The Follies of the Natives

F.R.Khan: are you of Mohajjir persuassion in the biblical kind.

Your kind ,the Mohajir, who failed to defend the Kingdom of Oudh when Delhi was falling; the haves and have nots of Lucknow were busy flying the ``Tukul`` and ``Guddi` whilst the majority of East Indian Army was beseiged in Residency. And you the Mohajirs come to Pakistan, assisted by the militants of Bihar, and try to assert yourself as a force to reckon with, while you and you forefathers aided and abetted the East Indian Company to overrun the Kingdom of Oudh and Delhi..yet you claim your moral superiority when you land in Punjab and Sind , lands predominantly, headed by Aryans, Jats and Gujjars and not by the Sayyeds, and the Darvadians who had fled thousands of years ago

Hi Feroz

good article:) i feel the frustration too!

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An excellent overview of the role of politicians, military, Islam and judiciary in creating the quagmire, thinking Pakistanis find themselves in. However, resilience of the people of the region called Pakistan now is grossly understimated because their potentials have been undermined temporarily by the overlordships of rodents magnified as sacred cows.

it is inherent in the nature of politicians, military and Islam to be on the offensive for defensive and survival purposes. None of these pillars can be in defensive mode for their defense becuase of the fear of exposition of weaknesses built in them. The weaknesses are so true that no chowk interactor has ever been able to challenge them when brought about by hamidm or somebody else. All they can do is to relegate to personal attack and verbal abuse or filabuster with useless unrelated material obtained from sifting through heap of electronic garbage.

In a strange way, I feel the last thirty years of Pakistan had expedited the coming demise of military-bureaucracy-judiaciary-feudal politics-Islam nexus. The pillars without foundations can not stand forever and permanent offensive mode is consuming them faster than under natural circumstances. Like bacteria, they proliferate and then consume each other. The process of consuming their own for survival and clash among the components of the nexus is just begining. The process would be bloody, bad for Pakistan and bad for economy, yet better than worst possible outcome of going Pakistan to dogs or Talibans.

Pakistan might have to go a harsh phase of authoritative communism to get out of stranglehold of elite groups. Mark my words. Just wait and see. I give you a clue. It will start with massacres of large mumber of people from one elite group - the weakest of the elite group. My second clue is: plot mumber of Pakistanis going to hajj each year. Once it starts declining, begining of the end of current elite groups is begining.

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FR Khan:
Will you respond to the following?

Your frustration beats around the bush. You should have pointed out the real problem with Pakistan.

I am from India and I assert that Pakistan would never ``progress`` till it declares it self as a true democracy. The quintessential element of ANY democracy IS SECULARISM.

It is this fundamental premise of civilized existence that is not fulfilled by Pakistan. Hence, all the missteps which are documented by you, are recorded history and I completely concur with you.

BUT YOU NEED TO SEPARATE RATIONAL ANALYSIS FROM EMOTIONAL OUTBURST.

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Tipu #7
Tipu # 8

`` Is USA Secular ?

It does not say in the constitution.......

If you like USA without SECULAR ``

The US constitution clearly states the government shall favor no religion over the other. Even supporters of school prayer will not dispute this. There is debate over which how much seperation there should be between the state and religion.

`` What adding SECULAR word to India will do ...like naming Taj Mahal to Tejo MAHAL???? ``

Adding the words secular, republic, socialist, Islamic mean nothing.
I hate to tell you that you can have massacares like Gujarat and still be secular. Hwoever it would not be a society with the rule of law.

I think our problem lies in our crisis for identity.

We have to realize that we are a part of greater South Asia (India).

Our roots do not lie in the Arab world or in that fuzzy concept of Muslim world.

Our (specifically military & Mulla) all attemps to malign India as our enemy have failed. A common man still has no enmity towards India and wishes to interact with India.

And finally, as Inquirer pointed out in Post # 6, Democarcy is secular. Let us not adultrate this concept by binding our constitution under the Quran & Sunnah.

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re: nadeemkhan # 1

FYI, I was born in Lahore in 1965. I am a Pakistani first and everything else second. This article is not about the ancestry of my forefathers, but about my right to question my leaders and hold them accountable! Do not confuse the issues! I have no notions of moral superiority, but I do question those, who claim it as a pre-condition to represent and govern over me!

FYI, my ancestors lost their lives after the war of 1857, when they were blasted from the mouths of the British cannons and, hang and dropped into lime pits, while the genteel British ladies shaded under their parasols applauded!

If you wish to live in a world of ethnicity, then please do, but realize that you will never have a nation as a result of such believes; only ghettos of ethnic anger, rancour echoing with cries of a misguided revenge!

Ciao

Become Buddhists for a few generations, and all your problems will be solved. You will also get Richard Gere free-of-charge and a new land route from Murree to Shimla via Dharamshala.

Identity.

It is such a fickle subject. I am of the opinon that `crisis of identity` are as abstract as the concepts of identity itself. abstract in a very irrelevant way. they can motivate one just as strongly as they can lead one to persecute another. in the end, it is not worth trying to compartmentalize humans into groups.

As far as Pakistan is concerned, Pakistan`s only problem is lack of free institutions. Those can be the only real and practical and dependable safeguard to fascist tendencies. At this point, though I despise seeing what the MMA is doing, I despise even more Musharaf- the champion killer of insitutions today- claiming that `Talibanization is not for Pakistan`.

ferozk #13 ``my ancestors lost their lives after the war of 1857, when they were blasted from the mouths of the British cannons``

How many of your ancestors thus lost their lives?

I await the day when I run into someone on chowk whose ancestors did not introduce a new religion, did not belong to the prophet`s tribe, did not rule as rajas or emperors, did not have Alexander the Great as their ancestor, or did not fight at the forefront against the Brits in 1857.

My poor ancestors only tilled the soil all these centuries I am sure...I guess SOMEONE has to do that too...it must have been terribly lonely for them ploughing the field all day long, being it seems the only farmers in all of the sub-continent who lived ordinary lives and died quietly in bed at home rather than in a blaze of glory. I guess someone had to produce the wheat needed by all these brave soldiers and profound sufis who seem to have formed the remainder of the population of the subcontinent. And the only one left to do that would have been my humble ancestors. Also I guess someone also had turn the wheat into chappatis before the above-mentioned great men, and the only ones left would again have been my poor naani`s naanis.

And all these centuries the entire remaining population of the subcontinent was having fun in their palaces producing rajputs, or in Badshahi mosque introducing Islam in the subcontinent, or making history on the battlefield or bravely dying at the wrong end of the cannons while sweet victorian ladies looked on from under their parasols. ;-)

I greatly admire the intellectual honesty of Nazarhayatkhan and ferozk. I am afraid that ferozk`s all-dominant attachment to the idea of Pakistan is also at the root of personal and national discombobulation in ferozk and Pakistan. Khan sahab with a nazar on the reality of hayat has provided a most wise statement. Please pardon me for the facetious element in the last sentence.

I thank bbabu for the kind support. But in response to veeresh suggest that Hindus should not glory in the plight of Muslims. There are many an Achilles Heels that they too have to cure/adjust to. They need to remember the lessons that Mahatma Gandhi, Pandit Nehru and Indira Gandhi taught and be in conformance with the higher elements of theory and practice of the Hindu faith. They have to avoid the trap of seeking the ``old glorious times.``

Above all, we all have to avoid the din from likes of Tipu whose solution to all problems is to mix up the situation so no one would know what the real problem is!! I admit some of the din from Tipu personally is due to the use of an unfamiliar language but that does not make it anymore acceptable.