Conflict of Science with Theocracy

tahmed sahib,

ok … have it your way … but I do think it’s useless being incensed …
like I said … you are alright … just a little headstrong at times … only this time I decided to go tit for tat …
and once again … no hard feelings … but would recommend though … not to take this chowk stuff too seriously …

peace out …

Urstruly,

You are wrong … when you claim that Mirza Sahib called his opponents “children of prostitutes”. Furthermore, you incorrectly state that the actual words were written in Urdu. This shows your ignorance.

The actual quote is in Arabic … and is mistranslated by your mullah. Mirza Sahib used the expression “zurrayatil baghaya” for his opponents. The sentence is … “Every Muslim will accept me and will confirm my claim except the zurrayatul baghaya, whose hearts will have been sealed up by God Almighty” (Ayena Kamalat Islam, pgs 547-548).

The well-known lexicon Tajul Urus gives the meaning of “baghy”, which is singular form of “baghaya”, as a female slave, whether of ill conduct or not. Accordingly, the meaning of “zurrayatul baghaya” is progeny of female slaves, that is to say, those who do not passes the manly quality of accepting the truth. Note that there are no references to the conduct of the female slave here.

Tajul Urus further states that to call a person “son of baghayyah” means that he is deprived of guidance.

+++++++++++++++++

Your mullah made things up against Mirza Sahib, and you have made a fool of yourself by believing him. Your credibility … and the credibility of your mullah … is at stake here. Naqshbandi earlier bit the dust. It’s your turn now …

Comments?

Dear roohi:

You are correct; the clash between Hypatia and Christianity precedes the clash between Galileo and the Roman Catholic Church. My statement, if you notice, was qualified. I had stated, ``The first head-on clash between science and theocracy, which is well documented in the hhistory of science....`` I had used Galileo`s episode only to make a point. I am glad however that you brought up Hypatia in your post because she was surely a remarkable woman. Wishing you well,

Mohammad Gill

urstruly #77 i am not whining, nor am i mad at mr. sattar2. i didnt even ask him to go wash his mouth after he was through with his abusive outburst after being caught lying.

As for me, just get me a female ape (or four, being a muslim ape) to share the cage with and i`ll be fine.

A correction Mr.Gill !!

The first head-on clash between science and theocracy was NOT between Galileo and the Roman Catholic Church, in the seventeenth century.

The first head-on-clash between science and theocracy was between the Roman Catholic Chruch and a woman mathamatician, Hypatia of Alexandria in the forth century !! Do you agree ?

Read more about her

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/ockham/or030897.htm

tahmad , the caged ape in a zoo.

bhai you are whining for nothing. I think sattar is being incredibly nice to you as compared to his prophet who wasn`t that charitable with his opponents:

``Except for the children of prostitutes, whose hearts have been sealed by God, everyone has accepted my Prophethood.``

(Aina-e-Kamalat-e-Islam, p.547 by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Quadiani)

The actual words are written in urdu something like this ``sawaae kanjariuN ke bachoN ke jin ke dil par khuda ne mohar laga di hay sab meri nabuwat par iman le ay haiN``

I guess this prophet had quite a sense of humor.

sattar2 #75 As I said, I will not be responding to your posts anymore. So please dont try to continue interacting with me. Thank you.

tahmed,

Your situation is a bit like that of a caged ape in a zoo … irritated and enraged … because a mischievous six year-old is making faces at him from the other side.

Now, you’ll probably respond by posting your medical history and your PCP’s testimonials … and insist that sattar is lying once again … since in reality you are a human and not an ape ... and you can prove this. Relax Sahib … and don’t get excited. The said reference is to your mindset and behavior … and not to your DNA.

You continue to slip into delusions of self-importance … and are determined to win every tiny cyber conflict with total strangers. This is not good. You need therapy … the more severe type. Logic, quran, morality etc. will not work here … as you refuse to use common sense and fail to lighten up. With that said, I’ll leave you alone in your cage and let you quietly ponder over your condition …

hamidm2 #72 So far, sattar2 has been trying to cover-up by pretending that he was lying only as part of a comedy act (sattar2 of course being a well-known chowk comedian).

Given his lack of success with this coverup (his anger and abusive language kept slipping out of the cover, as I pointed out in my post #70 below), I guess you felt the need to provide him another cover to hide behind, namely the Ahmedi community. This wont work either, I am sorry to say. Since what he is hiding from are his own words, not mine.

As for mrs. hamidm, you are obviously doing something wrong. This is the way you convince her and save your child from having to read without understanding what is written:

.......................(thinking)...................(thinking).....................

OK: I`ll let you know when I have figured out a way - luckily in my case it was my child who spoke up, and saved me the trouble of having to point out the irrationality of reading something in Arabic.

``Events in the Muslim world may very well fall in the pattern of European history … if it has not already happened.``

It has not, and can`t.

``Furthermore, a mullah does not need an advanced degree in physics to understand the threat posed by education to his halwa, jihad fund, and the following of devotees … his age-old formula simply being … keep people ignorant, and stay in the driver’s seat … ``

No, that`s the feudal lord`s formula. The breed of ``mullah`` you`re talking about simply scoffs at education period. Kind of like rualites over here...``whyse you all get a university edumacation?`` they ask. ``What good is it?`` There`s a difference between that and *preventing* people from obtaining an education.

sattar mian (and tahmed, you might read it too),

.......... you are a very brave man to tangle with the likes of mr tahmed, a man who is bent on winning the cyber jihad against drunkards, ahmedi sympathizers and other assorted enemies of the book? ............ thank god for microsoft, otherwise he would be out their living in a dark cave in afghanistan!

........ i am glad to inform you that my older daughter was rescued from the clutches of the tax-evading arabic-babbling qari at the age of twelve ......... i am also sorry to report that my younger one, inspite of her protestations, is still being subjected to this senseless torture once a week ............ BUT, i try to undo the harm within an hour of that fiend`s departure............ i also try to set a good example by not praying, saying blasphemous things at the dinner table and doing what the crazy muslims hate most - drinking!........... tahmed still doesn`t get the importance of drinking in the jihad against islam and ignorance!....... he doesn`t understand the powerful symbolism!.......... and no, it is not like bra-burning, it is more like gandhi`s insistence on running around naked!...... he was cold and he knew he looked ridiculous, but he still did it for the cause.........

........ but you still might ask, ``what kind of a man am i to allow my poor daughter to be subjected to this cruelty`` ............ obviously, you haven`t met mrs hamidm!

sattar2: And incidentally, further to my post below, I will not be responding anymore to your posts.

sattar2 #69 So first you lie. You get caught, and instead of apologizing, you choose to lecture me on lack of humor. I remind you that there is nothing funny about being untruthful. You try to continue your lecture to me on my lack of humor, but cannot control your anger and your post is littered with abusive words (``moron...paranoid...Dullness...is only matched by your obsession …paranoia borders on abnormality...as$...fool...senseless, neurotic comments.``). And you end your post with a pious ``no hard feelings, I hope``.

I dont need to define you for what you are. Your post speaks for itself. And you seek to discuss religion on chowk!!

tahmed Sahib,

If you notice … Naqshbandi does not have an uncle in hazara with a camel either. But that’s alright … it’s only a joke … which seems to have escaped a moron like yourself. And rest assured - no one is out to get you, so you can stop being paranoid.

Now, despite kissing the graves of dead pirs, Naqshbandi apparently still has enough sense that he understood the joke. But you didn’t. And that’s a travesty. Dullness in your personality is only matched by your obsession … that of diligently ``catching untruthful people`` on chowk, as if with a divine purpose, … and citing statistics and records of each one`s individual reaction. Sahib … such paranoia borders on abnormality and is not healthy. A normal adult should have other interests. Apparently, you don’t.

So I’ll give you some friendly, earnest advice. You may reject it … and that’s alright … I can only try. Take a joke as a joke … and don’t lose sleep over it. No one is out to get you … so learn to relax … and have a little fun in life and on chowk. Morality, Quran and stuff are good to have … but not worth annoying others over while making an as$ of one’s self. And as the old adage goes … don’t argue with a fool … I’ll try to minimize responses to your senseless, neurotic comments. Good luck … and no hard feelings, I hope.

sattar2 #66 Lying is not funny, my dear sir. Chowk is a great place to catch people who forget that, unlike the spoken word, what you write on chowk cannot be disowned by you later on. You are the fourth such person I have caught being untruthful on chowk.

When thus irrefutably caught lying on chowk by their own words, three of the others chose to simply not respond after that. The fourth had the decency to apologize. You have come up with a new tack: to try and catch the moral high ground by lecturing me on humor. I guess every fish tries its own way to escape when caught by the net of its own making.

tahmed,

humor my friend ... it is called humor. Apparently you are missing more than a few genes ...

... don`t take life sooooo very seriously ... it makes discussions with you more annoying than being seated next to a talkative proctologist at a shadi dinner ...