Colour discrimination

Correction:

Post 80 should read...

- Women/Men who go through mental abuse in their marriages should...

Studebaker you seems dark colored hindu from your comments. I love all pppl as I said before hindoos, blacks,handicaps every body. I want everybody to be happy. I am in business of Hospitality. I work on 4-star hotel on Dr.Ziauddin Rd, Karachi,sindh pakistan. Our only thought is make all guest happy so they make me happy. I want lots of Hindus of Sindhi origin come to visits us. Our hotel top management is working on possibility of tours for hindu sindhis from india. As things open we wants sindhis to come to visit real sindh and proud of their Muslim sindhi brothers. Manager said it can permanant business. I am telling boss we can have packaged tours for hindu sindhis.
It can be good for both countries, we are short of visitors presently. My comments increase when no too much work. You see few months have been good but it has been bad today completely. Some time KSE hits double centuries but we hit sinking feeling in our hotel its strange. Now I am recoved from losses in Adamjee Insurance. Thinking of buying ICI and HUB. any way.

Faisal UNO (good Faisal of uited nations) .. I appreciate very much for agreeing with me. Things are down in Karachi presently so you appreciation made feel good. We are betting little money on local MMA or MQM will win. MQM has put heavy gun for election. I am happy you are making tons of money. Money is power. I hope you are in milk white people country of usa. Well you are not dark due to sun burn you are born dark and its ok no problem to madani. You can tell other if you feel but now you must improve little by good cold air water of usa. Many people tell girls will whiten up after marriage that is also not true.Just selling proposal tactics. You can tell Marry white race and be two step forward. You will make even more proud your parents and all far flung family. Any way thanks just its miserable no guests no trips no dollars. This spell must brake. good luck every body

ahmed madani,

............ you rock! ......

Post # 71:

I agree with your assertions made in reference to this article. Your first para is only exposing those who base their relationships on lies and deceit and then try to play a victim`s role. It`s a known weakness of the South Asian Community to avoid upfront communication.


On another note:

I am completely clueless on why the writer under discussion had two daughters with this
holy man ? Did the mental abuse begin after the daughters were born? If not then how could she think of having babies with this person ? I am unable to understand this mystery!

To me, it seems more like some domestic chapqalash that is getting more attention than needed. It should be resolved between the two people and eventually that will be the end route. For the very same reason, the article portrayed a very light reading in the beginning. It still does. The writer`s responses are extremely weak and are not in line with the orginal theme of this article or the impression she wanted to give.

What`s the end???

What should a reader derive from this piece? What`s the message? It`s very convoluted.

- Women who go through mental abuse in their marriages should:

a) go out and start working to boost their morale ?

b) stop paying attention to their spouse`s ridicule ?

c) give him or her dirty looks?

d) stay in the abusive relationship for the children ?

e) ignore their spouse completely ?

f) seek councelling ?

g) seek attention outside of their relationship to boost their own ego ?

??????

As I said earlier there is a gap somewhere and a poor job was done to create a connection. The intent may have been to create awareness on a social issue, but the way it`s been put forth it ain`t conveying what it intended to.

Thanks.

..........ahmed madani, as usual, hits it on the head ......

..........initially i was sympathetic towards samankhan, but after reading her responses i do believe she is invloved in some kind of a silly power struggle with her husband ......... it is kind of ridiculous to continue sleeping with a man just because he agreed to visit her parents ............and if things are as bad she makes them out to be, the kids would be much better off if they split............this whole thing sounds fishy, or as mr madani would say, it is all lufangebazi!

If you have specific questions that are not covered below, please feel free to email us. To get information on the number of calls received by Sakhi, please go to the Sakhi News section of the website and click on Updates.

What is Domestic Violence?:
Domestic violence is a pattern of assault and coercion that includes physical, emotional, verbal, sexual, and economic abuse perpetrated by an adult against their intimate partner. Domestic violence is behavior that attempts to control the victim in one or more ways. It can result in both physical and psychological harm to the victim and their children. It can also be life-threatening. It`s important to understand that verbal and emotional abuse can be as scarring as physical abuse.



How is it different in the South Asian community?:
Domestic violence exists in all communities. While the degree of violence may be the same across communities, the forms of the abuse may differ. In the South Asian community, for example, where the joint family system is often still practiced, the abuser(s) may be the in-laws, including brother-in-law and sister-in-laws, and not just the husband. Women who have come to Sakhi for help have often had to get restraining orders against their in-laws to protect themselves. In addition, dowry is a form of control particular to the South Asian community. Even in the United States, we have heard of women being punished for not bringing in enough assets to the marriage. South Asian women may also face extreme pressure to deliver a male child, and failure to do so, may result in further abuse.



How big is the problem of domestic violence?:
According to the latest FBI statistics, a woman in America is abused every 9 seconds. In the South Asian community, we estimate that 1 in every 4 families have experienced some kind of abuse. Sakhi receives approximately 30 new crisis calls per month. However, we know that for each woman who contacts us, there are more who either do not know about our services or too afraid to reach out for help.



What kind of men abuse women?:
Abusive men come from all walks of life - doctors, cab drivers, lawyers, restaurant workers, businessmen, bankers, engineers, computer programmers, shopkeepers, diplomats, and entertainers. They can be young or old, rich or low-income, and of all religious faiths and educational levels. They can be fathers, brothers, uncles, friends, and co-workers. What they share in common, however, is a belief that they can exert power over their intimate partners, and that this behavior is justifiable.



Can men be victims?:
95% of all victims of abuse are women. The small minority of abused men include men in gay relationships.



Are South Asian women in arranged marriages more abused?:
There are no statistics to indicate that South Asian women in arranged marriages are more abused than South Asian women in love marriages. Perpetrators of abuse marry women through both systems. However, forced marriages, including child marriages, are a form of abuse, and may lead to even greater violence against the woman.



Why does domestic violence happen?:
Domestic violence is the extreme expression of the belief in male dominance over women. Men who choose to abuse their partners do so because they have learned that violence ``works`` to maintain power and control in their relationships.

Domestic violence continues because our silence as a community and as a society legitimizes the abuser`s behavior. Men need to know that abuse of any kind will not be tolerated by anyone, and that there will be severe consequences for their actions.

Domestic violence is part of a continuum of oppression in which women are violated in various ways throughout the world, including rape and sexual assault, incest, sexual harassment, female genital mutilation, dowry, etc.



Do batterers change? Can counseling or mediation save the relationship?:
Batterers can change, because abuse is a learned behavior. However, abusers can change only if they first accept responsibility for their behavior and choose to learn new ways of communicating with their partner. According to numerous professional studies, traditional couples therapy is unlikely to result in the goal of a non-violent relationship. Individual and group counseling programs designed specifically for abusers are the preferred way of addressing his behavior. In addition, it is also important that the community take an active stand against abuse so that the batterer is held accountable towards his behavior.



Does Sakhi believe every woman who calls for help? Do you talk to the men to find out ``his side of the story``?:
When a woman contacts Sakhi and says that she has experienced abuse, we do not talk to the perpetrator(s). It is our policy to believe each woman who calls for help. We know how difficult it is for women to speak about what is going on in the confines of her home. After an abusive incident, the batterer often places the blame upon her, without acknowledging that that there is no excuse for his behavior. At Sakhi, we seek to listen to her without judgement and support her the best that we can.



Do the women who call Sakhi for assistance get a divorce?:
Not all the women who call Sakhi get divorced. We will present her with different options, and it is up to her to decide what is best for her. Within certain segments of the South Asian community, divorce is still seen as a mark of shame and stigma.



If a woman is here without proper immigration documents, can she call the police or go to the courts?:
Yes! In the United States, you can call the police (911) and access the Family and Criminal Courts regardless of your visa status. Undocumented women can call the police and access the legal protections offered to battered women through the court system. The police and the Family or Criminal Courts will not report a woman`s immigration status to the Immigration and Naturalization Service. Many abusers wrongly threaten their wives that if she were to call these agencies for help, she will be deported.



Do abused women have any rights to stay here legally in the United States if they are not citizens or greencard holders?:
There are a variety of legal protections for immigrant battered women. An abused woman, for example, can ``self-petition`` for a greencard if she is married to a legal permanent resident or a U.S. citizen. In addition, if a woman has a conditional greencard, she can also file for a battered women`s spouse waiver. Abused women may also be eligible for other protections, such as political asylum. However, it is best to contact an immigration attorney and/or Sakhi to get detailed information on the options, procedures for filing, the documents needed, etc. Sakhi, and other agencies, can provide women with access to free legal services, if she cannot afford a lawyer.



What are the effects of abuse on the children?:
All children suffer from witnessing their father abuse their mother. In addition to the psychological effects, children can, in fact, be direct targets of abuse. Studies indicate that it is better for children to live without their perpetrating father than in a two-parent household that is abusive. Also, boys who witness abuse are at greater risk to become perpetrators of violence in adulthood. (See related article under Survivors Stories on this website).



If a woman is being abused, why doesn`t she just leave?:
There are many reasons why abused women do not leave. For many, leaving may not be an alternative. She may have nowhere to go or little or no resources in the community available to her. Shelter space, for example, is woefully inadequate in the United States, as is affordable daycare and job-training programs. She may feel that she should not deprive her children of their father. She may be economically dependent and feel that it is better for her and her children to stay in the home than face life on the streets. She may also be ostracized from her family and friends if she leaves. She may be isolated from community gatherings.

South Asian women may face pressure to keep the stay so that the younger sister`s chances of marriage will not be ruined or that family honor will be intact. In addition, because of the messages she has received from her community, she may also feel that it is her duty to keep the marriage together at all costs. She may also want the violence to end, but not the relationship itself, hoping that it will change at some point. Finally, a battered women also faces the most physical danger from her perpetrator(s) when she attempts to leave; her abuser(s) threaten her with violence and death if she tries to escape.

It is also important to note that many women do leave once or more, but then return. After leaving, her struggles are not over. Many women have sought assistance from police, lawyers, healthcare providers, family members, and religious institutions; however, if they are not adequately supported, they are further trapped.



If I know a woman who is abused, what can I do?:
Assure her of confidentiality.Validate the woman`s experience. Let her know that she is not alone and that abuse is not her fault. Listen to her and support her without blame or judgement. Provide her with resources, including information on domestic violence organizations like Sakhi. Offer to be a contact person in an emergency. Respect her right to self-determination and choose her own path.



If I am being abused, what can I do and how can Sakhi help me?:
If you are being abused, contact Sakhi or another domestic violence agency. Tell someone who you feel will support and listen to you. If you feel yourself to be in immediate danger, call the police or your local or national domestic violence hotline (see Links page on this website). Find out what your options are. Remember that you are not alone and that you do not deserve any of his abuse! You have a right to live without fear and violence!



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Mr. De souza.......... I do not like you attitude and not liking beauty and nice color.
Black man and women are discriminated throughout world. It is well established fact even coal darkies of places like india, afrika, arabia rich always find wife bit lighter. Even your gods are dark like Krishna(mans kalu in hindi if i am correct),Govinda, rama(he was dark),shankara( blue dark) but they married white. Same now Imran or Mr. Gandhi( not old but Rajivbaba ) all married white. Even rich arabian marry white ,King of Jordan Late Hussain married white.Prince Hassan was supposed to be king but he had married dark pakistani and while dieing Hashmite ruler went for Child of white women he had fathered.. Look at Clinton he is smartest man but prefers white when comes to real things( talk is cheap). Do you think if Rajiv baba and Imran married white as they know if you want to Rule pak or india best is have whiter children. Well even hindus want white. I am all for black people. Now Kalam as Uncle Pervez said is toothless tiger ok. He is not scientist etc, just administer , its lie to say he is scientist. ( That same with our Dr. Khan). In india pakistan people are emotional cracks and just confer title as scientist. How come both kalam and khan not mentioned in scientific circle. Lafangebazi.

Southern actress are ok from India but they need to be made PRESENTABLE by changing color. Ms. Rahman Wahida I saw black white picture and really look bad without fake white color. I do not know why you do not enjoy your white Punjabi color, I am also Punjabi your brother not brother of your dark Bihari Muslim ok. I do not like Invasion of ugly Indioans. So now some Paki.(Pakistani) may not say directly but we do not want your dark biharis brought to pakistan. Let you have them as you said you like too much dark people. This one of undercurrent in Paki. mind when he does not want to fight for one million biharis, let they stink in Bangla desh. At same time we will fight till end to have Kashmir. Reason is one of is our color affinity towards white Kashmiris and we do not give damn to dark bengalis. Most whites of Pakistan were relieved to get rid od dark bengalies. See difference
of national mood. In pakistan every body claims to be related to white blood no body is proud to claim blood connection to slaves brought ( Siddhis) from africa by Muslim rules of India. Do you thik if Rajiv married a black african his widowed wife has any chance to become PM. Zero. Soniya has advantage of color, Indians say Madam Gandhi. They say madam is angree all dark congressi crowd get scared. Most attraction of Soniya is color. As indians know whites have been rulers of India and pakistan for long time. Look whatever you say, even i may agree but color counts all over world. All advts you see they say they are fair why nody says dark, or black etc? They know black is not bad person but undesirable. See every body recommends black boys and girls to their friends daughter and sons. For their son and daughter only fairer specimen.
I am not fan of Indian movies. I do not watch desi stuff, I watch english movies on cable in our hotel as relaxation. So I do not know details about songs etc. I am against trade against india for personal reasons as if it starts my and managers side business of seeling indian medicines will go down in a month. See we are forced to leave with India as our water and muslim brothers there and their welfare. If we had chance we will be better amoung white people of Central asia, white skinned people and we are destined to be with dark indians. Dark people are smart people. Its god way to compension. Like bengalis have brain better than Punjabis( fish eating evolution) and afghans. Punjabis and afghans are good looking but not very smart people for sure look at pakistan and afghanistan. Uncle pervaiz is dark he is smarter than Shujjat and all Choudharies combined. But White people of Desh have hope. If they study lot and leave gawar attitute they can become smart but dark people can not become white even if they lots of stuff on their bodies. That is point unless they go on marrying up wards( whiter ). Well dont hate blacks etc, that black mandela is coming to pakistan and is welcome for special olympic type plays by handicapped people. They may respect him but no body wants to marry his daughter or son. That is real thing. I do not kneed to tell any body all know when they are born white is good. Not even in future black is going to be beauty or women are going to start putting black polish on their face. I am happy to be white, I have no pride being whiter than average paki. but i do not seek to get darker. One of reason for eternal war between India and Pakistan is dark hindus want to dominate white pakis. This Race struggle and can get really bad over years. Everage Pakistani man or woman has contempt for hindus so 30% hindus at start is reduced to less than one percent and all pakistanis welcomed it except you sending of mohajirs to karachi and bringing crime and bad things as part of habits of dark people. I have heard from friends from usa return in usa white do not live or donot like to live in dark parts of usa ie black majority areas. If you like dark please take away all your urdu brothers from Karachi we will more than happy and give our white kashamiri brothers for whom Pakistan is fighting over 50 years and will go on fighting till kashmir is part of Pk. I have to agree dark hindus are smart. Heard all IT is develoed in india by dark people and dark brahmins of india were at forefront. It was story in BBC about that few years ago. good bye.

mr. madani:

i take my hat off to you sir, you made my day. and i admit i am an expak and a kala one at tha because of playing cricket in karachi in may. i do however make a lot of money.

faisal

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Sir/Madam It only onesided article blaming men, all men its conveys but not said directly. It is her story and we do not know what goes between men and women and specially married and frustrated and angry with each other. I do not believe verbatum every thing said. Men and women marry for differwent reasons. Yes every body wants to marry better than he or her. The man may be right that lady appeared more white than dark. Women like to deceive all time about color by applying any layers of talc etc. Beauty industry is in deceiving business. I tell always men when girls father tells following things add corrective factors.( weight x ,then x+10 Kg or 20 lbs, height 64 inches means really 62 inches, taking course in softwere means unemployed, fair means dark, wheat means dark,medium wheat means coal dark, good family background mohajir etc means no royal blood, has relatives in states with good salary means taxi driver or fast foods fast overworked underpaid, manager menas fast food cleaner).

Writer has started on wrong way as she considered herself unworthy, as she writes she was surprised to be accepted as wife. Its really start fast down slope. She is not proactive but reactive, she responds accepts subordinate position at start game. She allows man to mention about girl friend, she can invent a good former boyfriend ( and she really wants to shatter invent some hindu,sikh boyfriend), why she can not trade him insults. The weakness invites redicule. I think the dynamics was already lost. The man indecent for sure to mention to shatter his wife its very bad. She should have been active and fight like tigress. Its both ways. Once I told my boss manager that he should not complain about his wifes wieght when he is himself getting fat and unattractive. He agreed and never complained .

I do not understand why one should struck up with husband who clealy does not like, its very sad for children to know that father does not like mother and she descipes him. Children know every thing. Its torture for them. The for daughters is wrong excuses, there may be other reasons but for sake of daughters she should say good bye. Its wrong reason. If they women do not like men why they stick up to them, its honorable to depart. A sindhi interior land surf woman can be excused but not lady with all attributes described by herself, who has protection of Law its not like in our country of pakistan where women are killed on regular basis for in feudal system in so called `` honor killings``..

Even the writer writes law will be squarely and partial on herside. Why she said she does not alimony , why not punish that animal, torment men for bad deeds. As in old ages in all cultures sacraficed goats and cows not elephants or lions. Weakness on parts of women attracts oppression. I do not like men or women do stand for something and fight back squarely for their worth. The man does not like her family why he is forced to visit. Women should understand weakness brings contempt. She should leave loosing game, even she does not feel he is in love with her why this attraction to attach to a man who despies. I have come to conclusion both men and women will be much happier if get divorced than carry on absurd drama of married life. Its all bogus and children know how their parents hate each other and and children had to go through that minfield with all mines erupting at all times.
I liked attitude of Ms. A. Debara very respectful way and clearcut way.

I think this drama of coming together for children is cruel joke. The marriage is alrady over long time back ( it does not matter who was at fault.). The writer herself has carried Postmartem but conclusions are drawn are wrong. I hope she has courage to depart terrible now drama of marriage . I think there is good time and reasons to depart , its inevitable and one should find once lonely path as it is said `` everybody has to carry their own cross``. People should not blame man as we do not his side.

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Saman
++
He might have come back to save his skin (he is a government employee and the Indian law views a woman`s point of view with much sympathy) but it was basically out of his concern for the girls...
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Yes..that is the whole point. You are an Indian woman..our women are going miles..doing everything possible ...reaching for stars...they are brave and society is on their side...
India needs smart, brave career women..a vital part of our progressing society

I would suggest you to have some good friends in Bombay(is that where u live?) who don`t advice you to breakup your family life at the first go but support you morally and emotionally..as per your need
You contact the right organisations for counselling and emotional support but don`t let your husband feel put down in the process as this will further spoil things.
Have faith in yourself...and one day...this same husband will change
And if he really doesn`t change..not even with your love....you then can take some step and then not look back

++
So there...I must be the first on chowk to have narrated her daastan-e-ghum at the first go!
I have no regrets though...dukh bantne se hi to kum hota hai...
++

But not everyone understands...not the `turks` like ahmadmadani

You are brave...most of the women pretend to be happily married lest the balme doesn`t come on them

#65 by ahmedmadani on June 20, 2003 9:04pm PT
Sir/Madam.................................... I am for sympathy for dark people of India and pakistan. I am 55 years old chhap person white skin( Tuirkish type blood mixed with persian cream related to Aitulla Shariat Madani of Iran(Tabriz-azari blood) and feel one should prefer white than dark. Now it is all possible dark person has good mind but good mind is not good as people see dark person dark. Hindi movie song has said by Raja Kapoor (hindoo Punjabi white) `` hum hay kale fir bhi dilwale``.
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ahmedmadani...your thoughts are repulsive
But I have seen many paksitanis saying similar things about thier `fair colour`....blabla...

There are higher and deeper things in life than color
And then in India ...we value deeper things in women than shallow beauty..and some of the most beautiful women are dark...Hema Malini...Rekha...and many others

Our President Kalam is dark in complexion...but is the most respected man because he is so highly educated and a revered scientist

+Hindi movie song has said by Raja Kapoor (hindoo Punjabi white) `` hum hay kale fir bhi dilwale``.+

I am also a hindu punjabi...a fair one too...but I don`t say I am white. I don`t feel I am in any way superior to those Indians who are bit darker. We all are different flowers of the same bouquet--India

And it is Raj Kappor, not RAja
And the song is `hum kale hain to kya hua dil wale hain`...sung so cutely and beautifully on the screen by much loved Junior Mehmood. Where is lafangebazi in that??


You impossible...incorrigible pakistani men...

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Dear readers,
I did not expect my first effort to generate so much dialogue!
I might have given the impression of being a week-kneed, compromising woman of the East, so here it goes:
I approached the family counselling centre (which incidentally is associated with the woman`s cell of the police department!), either for an honourable reconciliation or an amicable separation...I gave my husband the full liberty to keep the kids and not worry about any alimony or retalliatory proceedings from my side should he opt for separation...he opted for reconciliation.
I had many grievances but the foremost conditions I now put was that he would maintain relations with my parents and not drop and pick us up like a chauffeur at the gate and behave as if they did not exist.
He agreed even though most of the time he sits there like a rock of Gibraltar!
And opens the mouth only to stuff the goodies or when my father initiates a dialogue and draws him into a conversation...but come home he does!
Though the severity has subsided, the remarks sometimes continue...(lardh se keh raha hoon, as he says!)...so depending upon how much it is in lardh or otherwise, I either let go or give back in good measure.
I am no longer the murrawwat ki mari...he and his family have very well come to understand that...I get things done my way or settle scores there and then and close the chapter...
I earn my own upkeep and spend as I do...
If he can do as he pleases, so do I...
I no longer depend upon him for emotional or moral support...I am always ready with an alternative...so no more heart burns...but if an issue demands his attention, I make sure that he obliges...
I HAVE ALSO MADE CLEAR TO HIM THAT SHOULD SOMETHING GO WRONG NOW I WOULD STRAIGHT AWAY INITIATE PROCEEDINGS AND NOT APPROACH ANY FAMILY COUNSELLING CENTRE AS IN THE PAST...
He might have come back to save his skin (he is a government employee and the Indian law views a woman`s point of view with much sympathy) but it was basically out of his concern for the girls...
I too gave it another shot precisely for the same reason...

So there...I must be the first on chowk to have narrated her daastan-e-ghum at the first go!
I have no regrets though...dukh bantne se hi to kum hota hai...
And I have gained so much...
As most of you have wished, mein khush reh rahi hoon, I have learnt to be happy.
Thankyou, Ana for sharing a close personal tragedy...I am touched.
Thank you all once again...
Sameena Khan.