Pakistan and India - Lets Compromise

``Both these moves should accompany the early removal of most of the 0.7 million Indian troops from Kashmir to allow that beautiful part of South Asia to return to normalcy.
``

How is this possible without the cessation of hostilities. Even a Pakistani will agree that the troops went after the insurgency started. How can any country simply withdraw the mechanism of law enforcement when it is needed most?

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it`s time -- for the Land of Pure Muslims -- to Forget Muslim Kashmir -- the way it forgot 140 million Impure Indian Mulsims -- and I million Impure `East` Pakistani Muslims.

and then --

the Land of Pure Muslims -- should MARRY -- the Land of Pure Hindus -- and LIVE happily ever after -- instead of KILL happily ever after.

Amusing to see the lack of responsibility and US blaming as usual. Did the US create the Kashmir problem? I don`t think so.

BTW, I think it is a good idea for the indians to create special forces for attacks on jehadi camps. The sooner we get there the sooner certain people will realize that murdering indians doesnt come for free. The SS goons may not be able to express this sentiment without prejudice or bigotry but that is the general sense of the comment. Nothing in the slightest bit wrong with it.

``Many of my neighborhood shops had glass covered charity boxes placed near the cash register-- all asking for the change and more. You guessed it: they belonged to one or other ‘jehadi’ outfit promising to fight our wars – wars that saved our honor and protected innocents from the wrath of the cruel neighbor. I wonder if they are still there. In late 2001 the government issued instructions forbidding such collection but nothing happened – the boxes kept filling up.``

Do you need any more reasons to explain, even justify, the anger on the faces of the BBC audience?

``A year ago I lived in Pakistan’s capital. Many of my neighborhood shops had glass covered charity boxes placed near the cash register-- all asking for the change and more. You guessed it: they belonged to one or other ‘jehadi’ outfit promising to fight our wars``

This has been mentioned before in a number of press articles, and is being referred to, for the first time on chowk.

But for saying precisely this, that ordinary Pakistanis support jihad against Indians, a lot of bad things are/were said about me on chowk by the dishonest Pakistani liars on chowk whom I can name on payment of a nominal 2 naya paisa.

As is the usual style, the author pontificates how India should do a list of something, US should do a list of something else. All that Pakistanis need to do is apparently sit back and moralize, and oh lie some more.

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United Nations force for LOC?

IMHO, any sustainable solution will have to come directly by & between our countries, warts and all. What is the track record of the UN that we are looking at this over-priced bloated mechanism?

Bleeding each other in Siachen, deserts and coastal waters needs to be addressed, and for that we do not require UN. If Kashmir still remains a tangled mess, then solutions will emerge once the common people of Kashmir on both sides see the benefits of peaceful co-existence in other parts of India/Pakistan.

re: #8 veeresh

++
IMHO, any sustainable solution will have to come directly by & between our countries, warts and all.
++

Left to our own, our countries will not talk to each other for another 10 years. If you have the Nawaz-Vajpayee summit in mind, then reconsider your position. The Jamaat-e-Islami caused serious problems for Nawaz in that episode. Nawaz just used the Lahore process to sell sugar (from his own mills) in India. Moreover, he okayed the Kargil operation before meeting Vajpayee anyway.

Therefore, I am deeply suspicious of the bilateral route. It is fraught with lack of transparency, guarantees and trust. There is a significant lobby of militant Hindu-haters and Muslim-haters in both countries who have a vested interest in confrontation. Third-party mediation (or call it facilitation if you may) is the only way to make this mischievous lot behave.

Nevertheless, the present ``thaw`` in relations will reverse anyway... because Vajpayee`s offer of peace is pure rhetoric. Jamali can afford to be flexible on Kashmir. But for Vajpayee flexibility means reduction of hegemony/control over Kashmir. Any change in status quo will hurt India more than Pakistan. Therefore, no Indian politician will willingly agree to change the status quo.

Since India controls Kashmir through violence/force, only through violence can that control be weakened. Hence the need for sustained armed struggle by the Kashmiris. I don`t see any way out of this deadlock. Brace yourselves for another military mobilization in June/July.

His Excellency:

You are the most realistic Pakistani on Chowk. Actually let me rephrase that. You are the one that most accurately reflects the views of the Pakistani establishment.

Nasah:

`` to Forget Muslim Kashmir -- the way it forgot 140 million Impure Indian Mulsims -- and I million Impure `East` Pakistani Muslims. ``

Arrey, how can you be so illogical? Just as a grrom seeks a fair skinned bride, the Pakis want ``Fair Kashmiris`` and not dark skinned Bhaiyyas and Bengalis. :)

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Kashmir is a land of Kashmiris. They don`t like insurgance of any kind. First the insurgance of Indian forces by Pundit Nehru and then the insurgance of religious gurellas from Pakistan have made a hell out of our land. Kashmiris want both of them to get out of here ASAP. If Indians love their Pundits, then they should call them to India instead of sending troops in Kashmir on their demand. If they think that Pundits are noble people, then they should benefit from their services in India. Kashmiris don`t want their services. I don`t know why they wish to serve us by force against our will.

Well I think its about time India and Pakistan should compromise
on certain things `give and take` theory applies here ..
yes Pakistan need to build some confidence but only
when Indians are serious in giving something. I do
understand the reservations on the Indian side but
come again they (Indians) have to stop being a snob
and talk serious or there might be more deaths and
destruction. I have been to India thrice and I know
how Muslims feel about India in India....but lets not
go into the past and look at the tremendous prospects
which lies ahead! we need to trust eachother to make
gains ....if we want a relationship of any sort. Pakistanis
and Indians at times are fed up of issues coz` everyone
knows the fundos are the problem fundos in Pak Army and
Fundos in BJP.......
lets give peace another chance ...
lets tru to trust eachother one more time..
lets hope one more time..
love ,
Ali Chishti

#4 by nasah on May 7, 2003 8:40pm PT
-- the Land of Pure Hindus --

kahan hai aisa land?
Where is such a land? Nepal? Not India ..don`t tell me..

nasah ji..don`t ccall yourself `impure Indian muslims`..so what if people from `land of pure muslims` judge you all...it is better to be moderate..like you are i suppose

``Pakistan has consistently denied any aid, training or support for the so-called jihadists. In this we have been economical with the truth. Our consistent denials have seriously eroded our credibility. For so-called patriotic reasons the press too has played down our indulgence in this regard. Jihad has never been debated in parliament.

A Kashmir solution may only be possible once we truly exit out of the trap of these unexamined and unquestioned beliefs. If we wish to come out of the closet, let jihad in Kashmir be discussed openly and decided by parliament. Our secret closet is the ISI, which is the invisible maker of policy and it thrives on open-ended state funding. ``

//Above is from dawn of today, from an article by a pakistani, and you gussed it, he is not a muslim from pakistan. There are educated pakistanis on chowk, like tahmed, but will not dare even to cut and paste it on chowk, and you know why, the education, the k for kafir education, from early childhood, speciality of the majority pak religion.