d) Did you have the sakar paranthas at Bhuntar, on the road drive from Shimla to Manali? Next time, you must!

e) The road from Manali to Rohtang Pass leads to a junction after you cross and come down. Turn left for the LOC, turn right for China. You can even do the full loop, and discover for yourself how these mountains came out of the oceans, and how political borders lose meaning as you meander along.

f) The Kalka-Shimla mountain narrow gauge railway is full of amazing facts. One of the many ``strange but true`` has to do with a tunnel built, I think near Barog, where the alignment got mis-matched. So they used the uphill end as a reservoir and started all over again. The Scottish engineers who built the alignment for the Cart Road (now unused), Kalka-Shimla highway and Railway apparently used local mystics who guided them about the best alignments. Till the `50s and `60s even the Swiss would visit this stretch to learn. Now we go there?

Farzana..I saw one of your snaps in some feature article in one of Indian newspapers..Outlook or some other I don`t remember.....you look very nice and graceful indeed...

Beautiful article Dost-Mittarji - reminded me graphically of the times I had gone to Kulu-Manali (no, no honeymoons, sorry). At that time Manali had this huge Tibetan temple in the middle, and the bazaar was run by Tibetans (you could feast on momos and...I admit...cheap chang). Zamana badal gaya, I guess. Btw, the snow peaks you would have seen in the Western Himalayas would have included Nanda Devi, Trishul, Hemkunt, Nanga Parbat...which is why the whole area is called the Devbhumi. I am looking forward to reading about your visit to Bombay (and to Nizamuddin).

All the best,

Zafar

dost-mittarji:
Chalo...since I have not been to these places, at least umdaa jhalak tau mil gayee... hope to visit Dharamshala soon though...

Aur haan...don`t tell me Mumbai is not worth a piece :)

Regards,
Farzana

Ref 12-Head #12

[North is still Hindi /urdu]

Nope. Pakistan is Urdu. North is Hindi, as in something like `smoke-spewing cart` for `train`.

[Hima= Snow
Aanchal = dupatta as in Chor do aanchal zamana kya kahega]

That would make it `Himanchal` not `Himachal`. Note that there is a new state called `Uttaranchal` so use your `aanchal` there.

[Now go watch Tamil movie of Simran ,Soundarya and Shakeela all fake names borrowed from NORTH]

Simran herself is borrowed from Punjab, not just her name. Shakeela, one would think, is borrowed from one of the -stans.

Dost-mitter

I like the way you bring out India`s colours, culture, history and geography interwoven into an enjoyable text.

Hill stations, cantonements, Malls, railway stations (with easy chairs where the hands further fold out), Dak Bungalows and the Company Baghs which the British left have the same flavour in Pakistan.

But in Pakistan, we have done considerable damage by destroying the statues of the British Nobilities and renaming the old historical names.

I wish we go back to the old names and restore the old buildings as they were. My guess is that India has done better in this regard.

Thanks again for taking me through a joyful trip through India.

really enjoyable writing.you must go to kashmir.pehalguam is really worth seeing.in srignar,we went there for honeymoonin in 1975.the night inthe house boat with ``kawal`` floating inthe water,with sceni beauty all around.its is still in my mind.i dont know what had happen by now.
i wish i would go there again.

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#9 by dullabhatti

I think you may be right. He probably over awed her by his wealth. As far as the number 365, I remember people said he had a wife for every day of the year. In fact he wanted every pretty face that he laid his eyes and if every thing else failed he offered to marry them and make them his queens. Usually the infatuation lasted a few days and he would set them up in a house(palace??) with some income and would never see them again.

I haven`t been to that part of the country for long time. I visited Pinjore and Shimla when I was a nutty teenager, along with an equally nutty cousin on a two wheeler scooter.

#3 by sameerJB on April 29, 2003 12:41pm PT

``It means Himachal Pardesh is going to remain backward state for longer time than others. ``

Yeah ..but still much better than mullah Pakistan..the whole of which is full of madrasas and its religious fanatics.
you jealous sameer??

Ajeet, I read some where that the white woman in the said scandal was daughter of some high level British official and she willfully ran away with him. The guy was a sex maniac..what did he do with 365 women(I heard it was 360 but hey throwing another 5 won`t hurt the guy...panj hoar naal oh mar nai challeya)? [question is rhetorical I don`t even want to think about it...makes me feel dizzy..not enough blood to circulate in my vains.:-)]

The Pinjor garden is beautiful too. I don`t know about now but it used to be very well maintained when I visited few times in 80`s.

[Himachal (Him+Aanchal) literally means a dupatta or cover of snow, alluding to the snow-capped mountains of this state.]

Why use the word `aanchal` when `achal` (immovable) means `mountain` and `himachal` directly translates to `snow covered mountain`?

Miter ji,

Very nice write up. Brought back some nice memories of Shimla and its famous Chuchu train. You did not drive there so you must have missed the famous Mogal Garderns of Pinjor. They are right at the foot hills, on the road to Shimla.

`I was curious to know how the place got its name. I was told by a “reliable source” (my driver) that during the British period, the Maharaja of Patiala......,`

To add to the story, this was the infamous Maharaja of Patiala, Bhupender Singh, the one with 365 ranis. There are lot of stories attributed to him, each more scandulous than the other. Also after the incident that you mention, he was forbade by the British government, from setting foot in Shimla, so he build a palace at chail which if I remember it right is about 20 miles from there.

I guess you did not go to Kashmir, which is a shame. My wife and I spent our honeymoon there. The place I liked most was pehalgaum and yes there was a punjabi dhaba and hotel there. I can still taste those `aloo de pranthe` and huge glasses of lassi.

Dost ji, my friend tells me that the presence of too many honeymooners in the hills is very misleading. According to him many of them are lovers, classmates, neighbours and cousins eloping for few days away from the prying eyes of their families and neighbours down in the plains. This is a very kanjar type friend so I believe he might be correct in this case.:)

Very nice. . .thank you for sharing, mittar-jee!

We do have smaller version of Shimla in Pakistan - Murree. Murree Hills have same character as you described about Shimla. Two quick points.

Why do people in our part of the world go to higher altitudes for honeymoon? The air is thin and one gets tired more quickly just as water starts boiling at lower temperatures - incomplete cooking. second is the proliferation of temples. It means Himachal Pardesh is going to remain backward state for longer time than others.

dost:

very enjoyable...keep up...we need more...:)

rgds,

t

Dost ji sounds like you had loads of fun. I have been only to Shimla few times and to Kufri once in summer. It is very beautiful region and people are very nice too.

so did you try the Ghotta too? Should have.

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