Who Says You Cant Buy Love?

Thank you all for reading and for some interesting comments. The following posts, though, are intriguing and need some clarifications?

nazarhayatkhan (#16):

I think you have misunderstood when you say I put the onus of morality on women. I have merely reiterated that it is how society perceives it. My last sentence clearly states my position: ?If he has the right to declare that his monetary offer is to ?make myself more interesting?, then the woman too should be given the respect she deserves for helping him achieve just that, not only for the money but for the honour of letting him be so kick-ass as he kicks the bucket.?

Besides, your ?man does it? versus ?woman does it? is a strange argument in the East/West conflict. Unless it is rape, it cannot be just ?done?. Agreed, the level of enjoyment and acceptance of one?s sexuality are issues that come not only with cultural, but emotional baggages as well, and these can apply to any society.

[Basically all religions have been harsh to the woman in sex matters. When religions came, consciousness of society had yet not yet been fully developed. The societies have also thrown up strange pre-conceived wisdoms such as that man is polygamous and woman is monogamous. The women have actually been brainwashed to the extent that they have come to even believe this concoction.]

I do not think women have come to believe this. Women are monogamous by nature for a very simple reason ? they can have multiple orgasms; men alas fall in a heap. Re. religion and sexuality, if you are interested you might like to check out an old piece of mine on Chowk: ?Making religion sexy?.

tahmed32 (#25):

Since I qualify as a friendly Indian enemy, your queries regarding wife-swapping etc?as far as I know even in the big liberal cities, they are restricted to closed groups. It is not something that happens everywhere. Mumbai is certainly a liberal city, but far from licentious. As a matter of fact, it lacks hypocrisy?You do have pockets of high society types indulging in what might be perceived as wayward behaviour (where women are equal participants), which I believe may be found in Lahore as well. As for parties going on till 4 am etc, many of them have stock brokers and corporate honchos discussing money matters! I also think a ?life-style? encompasses more than merely how you conduct your gender relationships.

Saminasha (#44):

[Credit goes to Farzana Versey for writing this and Chowk for replicating it online.]

Thanks but frankly I am surprised by this statement. Do you believe that it is unusual for a woman to discuss such a subject, or an Indian woman or a woman from the subcontinent? If so, then why? And do you believe that a website must be applauded for carrying this when it showcases many more ?warts??

I am curious because my first ever column in an Indian paper was on pornography after which I continued to discuss these issues. The reactions? From the knee-jerk to some extremely perceptive responses. I should think a website would be a more ?open? forum for such things. Interestingly, the men?s magazine, which showcases sexuality, for which I did a series of these articles found me too much of a feminist!

[We tend to like to compulsively link what labor women do to biological or sociological imperatives; in Iran at one point of the Khomeini rev., it was a mother`s/wife`s/daughter`s duty to produce and indoctrinate righteous Iranians, when we do housework, its because its female duty and not unpaid labor, when women sex work, its tied to loose morals and not economic crisis.]

Re. the last point, I think I was clear in my article that it need not be either, but fact of the matter is it often is about economic compulsions or, as was the case with Christine Keeler, a mutual understanding that backfired. On biological/sociological imperatives?in some senses it applies to men as well ? they have to play the patriarchal role, be the initiators in a sexual relationship and perform well (it does not matter whether the women, due to their own conditioning, notice what on earth is happening or not).

Veeresh:

[(Most) men talk about ?doing it? with women when they haven`t been able to get anywhere with them.]

A male obstetrician friend told me that the moment you see a hulk of a guy trying to be too publicly schmaltzy with a woman, chances are he is in desperate need of help.

Regards,
Farzana

well.. great effort.. lekin i have yet to discover who made this triangle of love-sex and-honor/... anyone pls put me wise

Hawas ko hai nishat-i-Kar kia kia

tahmed: an excerpt from the article...

``Apart from titillating nonsense and the no-nonsense practical guides, a third variety of sex manuals is also in the market. Wrapped in a green plastic cover and written by Hazrat Maulana Mohammad Idrees Sahib Ansari, the Islamic sex manual called `Muslim Husband and Muslim Wife` is actually a collection of various ahadith dealing with the subject. Although the least popular on the streets, its print order runs into millions (perhaps exceeding even those of the Shatars) because it is part of a compulsory course in the Punjab. Of course this manual only addresses the man.
`Muslim Husband and Muslim Wife` deals primarily with questions such as a man`s choice of a woman, the right ways of performing a nikah and the rights and duties of women toward their husbands. Some oblique references towards the references towards the necessity of sex can indeed be found in this book (in the section on `Muslim husband` only). But otherwise it is a code of social, raher than sexual conduct.
Among the many observations made in one of these books is the one that says: `it is best to leave the woman alone.` The rationale behind this is as follows: `a woman was made from the rib of a man. The rib is the most curved bone in the body. It is therefore natural that the woman should have many personality distortions which may not be necessarily understood. And just as a rib breaks into two if someone tries to straighten it, a woman will also be broken into pieces if any man tries to set her right. It is thus best to leave her alone.```

And...

``Many writers and publishers have also attempted to foil the censor board by producing cheap pornography disguised as sex manuals. For example `Suhag ki Pehli Raat` is written in the form of a collection of letters from a newly-wed woman to her younger sister. Her letters describe in increasingly graphic detail, all that transpires on her wedding night.
Since this book is technically a sex manual, it cannot use the vernacular. the result is that some highly titillating situations are discussed in terms that put a damper on the proceedings. The book also needs to discuss the problems and issues related to sex. It is therefore no surprise - although definitely hilarious - to see this unfortunate couple encountering just about every problem that can occur in the sexual lives of human beings in the course of one fateful night.``

excerpt in the earlier post is from: Herald April 2002

faisalsuno: vazeer`s canteen ki brownies *droool*....:)

tahmed32: academic interest??? *grins wickedly*

Tidbit #43 I re-read my earlier response to your post and I see that I missed the central and very important point you were making: the famous ``suhag ki raat``, much romanticized in desi films, songs and ghazals. As you indicate, from the woman`s persepective this can be an unpleasant and even terrifying experience despite the fact that isromanticized in desi movies and urdu ghazals and in popular culture as in the books you mention.

I think the proper thing to do is for the would-be couple to discuss their sexual relations in advance, and I think any would-be groom who is at least half a man would realize that it is best to put off sex until at least a few days, or when the bride herself feels comfortable, whichever comes later. This advice would probably work in some cases, but given the insecurities and immaturity of many desi men, and given the economic situation in which most brides find themselves, it would not work and the man would proceed to do what desi men have been doing for ages and treat the bride like a lamb being slaughtered. I wonder if the books you refer to bring up this ``woman`s aspect`` and advise how important it is to respect the bride`s true feelings in this case. Or whether they simply take it for granted that sex will take place on the first night, regardless of how unpleasant it proves for the woman.

ref post# 38:

must be a rite of passage at st pats cause i also learnt about the facts of life as a twelve year old on a hot summer day standing outside vazeer`s canteen during recess.

also would be much obliged if anyone can provide information on the exact location of napier road? and do ladies of the night still ply their trade on that location? i know that for a time, russian hookers had set up shop at avari but went back after stock market bubble burst in late nineties.

also women we hired to perform mujras at friends wedding got progressively hotter after advent of satellite tv in mid nineties. pains me to say this but we have to thank rupert murdoch for this.

Tidbit #43 It would of itself be a healthy thing that there are so many bookstores in pakistan - I remember going to Jeddah once and searching in vain for a bookstore: the place was littered with junk - perfume shops, an entire market for jewellry, travel luggage shops and so forth - but no book shops. I could tell right there that the Saudis were not headed anywhere despite their oil wealth.

In Pakistan bookshops, there was indeed plenty of racy material - I bought that book last year when I was in Rawalpindi that related the sexual shenanigans of Pakistani politicians that would make Bill Clinton look like a boy scout. I did not dig too deeply into these books although I am sure what you say is true: sex sells whether in London, Bangkok or Rawalpindi.

For myself, I do recall as a schoolboy once ``reviewing``, for academic interest only of course :-), a porno book that was written in urdu. It was the story of a bawarchee who made out with the begum sahiba and later with her neighbor as well. I can imagine countless humble bawarchees in Pakistan, resting their weary souls in their dimly lit servant quarters, going through this book while the begum sahiba slept peacefully in the house unaware of what that good-for-nothing servant of hers was fantasizing about her.

sammi: (#44)


It IS a job for both and should be understood as labor.

…only if we stretch the definition to the max…it is not economic crisis……exploitation, degradation, subjugation perhaps…but job or economic crisis?…hardly!

…while largely man-made religions have exploited women and short changed them over the millennia…we ought to have made a distinction between job and genitalia exploitation…there are men who would line up and volunteer for being part of porn movies…not so for women…that is the discrepancy and the crux...

...t

``at 72, when he awaits the call of death`` -- either too much of a good thing is not good for health...

or -- the man is a cunnig freeloader, healthy as a horse, planning to live without paying for his pleasures.

reminds me of an 85 year Miami widow with asthma who was also awaiting the `call of death`.

She advertized in Miami Herald that whosoever will pay her 2000 dollars/month till she dies will inherit her 250,000 townhouse free after her death --

a shrewed business man bought the lucrative investment and started paying -- now that was 20 years ago -- the man is still paying...

..... meanwhile, back at the looney ranch :


`` At least 150 men have been arrested in the northwestern town of Peshawar in an ``anti-obscenity`` drive by the fundamentalist provincial government`` (reuters)

.........so while we are discussing the merits of playboy and the role hefner has played in the emancipation of beautiful women, the faithful are torturing bus drivers for playing music ............ maybe hefner should invite maulana fazloo and his watwani friends for a weekend at the mansion to see if they can be cured of the mad mullah disease .........but then these folks are probably waitng to get into the big mansion in the sky where forty virgins and the odd boy ``whose bum is like a peach`` are waiting for them..........

........ by the way, i agree with samina that being a porn actor is just a job for both men and women ......... it might not offer the best career opportunities, but it sure beats the heck out of busing tables at a mexican restaurant .............however, it is rather silly to suggest that ``we tend to like to compulsively link what labor women do to biological or sociological imperatives``.......... and what about the fact that mrs hamidm expects me to gas up the cars, take out the trash and move the couch whenever she has a sociological fit to rearrange the furniture (sometimes i think this condition is biological since it seems to follow a regular pattern) ..........

Reply #44 Saminasha

Well said. Clear thinking.

Even Farzana seems to imply the morality issue on woman.

Men always go scot free. They are just naughty.

Credit goes to Farzana Versey for writing this and Chowk for replicating it online.

A couple of points;

Re: ``Isn’t it a job for both of them? Or are they putting in different kinds of effort – the woman exposing her whole self, the man merely a part of him?``

It IS a job for both and should be understood as labor. We tend to like to compulsively link what labor women do to biological or sociological imperatives; in Iran at one point of the Khomeini rev., it was a mother`s/wife`s/daughter`s duty to produce and indoctrinate righteous Iranians, when we do housework, its because its female duty and not unpaid labor, when women sex work, its tied to loose morals and not economic crisis.

The mythologizing and distortion of women occurs at a comprehensive level that two people of opposite genders doing the same exact thing renders two different explanations-one is doing work and the other betraying her soul/body/family/patriarchy/nation/etc.. This discrepancy to me is the crux of the matter.

regards

re: Romair and tahmed32

its funny you should mention this because i was reading an article in a purana herald tht talks about the subject of local porn...apparently there`s a huge porn industry in pakistan that noone likes to talk about...they have all these roadside booksellers in lahore that have books like `suhag ki pehli raat` `mian biwi ka rishta` and a book in which a newly married girl has written letters to her sister telling her bout her `first night`....the language and style of writing in these books portray a horrifying picture of sex and life after marriage....and there is a recurrent theme in all of these books....if a woman means no, she actually means yes...lotsa other scary stuff in it....

romasir #39 on pashto porn: i believe that is to be found even in urdu textbooks. as in ``bay bakri`` and ``meem murghi``.