A Challenge to My Co-religionists

Re: ZafarA`s 110 post

Not only would ``we`` rather talk about Palestine and Kashmir than equity between Muslim genders, but when the occasion of the two dovetailing-i.e. forced burqa`ing in Kashmir to support Islamic Kashmiri secession ideology, the conversation breaks down to non response or denial. This is completely intentional, and for once, I`d like a straightfoward response on why Kashmiri Muslim woman who do NOT want to wear hijab as a symbolic act of fundo protest are being forced to with punishment of acid attack. Where in the Q`uran is this written? And where in the Q`uran is it written that debate of female equity is the intellectual domain of male Muslims?

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Reply His Excellency #83

``It is very convenient & hypocritical for non-Muslims and Muslim liberals to blame Islamic fundamentalists and radicals for the terrorism and a likely clash of civilizations. What have the non-Muslims done to address the general feelings of discontent and powerlessness in the Muslim world??``

Mian, what have Muslims (of any stripe) done to address not the general FEELINGS but the CAUSES of discontent and powerlessness in the Muslim world?

To be honest, most Muslims are oppressed by other Muslims (the poor by the rich, the veiled gender by the unveiled...). Pretending otherwise is letting ourselves off the hook - if Palestinians gained independence tomorrow wouldn`t most of the ummah remain in the sorry state it is today?

So ask yourself, why is it that people prefer to talk and think about Palestine instead of equal rights for Muslim women?

This arguement of Islamic fundamentalism as a reaction to the corruption and ineptness of secular elite is phony. Islamists origin goes way back. There were Islamists even in the courts of Tughlaqs, Sadat, Lodhis and Mughals. The Islamists gain power in the last 50 years due to coldwar politics of being fiercely anti-socialist. They were actually backed by Saudis with the approval of US. Three rganizations, Jamaat-e-Islami, Nahdat-ul-Ulema in Indonesia and Ikhwan-ul-Muslimoon in Arab world were backed by Saudis and USA.

In Pakistan, Maudoodi and JI were active against Qadyanis and family planning as back as early fifties of last century. I was part of JI during late seventies and early eighties and have firsthand knowledge of their stand and agenda. They as well as other deobandi, barelvi and later wahabi organizations all made past, particularly early Muslims as model for Muslim society. The JI believed in amir-ul-momineen, bait-ul-maal, zakat and pan-Islamism in international trade and politics. Rest of the Islamists were even less sophistcated than JI cadre. It was/ is Islam, obeying and pleasing God and avoiding disobeying God in their own interpretation that has been determining their agenda and actions. The corruption, hypocrisy and failure of secular elite has helped them in improving their support in masses to some extent. Hamidm is right on money in most of his posts. One single world that describes islamic fundamentalism best is retrogressive vis-a-vis modern world and open society. The open society or liberal society is the biggest oxymoron from their perspective.

The failure of secular elite in power has hurt Pakistan internally but Islamic fundamentalism even without in power hurts both domestically and internationally. Its effects in power are devastating because their sole objective is to defeat - to defeat unislamic enemies, unislmaic moral values, unislamic banking system, unislamic penal code, unislamic international trade, unislamic education, unislamic freedom of thought, unislamic emancipation of women, unislamic entertainment and so on. The obsession with defeating is self defeating and nothing more. It ends up laying waste to whatever standing in already under pressure civil societies.

The acceptance of Islam was a matter of convenience for us to begin with. We had distinct cultures and part of a local civilization. It has done just one good thing in its 1000 year existance in subcontinant and that is diluting or eliminating caste system. It defeated caste system and not the deep philosophical thoughts of subcontinent now known as Hindusim. It was the weakness of caste system alngwith matters of convenience under Islamic invaders rule and not some stupidly believed strength of Islam in all matters of life. That is where Islam limitations for us Panjabis, Sindhis, Balochis, Mohajirs and Pashtun begin and end. Rest is hogwash. The essence of Islam and later Sikhism is casteless society and start and stop concentrating at that one point. Why should we throw away millenia of cultural and philosophical heritage just because one stupid caste system. Should we throw away the military because of Musharraf or Zia? Should we get rid of procreation because some children end up nothing but trouble? No, we should not throw away what is ours including what we define as deep philosophical thoughts of Indian civilization. That is our heritage.

HisExcellency #various
I was not speaking of US and Israel here, I was speaking of India and Pakistan.

``Nobody is blaming every non-Muslim or every Muslim for this problem. The common Pakistani has no clash of civilizations with the common Indian. ``

Well, if not common Indians, are you saying its the Indian government which is responsible for embezzlement of funds and corruption by members of the Pakistani army, bureacracy and politicians, or is the Indian government responsible for the influence of feudals, or the proliferation of madrassas or the blasphemy law? Is the Indian government supposed to write Pakistan`s constitution, formulate policy, balance the budget, impose land reforms, hold fair elections and run law and order in Pakistan? You can`t be serious.

``Could Hosni Mubarik, General Ayub Khan, Zia-ul-Haq and Pervez Musharraf survive as rulers of Egypt/Pakistan without American assistance. ``

They wouldnot have, but there have always been groups in Pakistan which have courted the interference of the West.

And I remember very well, when Musharraf first took over and the West shunned him, there were endless arguments presented both on chowk and in the Pakistani English press about how the West is trying to impose alien concepts like Westminister democracy on the population of Pakistan which is not ready for democracy. Literacy rates and poverty rates were copiously quoted to show how the democratic process was unworkable in Pakistan and the US and the Commonwealth are way off in not accepting the awam`s support of the coup.


Now that Musharraf is legitimised by the West, thats a problem too?

I am not saying what the US has done/is doing is right. But even now, the typical argument made even by the celebrated `liberal` Najam Sethi is, if the US and international institutions donot prop up Musharraf, the fundos will take over. There are orchestrated rallies to show just how precarious is Musharraf`s position.

Apparently, responsibility of resisting fundamentalists in Pakistan is the US`s or India`s, who must pay off Ivy League educated Pakistani elite who very profitably bemoan their victimhood, justify the extremism and point out how the real problem is how much the US and India fall short of their own ideals.

Excellency Sahib,

No, I`m sorry, but violence as the only answer does not cut it. We HAVE a choice and no excuse making, rationalization, finger pointing, etc. is going to magically absolve us from it.

WE are tired of cleaning up your messes. WE are tired of trying to protect your rights when all you and your ilk do the next minute is run back out with more nonsense. WE would like to coexist peacefully in the world with Palestine, Israel, Kashmir, Pakistan, India, and falana and dimka as well. WE know that YOUR way has made things worse.

Your peeps have problems with progressives, liberals, and non Muslims? Lets see y`all access legal services, alt. media, NGOS, coalition groups globally without us...please-by all means-see what you can get accomplished.

In the meantime, try to conduct yourselves with some intellectual and spritual dignity, okay?

hisexcellency:

i agree that fundamentalists are not responsible for the current crisis. pakis on this site are simply displaying their class bias when they criticize fundamentalist while ignoring damage done by elites that are mistakenly perceived to be secular by awam. the number of people killed by fundamentalists is tiny compared to lives that could have been saved had the elites instead of stealing from the national kitty, used national resources to provide basic necessities like clean drinking, an efficient healthcare system etc.

moral bankruptcy displayed by elites however does not justify course of action adapted by groups such as jamaat islami and the shia clerics in iran. leaders of these groups are simply exploiting genuine grievances of awam to establish their hold on power. to pretend that these groups are acting to bring democracy is to ignore history. jamaat had no qualms about being in bed with zia and jamaat eagerly accepted isi`s cash to fund their electoral campaigns. and iranians clerics even lockup other clerics who happen to disagree with them. it is extremely important for people who want to see genuine change in muslim societies to adapt a strategy that enables them to confront without alienating the awam, the threat posed by hard line religious groups. otherwise their fate will be no different from the fate of moderate elements that played a critical role in bringing about the russian or the iranian revolution.

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re: #89 sadna

Nobody is blaming every non-Muslim or every Muslim for this problem. The common Pakistani has no clash of civilizations with the common Indian. Common Israelis and Palestinians also fraternize with each other in schools and social clubs.

But that doesn`t mean that there is no problem. Group psychology is always different from individual psychology. A war-mongering government and jingoistic media are the greatest determinants of group psychology.

Changing the perceptions of individuals will never help. (Okay perhaps it will, but we cannot wait a 100 years for that to bear fruit). Changing oppressive government policies, ruthless political agendas and media prejudices is the fastest way to build bridges across nations and cultures.

I am not denying that Madrassas are polluting young Muslims minds with anti-Hindu, anti-Christian and anti-Semitic messages. Hindu, Christian and Israeli media are propagating the same anti-Muslim messages by calling every devout Muslim or freedom fighter a terrorist.

When 9/11 happened, FoxNews and CNN showed Israeli mourning but (perhaps deliberately) filmed Palestinians dancing in one of the poorest neighbourhoods of Nablus. Why did the US media not show the shock and pro-US sympathies of vast majority of Palestinians and Muslims?? Because it wanted to manipulate these images and paint Palestinians as terrorists/terrorist collaborators. Because it wanted to distort the image of a religion practised by 1 billion people, just because 19 hijackers attacked America.

But when Israeli Defence Forces killed dozens of Palestinians during the seige of Jenin, where was the American media. There were no live pictures. No impartial interviews. Instead of lambasting Israel, the media was offering explanations and rationalizations for Israeli killings.

Showing Iraqi POWs walking in single file on CNN is okay but showing American POWs on Al-Jazeera is immoral?? Giving TV coverage to Rumsfield, Cheney, Wolfowitz and Bush is patriotic.. but playing unedited interviews of Osama, Saddam and Prince Abdullah are unethical??

ONLY Madrassas should not be reformed.
Non-Muslim media also needs to be reformed.

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re: #85 by zeemax

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In any event, now that Vajpai and the Pakistani PM (now Jamali) are on a mutual flirtation course again, let the process continue. I wish there would be a thaw on Chowk as well between the Indian/Pakistani interactors. After all, some of us may even be opinion leaders in our respective countries.
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I am in absolute agreement with you. The rhetoric karate will lead us nowhere. It is time to sit down over chai and talk like pragmatic and sensitive human beings. There is hurt, suspicion and anger on both sides. We should build bridges and stop atrocities. Time will slowly heal the hurt and anger. I am announcing a unilateral ceasefire :)

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There`s a wonderful book by Dilip Hiro (who writes for the Guardian) the title of which escapes me where he outlines the different ideological strands within islam - from socialism to capitalism to something that claims to be totally islamic. Similarly, in the socio-political realm, he also mentions schools of thought ranging from modern liberalism to arcane fundamentalism. He captured all this mainly in and around iran immediately before and after the islamic revolution there. Such a diversity may now be found only in an even smaller geographical area - malaysia, indonesia (until recently any way) and to a smaller extent in pakistan.
Fundamentalism has won out as a uniquely islamic response to the dominance of alien power and what is perceived as alien ideology. Interestingly, the region under the greatest turmoil and under the military onslaught of another religious fundamentalist power, namely palestine, seems to be relatively free of religious fundamentalism. The dominant political forces there are still relatively secular although it might not stay so for long.
Despite this solitary exception, I`d still agree with those who claim that islamic fundamentalism is a reaction to western hegemony..