The Follies of the Natives

re: dost-mittar

{You have pointed out to the hold of the christian coalition on the republican party, yet you have noticed that this coalition has not been able to stop Bush from following a middle east policy against its beliefs, and if it fails in the end, it will be for reasons other than the Christian right. }

...the christian coalition has forced anti-abortion laws, got bush to funnel federal tax money to religious charities (illegal), and is fighting programs to distribute condoms and needles that can prevent the spread of HIV...worst of all, bush seeks divine help in making national security decisions...if a nuclear bomb is headed our way, i don`t want bush on his knees asking jesus what to do...i`d rather have clinton`s brain at work and on the phone...

hamidm...hehe! that was hilarious....

but seriously i think the shalwar kameez is a VERY elegant form of dress for both men and women. A clean and crispy white shalwar kameez with a black chadar thrown partially over the shoulder..looks cool and sophisticated..AND is very comfortable If one then adds a green imamah to the outfit too...perfection!

As for Pakistani women in elegant ladies` shalwar kameez--they look amazing! Shalwar Kameez is chic and much more attractive than the sari...

Having pride in one`s national dress is important...! Heck I am in the UK but I **sometimes** wear my shalwar kameez and imamah to university....

ofcourse the dress must be clean and ironed...

...

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re: SR # 51

Well said!

I think that Temporal and I had decided on the envitable some time back in 1999, when T posted an interact suggesting that whole structure needs to kicked down and re-constructed. You will have no agruments from me on this idea.

SR, this article is, when you think about it, really incomplete. In the sense, it was more a cry of the heart than an attempt at analysis. Many things could have been said, but due to limits of space and attention span of chowkies, had to left unsaid.

re: dost-mittar # 60

My reasons for stating those observations was, because I seem to moving more towards political populalism and to me, from that vantage point, democracy as it exists in the United States and much of the western world is flawed.

Democracy is the idea that majority of the people decide, but where is that decision when the issues are decided by representives representing people? This is has been a painful process, because I am coming to the realization that democracy - effective democracy - can only be attained when we get rid of the ``middle wo/men`` in the electoral process. Let me explain. The legislators should debate and frame the issues, but they cannot decide on them and make policy. That choice is for the people. The people should be presented with the debate and allowed to settle the issue.

I am leaning towards the system of Swiss styled political process; settle issues with referandums in which a simple majority wins. This will side line the special interest groups and will, empower the people politically. If the idea behind democracy is to empower the people, it does not. The present system is in fact against democracy, because it is more timocratic. Money and wealth should not be the qualification for public office!

In this, I agree with you in the sense that this idea goes beyond the grass roots level; it goes directly into the soil of democracy!

As to CC, it will not oppose Bush as long as Bush supports the Isreali version and the minute Bush seeks to rein in Tel Aviv, you will see a reaction!

Hope this clarifies!

Ciao

hamidm: while we are tossing numbers around ($54b fdi for China, $4.3b India, $0.5b Pakistan) let me toss one more in: $500b for US. And this was after dot com: in 2000 it was $1t (as in trillion). Make these numbers per capita and the difference between South Asia vs. China vs. US becomes even more striking.

re: hamidm

{and the surprising thing is that these stores are packed with chinese women with perfect teeth and cash to spend ............ }

...yes, and come to africa with me and in every capital i can find you a high-end boutique with a pack of even better looking women and more cash to spend....while elsewhere in the country tribes hack each other to death over the village`s last piece of bread...

....is this the type of analytical thinking you learnt in management consulting?...tsk tsk...must be from accenture or something....

hamidam dada,

.....you are losing it....your obsession with india is as bad as that of naqshabandis and urstrulys who you love to mock...


....i talked about your comparison of china and japan...expectedly, you couldn`t stand it and dragged india in to divert attention...tsk tsk...i thought you were smarter than that...seriously....no one is denying china has outpaced india....

...can you calculate for me how many chaptas can buy a sock at gucci with their $900/year average income?....(yes, more sock than an indian can, but that`s beside the point)....now do you know how much an average japanese with his/her $35,000/year income can buy?...sniff some heeng if it helps....

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rsaxena,

......... if you remember, it was you who brought up the paki obsession with china .......... the whole world is obsessed with china (with the exception of india, of course!).......... it might be my imagination, but it seems that indians seem to be rather prickly whenever someone mentions china .......... it is not unlike the muslims, who get all wound up whenever somone mentions the progress made by western civilization and start ranting and raving about the decadence of the west ......... little boys never outgrow p%ni$-envy!

......... and accenture is not a ``real`` management consulting company - don`t let them fool you!


tahmed,

... you are right, the us still ranks #1 in fdi but according to a ``real`` consulting firm, ``for the first time in five years, China overtook the U.S. as the most attractive foreign investment destination`` :

http://www.atkearney.com/main.taf?p=5,3,1,51..............

.... but i was talking about the trend ............ a lot of us have been saying that no one can sustain a double digit growth year after year, but the chinese keep on proving us wrong ........ who knows, like the japanese, they might come to a screeching halt, but for now they look unstoppable .........

...... but why are talking about china?......... let`s go back to discussing the merits of swiss style democracy ........ i can`t believe ferozk !............. we should be talking about how to get the water buffaloes off the streets instead of discussing the evils of campaign financing in the us !......... i am equally guilty - an educated desi is a moron (not an oxymoron, just a moron).................

hamidm,


....please tell us: how many socks can a chapta buy at gucci off his $900/year average income compared to a japanese with his $35,000/year income?....very simple question, isn`t it....even a mckinsey secretary can answer that one...

{and accenture is not a ``real`` management consulting company }

...exactly, that`s why you should quit...it is like working for charles schwab and calling yourself an investment banker....

...and since when did atkearney become a ``real management`` consulting firm?...the rejects from mckinsey and bain go there....anyway, if china overtook the US, why is it attracting so much less FDI?...

Stop this irrelevent divergence and hamidm: you promised yesterday a post about women pajamas.....nazarhayatkhan is on hunger strike and naqshbandi standing in the icy waters on one foot in the foothills of himalaya doing chilla,,,,,only to reads about it.

The thread has been hijacked by imbiciles and hindus, just as I was thinking of interacting. laholwilla quwat illa billa.

re: ustruly

{laholwilla quwat illa billa}

..yeah, may you find a sweet man to satisfy your needs too

sameerjb,

sorry for the digression with young rsaxena - we will continue with his education some other time ........

.......... now, i am sure urstruly has to elabortate on his views on why desi women in north america have to make a spectacle out of themselves by dressing up in saris and shalwar kameez ...... i am sure he will talk about modesty and cultural heritage, and in the same breath also talk about freedom of expression, multiculturalism, democracy and the decadence of the west ............. what really bothers me is when some of these women put on shiny white sneakers (joggers) under their sari or pajama and go for a stroll in manhattan ........the only thing worse than this is when brothers line up in central park and put on a show for maghrib prayers .............. what if the guys from papua new guinea decided to take off their clothes, stick a bone through their nose, and roast a human head in central park ?..........it is their culture ........

urstruly - over to you ..........

Thanks hamidm. I look forward to reading more.

FerozK:
``It is a circus called Pakistan`` does not describe quite well the gist of your article. It is a circus in Pakistan where public is watching or not watching from outside but the people participating could not be more happy. Where else in the world, a 22 grade general ends up as much grab of residential land as in Pakistan plus other several benefits. The mullahs are prtty happy for the power through religion without contributing any taxes, without any skills to earn decent living, without having a business and without regular salaries. The feudals are happy in this circus because they can`t lose no matter what happens to Pakistan or government. Bureaucracy can`t lose because they actually run the system. America can not lose when Shaukat Aziz asks for 1.5 billion dollars to offset the loss to Pakistan by joining anti-terror campaign while according to Centcom own website, cost to Pakistan was around 10 billion dollars. India can`t lose because they have already seen his talent in Kargil. BB and NS can`t lose becuase, like us, they are sitting abroad. People of Pakistan are the sole loser and through that state of Pakistan. Why should any of them do anything for Pakistan when they have no stake in success and majority stake in case of losing.

If tomorrow they stand up against the circus, I don`t think we have any moral right to tell them not to do it. If state fails to protect poor, women and minorities, shouldn`t they be vigilant and producing vigilantis?

re:#61 by rsaxena
I used to work with chinese in a ChinaTown Clinic in New York. As a pediatrician (before i became a neonatologist), i had to work in that clinic once a week.
Chinese are friendly people and very proud of their achievements. But in US, we Indians outclass them anytime of day or night! In years to come, India will outclass China. Indians have to patiently build on the great legacy of democracy, secularism and now, free market. If India becomes a knowledge based economy (which it is fast becoming), the gains will be permanent, since knowledge is both permanent and something to build on.
Sridhar

re: rsridhar

...china as a country has outdone india over the past 10 years...that is quite clear..my problem was with comparing to japan or europe....

...in the US, indians may have done better but how does it help india?....indians are greedy and corrupt...they all take their government subsidized IIT degrees and run off, rarely ever looking back at their country....the chinese are much smarter in that regard....much of the foreign capital flowing into china is from chinese living overseas...there is something to learn from them...