The Follies of the Natives

rsaxena,

......... if you remember, it was you who brought up the paki obsession with china .......... the whole world is obsessed with china (with the exception of india, of course!).......... it might be my imagination, but it seems that indians seem to be rather prickly whenever someone mentions china .......... it is not unlike the muslims, who get all wound up whenever somone mentions the progress made by western civilization and start ranting and raving about the decadence of the west ......... little boys never outgrow p%ni$-envy!

......... and accenture is not a ``real`` management consulting company - don`t let them fool you!


tahmed,

... you are right, the us still ranks #1 in fdi but according to a ``real`` consulting firm, ``for the first time in five years, China overtook the U.S. as the most attractive foreign investment destination`` :

http://www.atkearney.com/main.taf?p=5,3,1,51..............

.... but i was talking about the trend ............ a lot of us have been saying that no one can sustain a double digit growth year after year, but the chinese keep on proving us wrong ........ who knows, like the japanese, they might come to a screeching halt, but for now they look unstoppable .........

...... but why are talking about china?......... let`s go back to discussing the merits of swiss style democracy ........ i can`t believe ferozk !............. we should be talking about how to get the water buffaloes off the streets instead of discussing the evils of campaign financing in the us !......... i am equally guilty - an educated desi is a moron (not an oxymoron, just a moron).................

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hamidam dada,

.....you are losing it....your obsession with india is as bad as that of naqshabandis and urstrulys who you love to mock...


....i talked about your comparison of china and japan...expectedly, you couldn`t stand it and dragged india in to divert attention...tsk tsk...i thought you were smarter than that...seriously....no one is denying china has outpaced india....

...can you calculate for me how many chaptas can buy a sock at gucci with their $900/year average income?....(yes, more sock than an indian can, but that`s beside the point)....now do you know how much an average japanese with his/her $35,000/year income can buy?...sniff some heeng if it helps....

re: hamidm

{and the surprising thing is that these stores are packed with chinese women with perfect teeth and cash to spend ............ }

...yes, and come to africa with me and in every capital i can find you a high-end boutique with a pack of even better looking women and more cash to spend....while elsewhere in the country tribes hack each other to death over the village`s last piece of bread...

....is this the type of analytical thinking you learnt in management consulting?...tsk tsk...must be from accenture or something....

hamidm: while we are tossing numbers around ($54b fdi for China, $4.3b India, $0.5b Pakistan) let me toss one more in: $500b for US. And this was after dot com: in 2000 it was $1t (as in trillion). Make these numbers per capita and the difference between South Asia vs. China vs. US becomes even more striking.

re: SR # 51

Well said!

I think that Temporal and I had decided on the envitable some time back in 1999, when T posted an interact suggesting that whole structure needs to kicked down and re-constructed. You will have no agruments from me on this idea.

SR, this article is, when you think about it, really incomplete. In the sense, it was more a cry of the heart than an attempt at analysis. Many things could have been said, but due to limits of space and attention span of chowkies, had to left unsaid.

re: dost-mittar # 60

My reasons for stating those observations was, because I seem to moving more towards political populalism and to me, from that vantage point, democracy as it exists in the United States and much of the western world is flawed.

Democracy is the idea that majority of the people decide, but where is that decision when the issues are decided by representives representing people? This is has been a painful process, because I am coming to the realization that democracy - effective democracy - can only be attained when we get rid of the ``middle wo/men`` in the electoral process. Let me explain. The legislators should debate and frame the issues, but they cannot decide on them and make policy. That choice is for the people. The people should be presented with the debate and allowed to settle the issue.

I am leaning towards the system of Swiss styled political process; settle issues with referandums in which a simple majority wins. This will side line the special interest groups and will, empower the people politically. If the idea behind democracy is to empower the people, it does not. The present system is in fact against democracy, because it is more timocratic. Money and wealth should not be the qualification for public office!

In this, I agree with you in the sense that this idea goes beyond the grass roots level; it goes directly into the soil of democracy!

As to CC, it will not oppose Bush as long as Bush supports the Isreali version and the minute Bush seeks to rein in Tel Aviv, you will see a reaction!

Hope this clarifies!

Ciao

hamidm...hehe! that was hilarious....

but seriously i think the shalwar kameez is a VERY elegant form of dress for both men and women. A clean and crispy white shalwar kameez with a black chadar thrown partially over the shoulder..looks cool and sophisticated..AND is very comfortable If one then adds a green imamah to the outfit too...perfection!

As for Pakistani women in elegant ladies` shalwar kameez--they look amazing! Shalwar Kameez is chic and much more attractive than the sari...

Having pride in one`s national dress is important...! Heck I am in the UK but I **sometimes** wear my shalwar kameez and imamah to university....

ofcourse the dress must be clean and ironed...

...

***

re: dost-mittar

{You have pointed out to the hold of the christian coalition on the republican party, yet you have noticed that this coalition has not been able to stop Bush from following a middle east policy against its beliefs, and if it fails in the end, it will be for reasons other than the Christian right. }

...the christian coalition has forced anti-abortion laws, got bush to funnel federal tax money to religious charities (illegal), and is fighting programs to distribute condoms and needles that can prevent the spread of HIV...worst of all, bush seeks divine help in making national security decisions...if a nuclear bomb is headed our way, i don`t want bush on his knees asking jesus what to do...i`d rather have clinton`s brain at work and on the phone...

rsaxena

..........been to shanghai lately? ...... since you mentioned gucci, shanghai is one of the few cities that has two, not one, gucci stores - check out the new one in shanghai times square on huai hai zhong road.......... and the surprising thing is that these stores are packed with chinese women with perfect teeth and cash to spend ............

......... the chinese transformation over the last ten years has been nothing short of miraculous ......... sure they still have a lot of peasents with bad teeth but they all seem to have a chicken in the pot and a color tv......... as my friend raj kanthadi says, `` indians need to stop comparing themselves to china, there is no comparison - they fall in diametrically opposite quadrants on any two by two`` ........... and if you don`t believe raj, walk down the hall and talk to anyone who has done a gig in shanghai or guangzhou ............shanghai is the only place left on earth where clients don`t quibble over consulting fees, you are always walking distance from a starbucks, has a maglev train that goes at 270 mph and, according to zubin metha (another indian), has a symphony orchestra that will give the tin band in new york a run for the money............

............ anyway, let`s not waste our time worrying about the chinese .............so what if they had $54B in fdi last year and we had less than 500M (the horrible hindoos scrounged up 4.3B) ........we dont believe in all this fdi and globalization crap and, in any case, we have better things to do, like fighting over kashmir, digging for ancient temples under ancient mosques and making sure people pray five times a day .............

hamidm2 # 52 - on your good post (write a full fledged article on it)

When Benazir was being elected Prime Minister the first time, the Pathans had this objection `` Khanaa ... How can she be the Prime Minister ... She has to take off her Shalwar even for the small pee.``

#52 hamidm2
i really enjoyed your post.you have good sense of humor.

ferozk#48
I am in unchartered territory in defending the U.S. On Chowk, I have consistently and strongly criticised U.S interventions abroad whether it was in Kosovo, Afghanistan or Iraq. But that was in regard to its external policies; wrt internal matters, despite some of the valid points you make and despite my own misgivings about the republicans on many socio-economic matters, I have a hard time agreeing that it is not a secular democracy.
First, the secular part. Well, being an agnostic, I always had a problem with ``In God we trust`` bit, but I don`t think that`s your problem! Yes, evangelicals are busy doing their thing on tv and in shopping malls, but so are various other religious groups - sunnis, shias, ahmedis, hindus, sikhs, hare-krishnas and anyone else you can think of. The U.S is allowing muslims to convert Americans at an amazing rate despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of its citizens regard that religion to be its enemy number one now.
As for democracy, I agree that money has become a very important factor in the U.S democracy. But as a true democracy, Americans are quite aware of its evil consequences and I am certain that the legislators will take some action to mitigate its effect on the body-politic of America. Moreover, a true democracy is more than elections, as you have yourself pointed out. True democracy in America exists in its grassroots and its institutions and I don`t see any weakening there.
You have pointed out to the hold of the christian coalition on the republican party, yet you have noticed that this coalition has not been able to stop Bush from following a middle east policy against its beliefs, and if it fails in the end, it will be for reasons other than the Christian right. And the U.S media can be accused of many sins but championing of christian right wont be one of them.

hamidm dada, pls don`t compare japan and china...or tokyo and shanghai...or god help, the women of tokyo with those of shanghai...the avg. chinese woman still runs around with discolored teeth and a lampshade on her head...she cannot afford much at gucci in comparison to her japanese counterpart whose average income is several times higher...

...i know pakis have a thing for china, but let`s not get carried away....

there is no harm wearing different dresses,provided these are according to occassion.it remins me a joke.
a woman was roaming naked in thestreet,she was arrested and prosecuted.
judge ask her :``how much load you have to take daily?
she replied:i have 7 kids.
judge set her free by saying what more you expect from a mother of seven.

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``Pakistan will never progress as long as we are determined to bury our heads in the sand and pretend that we do not see the danger``, Ferzok, the answer is right there, there is progress as long as the head is in the sands of arabia.
Pakistan has made tremendous prograess. It was only a few months ago you all used to declare that there are only 3 percent extremists, religious parties ecured on 3 seats. Now they are in the ruling coalition, the identity of pakistan is emerging from the barren hills of NWFP. The sheria law, that should have been in force at the stroke of midnight, is at last creeping up, province by province. Third in command of alquida was found in the house of a pak army major, at last there is convergence in the pak society, military and the mullahs are one with the people.
When blasphemy law deaths entences are not carried out, the people of pakistan are rising to the occasion to enforce it. There is tremendous social movement in pakistan, which the western schooled ones like you are refusing to accept, the movement os towards jihadic islam. It is time that you read the writings on the roads of karachi, marked out by the dead bodies, jihadic republic of pakistan is at the door steps.