A Challenge to My Co-religionists

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(Apologise for a long reply)

Rasheed:

As a non-practising and non-believing but cultural Muslim, I feel the problem facing us today is to a large extent of our own making.

---with this bold disclaimer why would you assume believing muslims would enter into any dialogue here?

******

For religious fundamentalism you identified these three factors: a) a return of the sacred; b) a retreat from modernity; and c) a nostalgic search for narrow ethnic identities in a over-centralized modern world.

---imho, the most important factor would be a yearning to live/exist with honour and dignity…on a broader canvas this would translate to freedom, social and egalitarian justice, opportunities to live and progress…which in turn would inculcate tolerance for others…

what gives? what impedes this path? the single biggest obstacle the muslims face world wide is their own governments…a hotch potrch of kings, dictators, autocrats…and almost universally the opposition to them is provided by the religion based parties…who mobilize the populace with what else…talk of an past era…a mythical golden period…
..and the muslim population of those countries imbued with lack of vision, education and alternatives and suppressed by their governments is sucked in to their gullible propaganda…

…the main culprit is not the pseudo mullah and religious parties…it is the educated and semi educated…you and me...who have abandoned the turf to these parties…instead of challenging they/we withdraw…thus by default the religious coalition gains strength…

…instead of focusing on the three social consequences you outlined in the end…perhaps it would be better to ask the young muslims to ponder over where the start went haywire…the message brought by Muhammed, pbuh, and Qur’an as start-off point that would have propelled muslims to greater heights...remember, i used the words ... has instead been used to push them to the darker past?...

...we, the (relatively) educated are to be blamed more than the jahil mullahs...

rgds,

t


…more later,

Very crisp and well-written.

The Islamic fundamentalists today deny women and minorities the rights that they enjoyed in the ``Golden Era`` of Islam. The Prophet`s first wife Khadija was businesswoman. After her death, he married Ayesha who later became a jurist and prominent leader during the Caliphates of Usman and Ali.

Akbar S. Ahmed elucidates this in his book, Pakistan Society. He outlines three flavours of Islam, each with distinct characteristics:

1) Orthodox Islam

Wahhabi and Deobandi schools are the vanguards of orthodox Islam. According to this school of thought, revelation (Quran) is only path to truth. The word of Quran must be interpreted and implemented literally. Only the clergy are allowed to interpret the Quran. Instead of applying reason to religious edicts, the masses are expected to repose their (blind) trust in the clergy`s informed opinion.

Mahmud Ghaznavi, Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb, President Zia-ul-Haq, Maulana Maudoodi, Fazlur Rehman, Mullah Umar and Hafiz Saeed reflect the mindset of orthodox school. In this school of thought, personal character and religious credentials are the sole criteria for a good ruler.

Moreover, all forms of modernity (democracy, free speech, minority rights, womens rights, media) are either considered western conspiracies or social disruptions.

2) Syncretic, Mystic Islam

This is the decentralized version of Islam. Sufis, saints, pirs and sayeen babas replace Mullahs as the mentors of society. Introspection and mysticism replace revelation as source of knowledge. The boundaries of religion get blurred as opinions of saints encroach upon the Mullah`s territory.

Madho Lal Hussain, Lal Shahbaz Qalandar, Nizamuddin Auliya, Sachal Sarmast, Emperor Akbar, Dara Shikoh and Zulfikar Ali Bhutto championed this school in subcontinent.

Although this school of thought is ideal for cultural and religious amalgamation, it suffers from several flaws. By applying mystic, pantheistic notions to every aspect of life... this school dilutes the message of Allah and replaces it with that of the local sufi or saint. Instead of interpreting God, the sufi ended up replacing Him. This leads to perversions in the religion itself.

3) Modern Islam

The third strand of Islam is a relatively recent one. This school seeks a marriage between modernity. Instead of shunning Islam for modernity (or vice versa), it seeks to selectively weld the two together.

In other words, instead of opting for Western-style modernity, this school attempts to adapt modernity to suit Muslim culture. Dance clubs, sexual promiscuity, casinos, skirts, bikinis, pubs, beauty pageants and homosexuality are still frowned upon. But democracy, free press, open media, religious tolerance and secular government are sought.

The modern school of Islam emphasizes the spirit/rationale of religion, not its form or outward trappings. Instead of rituals and orthodox ideas, the religion is interpreted in modern context.

Unfortunately, the modern school of thought lacks economic muscle and political powerbase. The Arab world is dominated by Wahhabi school that has petrodollars at its disposal. These petrodollars are used to finance Wahhabi Madrassahs across the Muslim world.

Perhaps a democratic Turkey or Iraq could pave the way for Muslim modernists in Pakistan, Iran, Algeria, Saudi Arabia and Nigeria.

[Akbar Ahmed does not include cultural Muslims in these 3 schools. Essentially, this is the group that has decided to jettison Islam and adopt modernity in its unadulterated forms. ]

An excellent summary of the ailments of belief based actions both out of desire to pleasing god and fear of disobeying god. The mindset trapped in the Esher`s triangle of god, belief system and examples of early practices makes all actions bound within this revolving triangle. One has to step outside the triangle to break free of geometry of Esher`s triangle.

The biggest step in this direction must be absolute stop on the out of hand suspicion, rejection, degradation and detesting of non-Muslims achievement in all areas of knowledge of past and present. This is necessary because in a world full of supporting materials for often contradicting philosophies, ideas and knowledge, the drawbacks of non-Muslim origin thoughts and practices are enlarged while minimizing the drawbacks and practices of Muslim origin thoughts and practices and thus fortifying your own mindset within Esher`s triangle.

Islam has a problem with modernity and freedom (of thoughts and actions: notice the don`ts in Islam) and therefore fundamentalists oppose it because they actually believe and practice the original ``uncorrupted`` faith and score more point ith god in their own belief. Therefore it is better to reject the symbolism of ``golden age of Islam`` than admiring or being indifferent to it.

Second point is that Islamic moral code or the list of don`t as mentioned in quran and hadith, and practices accordingly (as MMA is doing in NWFP and Balochistan) are not even secondary but last things to worry about once other important issues in personal life and civic society are settled. Even the early Islamic practioners practiced Islamic moral code after defeating enemies, plundering and dividing up the booty.

The booty in this world is wealth, both material and knowledge. The wealth must be generated through a systematic scientific approach. Two most important factors in achieving it are liberal education (wealth of mind) and consumer spending. Islam is at odd with both. The liberal education allows to create its own path that is not bound by the Esher`s triangle and consumer spending is not possible when there is nothing to buy in a music-free, video-free, toothpaste and tooth brush-free, jeans- free, trousers-free, underwear free, radio-free, tv-free, art-free, entertainment-free and so on world. Spending on quran, ja-nimaz, tasbeehs, kalashnikovs, rocket launchers, goats, camels and hajj are not possible to initiate consumer spending. Moreover, it creates an environment that is not conducive to spending of any kind.

I have said repeatedly and I say it again: Islam has to be defeated in order for Muslims to be free of its detrimental influences. The defeat of Islam would not end Islam as religion but it will lose its hold on the earthly affairs of the Muslims.

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Good Article Mate! you researched well enough to point out the problems .
Well I always believed that loosers always blame and hell we are
balming either on ourselves (THE MUSLIM WORLD) or on
West which we often call (Yahood o Nisar)!
Yes Fundos are the biggest threat and I am not only talking about
Religious Fundos but every Fundo from Maulana Saab in a Mosque
to Rumsfled from Sharon to Advani. These are the real threats.
At times I think we are stuck! stuck in between and we have to decide
the path ! confused for sure. As far as the national intrests are concerned
we need to be Pakistanis and not Muslims for that. The only way we could
bring the `past golden era` where Muslims were concerned civilized
is to get united and fight against povert and crime in our respected
countries, intall democracy in kingdoms (which would be against US intrests),
and respect our own culture. I wonder how much time it would take ?
a year or maybe thousands of years but yeah it would happen one day!
atleast theres a hope!

[quote]
As a non-practising and non-believing but cultural Muslim [/quote]

After the above admission how can you then proceed to comment on Islam and Muslims from the viewpoint of a Muslim with any authority?
By your own admission you are not a believing Muslim therefore not a Muslim.

A Muslim can be non-practising and still remain a Muslim.
This is the aqidah of all traditional schools of thought except the extinct Kharijites (though Wahabis are are type of neo-Kharijite movement).

A person can not be `non-believing` and still remain a Muslim. That is an oxymoron.

Any discussion about Islam can not be restricted to practitioners or believers of Islam by the believers and practioners of Islam. If mutual exclusiveness was the norm, there should have been no proselytizing. Since Muslims expressed their beliefs to non-Muslims and converted them, non-Muslims, non-practising and non-believing have equal right to express their opinion about Islam.

The authority comes from knowledge and education; not just rubbing the forehead at regular intervals. Whoever wishes to learn can learn without baptism into religion.

...hahaha...this article, the truth, pissed off that haraaami studebaker...

http://63.194.130.82/cgi-bin/show_interactor_page.cgi?membername=sameerJB

i The liberal education allows to create its own path that is not bound by the Esher`s triangle and consumer spending is not possible when there is nothing to buy in a music-free, video-free, toothpaste and tooth brush-free, jeans- free, trousers-free, underwear free, radio-free, tv-free, art-free, entertainment-free and so on world. Spending on quran, ja-nimaz, tasbeehs, kalashnikovs, rocket launchers, goats, camels and hajj are not possible to initiate consumer spending. Moreover, it creates an environment that is not conducive to spending of any kind.

What a deep analytical brain you have!!. Sounds and seems eerily similar to distribution of Trishuls to thugs, Destruction of places of worship based on spurious evidence, genocide against minorities as a hobby. Wow, I never knew emancipation and freedom would lead people to partake in pograms against hapless minorities. All this, while half the population is going hungry and does not know where the next meal is going to come from. When people do not have proper drinking water or basic sanitation. One only has to board a train from New Delhi to any other city in India during early morning hours and you can see the teeming masses with Lotas perched up on makeshift burbs with their rounded moons in full view releiving themselves. I guess all this adds up to consumer spending and makes a vibrant economy.?!!

Also, Show me one muslim country which is `free` of ALL the things that they are allegedly missing out on, according to you?.

Stop Sniffing maaaaan! get back to reality.

AND

The less said about Mr. Talib`s article, the better it is going to be for every one. What sort of a `cultural` muslim is he that finds fault only with Islam and not a word about others?. Need to work harder on your research, Mr. Talib, if you want to stand a chance in an honest debate. No one is denying the ills that aflict contemporary muslim society, but you need to use a brush with smaller and thinner bristles rather than a broad one, as you have done, which you are ill equipped to use.

MB

Talib

Islam is going through that last painful phase of getting secularized through which once the Christianity went through.

It is last stand of the Mullas to keep the religion linked with politics.


Interestingly, the Hinduism, after 5000 centuries, seems to be now just getting politicised.

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I agree w/ sameer. If it wasnt for Islam, Muslims would be halfway decent.

God, sometimes i wonder how people can actually believe in some of the crap thats called religion these days.

Talib

Once again, the real culprit for fanning this intolerant medieval philosophy of Islam, in modern times, after the fall of secular Ottoman and Mughal Empires, is Suadi Arabia with its excessive oil money.

Suadi Arabia pumped this money into the mosques and madressas of other poverty-stricken Muslim countries along with its ritual-ridden Wahabi Philosphy which does not believe in saints, fakirs, sufism and religious reforms.

Naqshbandi,

Does a person have to just say he believes in Islam (message of the ``greatest-latest-hippest`` prophet) to be a muslim. Or does he have to actually practice it?

If it is the mere proclamation than I guess we have many muslims. If it means to adhere to it, then there has never been a muslim in history (including) your ``great`` prophet. BTW, didn`t he have more than 4 wives. Yeah, he was exempt. Nevertheless he didn`t practise what he preached for others.

Atleast, the author is decent enough to be honest and wise enough to celebrate his heritage.

Satire