The Truth About Karachi

Nusli Wadia, Jinnah`s heir, is slated to become a Rajya Sabha MP in India.

HotAir #156

If even educated pakis have such crude and openly racist ideas about
economic development, no wonder their jihadi cousins believe that
killing kafirs is the way to go.

[quote]
After recognizing Israel, Pakistan should tell Sharon to cut the crap and give the Palestinians their state. And it should tell Sharon to tell his American Jewish buddies to set up a few Nike plants, a few Dell plants, some more Oracle educational centers, a few Starbucks and some Intel plants in Pakistan. I have a strange feeling Sharon would agree......
[end-quote]

You really think that this is the manner international capitalism operates? Are you under the delusion that the (modest) progress made by the indians came about in this manner? That sucking up to this or that powerful group makes all the difference??? Maybe this is what you have been taught by your barbarian arab masters...

If so, you are much bigger fool than I thought you were. You clearly have no awareness of the indian technology institutes (founded in the 50`s and 60`s), the hundreds and then thousands of indians who worked in the US and, who one company at a time, made people aware of the strength and depth of the indian workforce.

I recently spoke with a (non-indian) manager who handles our InfoSys relationship. In discussing their work he made no reference to their ethnicity or country of origin. What he did say was that in two years of working with them, there has not been a single case where he has had to re-open an engineering issue that they had closed. And that while admittedly the off-shore work was of less complexity than work done locally, that he wished the same was true in other parts of the company.

That, my clue-less friend, is what makes the real difference.....

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Romair #133

`` What you have stated may actually be true (or it may be untrue). But all said and done, there are two facts that cannot be altered: a) We (specifically the people whose kids migrated to Karachi) did rule over you guys for 800 years. And right when you could have gotten a chance to rule over us, we wisely separated. b) We (not including the ones in Karachi) are better looking than you guys. ``

Muslim dominance ended in 1707. Mughal emperors were puppets in the hands of Maratha rules for a century. Muslims did not rule all of India for 800 years. Muslims never ruled most of Tamilnadu, Kerala, AP (outside of Hyderabad), Bengal/Bihar (post 1757), Punjab/Gujarat/Deccan (after 1707).

What is this thing about ruling others ? How about trying to rule yourself ?

`` And remember again, Karachi did gift you your future Prime Minister, the great Indian leader and role-model, Mr. Advani. ``

That was a nice gift Indian Muslims appreciate.

ahmadzai #142

`` Pakistan was invited much before India. Recent Turkish PM visit was also to coordinate Pakistan`s army entrance to Northern Iraq. This has been going on for last 2 months now. Pakistan is waiting for a go ahead signal from UN.

In the meantime, General Yousuf, Pakistan COA has today confirmed his agreement saying that army is ready to leave for Iraq any time Government gives it a go ahead signal. ``

Why are beggars so eager to do things ? Pakistani army cannot finance the deployment or provide the logistics of a division to Iraq. If Sunni Muslims mounts car bomb or sniper attacks on Pakistani troops Pakistani troops would be cursing their government for putting them in a god far saken place.

Tahmed #126

{{ You blame pakistan 100 percent for kashmir. There are many pakistanis who blame india 100 percent for kashmir. Kashmiris curse both countries (see quote from WSJ article).}}

Your summaries of other peoples’ opinions are notoriously inaccurate. You see only what you want to see. I wrote that the current violent insurgency in Kashmir is overwhelmingly supported and trained by Pakistan and in recent times has also largely been manned by Pakistanis rather than indigenous Kashmiris. I believe that is fairly well-supported by multiple sources (though unacceptable to the Pakistani dominant discourse). I also stated that the justification advanced for secession by Kashmiri Muslims is essentially the same as that articulated to justify the creation of Pakistan – an opinion which you may choose to reject.

Blaming any one entity 100% for a complex situation makes little sense. My post #111 employed a blandly matter-of-fact tone rather than a moralising one, which nuance may have escaped you given that it does not appear to be your preferred style. I am disinclined to deliver sanctimonious sermons. I’m more interested in finding explanations for why agents act as they do in order to predict their future behaviour.

India is no stranger to local unrest, small-scale insurgencies and fancifully named ‘liberation’ movements. The standard treatment to such ailments has generally taken the form of more or better democracy, i.e. democratic participation by disaffected groups who felt that they had previously been denied a voice. In fact, unrest often (though not always) arises precisely because of abuses of the democratic system. The most common of these – in the period of Indira Gandhi’s rule - was the dismissal of state governments under Article 356 of the constitution after engineered defections. The situation of Jammu and Kashmir was complicated by other factors. Because Sheikh Abdullah’s National Conference was resolutely non-sectarian and pro-India, the Central Government chose to overlook autocratic behaviour by the Sheikh and some of his associates, which stifled free expression and the growth of a viable democratic opposition in the state. This combination of shenanigans by the Central Government and chicanery by prominent Kashmir state politicians caused quite justified anger in a Kashmir populace which in the meanwhile was becoming better educated, more connected with mass media, and consequently more politically mobilized. These were some of the factors that led to the initial outbreak of violence in Kashmir in 1988-1989 and had little directly to do with Pakistan. Incidentally, they had little directly to do with the BJP either – a fact that you would do well to internalize.

The Kashmir unrest of course provided the Pakistani regime – fresh from it’s alleged ‘victory’ over the Soviets in Afghanistan - with an ‘opportunity’ that it lacked the wisdom or conviction or good sense to resist. Given the manner in which the Pakistani polity appears to have been oriented around the idea of conflict with India, I see no painless way it can disentangle itself from its involvement in the Kashmir imbroglio.

Tahmed #126

{{ I consider the pakistan government`s policy of supporting violence in kashmir is as bad as the indian government`s policy of treating kashmir as if it is just another province like UP or Bihar.}}

First of all, the state of Jammu and Kashmir continues to possess a special constitutional status within the Indian union, so your statement is poorly-founded.

Second, it can be inferred that you do not feel Jammu and Kashmir should be treated as just another Indian state. If one ignores Pakistani irredentist claims, I believe this position to be indefensible. A case can be made that the seeds of political dysfunction in J&K were sown precisely because of its special treatment, which allowed the autocratic behaviour of Sheikh Abdullah and his clique to persist unchecked and prevented a healthy political culture from emerging. Article 370 of the Indian Constitution, by preventing the sale of state land to non-residents hindered economic and cultural integration with the rest of the country. Further, the Kashmir Valley has historically hogged a disproportionate fraction of state development funds while Jammu, Kargil, and Leh, all of which have populations overwhelmingly loyal to India, have been given step-motherly treatment. Special status for J&K allowed these unhealthy conditions to persist to the detriment of the common resident of the state, the common citizen of India, and all but a small coterie of politicians.

Third, there is a difference of degree – apparent to me, at any rate – between making political decisions expedient in the short term but unwise in the long term, as the Indian establishment may on occasion have done, and sending trained freelance murderers to kill Indians, as the Pakistani state does on a daily basis. This distinction may not be evident to you.

{{ You talk about making ``mince meat`` of the muslim fighters and you talk of ``a few hundred indian soldiers killed every year`` as if these lives were dispensable. I hope one day you will learn to respect human life more. }}

Coming from you, that is an utterly predictable response. First, these ‘Muslim fighters’ are overwhelmingly Pakistani. They have been trained, armed and sent into Indian Kashmir with the express purpose of killing Indian soldiers and those loyal to the Indian state, and of disrupting the workings of a democratic government. They do not merit any of the protections – generous in theory, less satisfactory in practice – given by the Indian state to law-abiding citizens and all those who have not made war on the state. They are not even the accredited uniformed combatants of a regular army. Why should they not be given the summary treatment meted out by armies to spies and saboteurs in accordance with the general usages of war?

Second, if there is any entity that considers these people as dispensable jihadic fodder, it is the Pakistani establishment. That is a fact that you seem chronically unwilling to confront.

Third, Indians at large hold their army in high regard and therefore consider the lives of their own soldiers as valuable. That is one of the reasons why the Kargil War engendered such a violent reaction among Indians.

Fourth, you object to my intentional use of the graphic ‘mince meat’. Converting living beings – Pakistani jihadis - into dead meat is the unpleasant duty that the Indian Army is called upon to do on a daily basis. Using euphemisms such as ‘liquidate’ makes no difference to the reality. If the reality bothers you, consider directing your wrath at the supply side of the jihad pipeline.

Tahmed #129

{{As for the 700,000 number - I admit I did not go and count every indian soldier myself. I got this number from what I read. Do you know better? Or do you just assume that this number cant be right?}}

The 700,000 number is the standard figure quoted in Pakistani discourse – and nowhere else, except, perhaps, when it has been picked up from a Pakistani source. The Pakistani establishment is hardly a disinterested observer, which fact in itself ought to warn you. The very same establishment used to bandy around numbers - rapidly increasing - for the number of ‘Kashmiris killed by Indian security forces’, ‘women raped’, etc., without any indication of what the breakdown of said figures might be, or how the tally was kept and the total arrived at.

An assessment in Jane’s Intelligence Review some years ago placed the number of security personnel – Army, BSF, CRPF, Rashtriya Rifles, etc, deployed in the Kashmir valley at about 400,000. There are of course Army deployments throughout the state, from Jammu to Siachen to Leh, that are obviously not tasked with counter-insurgency duties. The total strength of the Indian Army is

{{ and I am not interested in starting an argument over kashmir (there are enough people willing to do that).}}

And yet you make wild statements, factually incorrect and generally indefensible, which more or less ensure that an argument will ensue.

{{ This avalanche of posts i have received from all your superpatriotic indians was started by my pointing out an obvious logical flaw in what rsridhar wrote. my mistake}}

Have you considered that the questionable content and characteristic tenor of your response might possibly have had something to do with the reaction it generated?

Romair #156

`` Pakistan should recognize Israel, within the 67 borders, with or without a Palestinian state. Pakistan should continue highlighting the human rights violations of Israel, however, after the recognition.

I have yet to figure out why Pakistan does not recognize Israel. ``

Because Pakistani government needs cheap concessional Saudi oil. Got to kiss some ass for it !!!

`` If unity with Arabs is the idea, then Pakistan should realize that Jordan, Morroco and Egypt recognize Israel. They don`t seem too concerned about Arab unity. ``

Add Qatar to the list

`` During the recent threats and troop pile-ups from India, how many Arab nations came to Pakistan`s help? The Palestinians actually sent a delegation to Vajpayee, while India had its troops piled up. How many times has Yasir Arafat visited Pakistan, or raised the Kashmir issue? I have never heard him. Arabs, even poor Arabs, couldn`t care one way or the other about Pakistan. They only thing they want is the, ``Islamic bomb.`` ``

It is not fair to blame Arafat. To be fair Pakistan was kissing upto USA ass during the cold war. Guess who is Israel`s prime benefactor.

`` I don`t know why Pakistanis are obsessed with fighting other people`s wars, if others aren`t helping in Pakistan`s wars. India recognized Israel in 92. Didn`t harm it much in the Arab countries. ``

China does recognize Israel too

`` Israel would love to have Pakistan recognize it. Pakistan is the only Muslim country which can counter Israel, militarily. Israel can beat up on the Arabs anytime it wants. This is from the horse`s mouth. And Israel is dead scared of Pakistani nukes ending up with Arabs. ``

Israeli army would thrash the Pakistani army in a conventional duel. They have fewer infantry than Indian army but make up the difference with a much more potent armour corps and air force.

`` Musharraf is now much better known in the US than Vajpayee. In four days, he has meetings with four world leaders (Blair, Bush, Chirac, and Schroeder). With one decision, after Sep 11, India`s decade of financing against Pakistan in USA went down the drain. By recognizing Israel, another decade of Indian planning will go down the drain. Such is the crucial position Pakistan enjoys in the current world politics, if it plays its cards correctly. ``

I am sure Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden have a even higher name recognition than Pervez Musharraf.

`` After recognizing Israel, Pakistan should tell Sharon to cut the crap and give the Palestinians their state. And it should tell Sharon to tell his American Jewish buddies to set up a few Nike plants, a few Dell plants, some more Oracle educational centers, a few Starbucks and some Intel plants in Pakistan. I have a strange feeling Sharon would agree...... ``

Dell, Oracle, Nike, Intel have shareholders to take orders from.

`` For those who don`t believe things can change so quickly, just remember, three years ago, no Western leader was to shake Musharraf`s hand. Now Musharraf is the first person they talk to when they fall down after chocking on a pretzel...... ``

I hope Musharraf and Pakistani diplomats do not have any grandiose delusions. I would hate to see you guys land in the flight path of B-52s. Or worse see a hot glow at night !!!

arjun_m #160

I always use to wonder when Indian auto parts makers would get their due. It is finally happening.

________________________________
Carmakers Around World Are Turning to India for Parts
By SARITHA RAI

ANGALORE, India, June 19 — The scramble by the recession-wounded global automotive industry to find a source for low-cost, high-quality components has been a big boon to India`s auto parts makers.

Among the rash of announcements just this month was one by the Delphi Corporation, the world`s largest automotive parts maker, saying that it would have $140 million worth of auto parts — forged engine parts, intricate plastic moldings and other products — made by Indian concerns, and that such orders were expected to exceed $250 million a year by 2007. The Ford Motor Company said that it expected to get more than $100 million worth of components from Indian parts makers in the next two years. Volvo said that it planned to increase its manufacturing in India to 100 million euros ($117 million) worth of parts in one year instead of three.

The demand has come even from China, a rival to India in low-cost manufacturing. And the orders are flowing throughout India`s auto parts industry, to subsidiaries of Ford, General Motors, Toyota Motor and other major carmakers; to global auto parts leaders like Delphi and Visteon; and to homegrown auto parts makers, including Bhart Forge and Hi-Tech Gears.

The flurry is spurring the industry to set ambitious targets.

Exports of auto parts are projected to reach $25 billion in 20 years, according to the Automotive Component Manufacturers Association of India. Already the exports, nearly two-thirds of which go to the United States and Europe, have risen to an estimated $800 million for the year ended March 31 from $578 million a year earlier — a 38 percent spurt.

While the current figure is less than a tenth of the amount India`s software exports bring in, investors in India`s stock markets are bidding up the prices of auto parts concerns in the belief that the industry holds as much promise.

The parts makers` success thus far has come in large part from two factors that have already helped make India`s software and support services industry successful: low labor costs and one of the world`s largest technologically adept work forces. Additionally, locally produced raw materials like rubber and steel are inexpensive.

``Big carmakers are under huge pressure to reduce costs,`` said Hans-Michael Huber, chief executive of DaimlerChrysler India. And purchasing specialists from the unit`s parent company, DaimlerChrysler A.G., are combing India for top-quality low-cost suppliers, he said.

The Toyota Motor Corporation is setting up its own auto parts unit on the outskirts of Bangalore with a $197 million investment to supply transmission systems to Toyota worldwide beginning in mid-2004. Toyota is also converting a textile machinery plant in another Bangalore suburb to produce auto parts.

Much of the outsourced business is going to a handful of the more than 400 local parts makers. For example, India`s leading auto components company by revenue, Bharat Forge, says its headquarters in Pune, southeast of Bombay, is being visited two or three times a week by delegations of product and supply experts from global carmakers.

Still, though India`s auto parts exports are growing robustly, they account for just a minuscule portion — less than 0.1 percent — of the $1 trillion world auto parts industry. They are small even compared with those of other low-cost manufacturing centers like Mexico and Brazil.

But India`s capabilities in a variety of manufacturing processes give it a competitive edge. ``The level of manufacturing industry here rivals that in most of the developed countries,`` said Kiyomichi Ito, managing director of Toyota`s new Bangalore-based unit, Toyota Kirloskar Auto Parts.

One sign of the new aggressiveness in the industry, as well as the many takers worldwide for its products, came in late May when the Automotive Component Manufacturers Association of India led a delegation of 33 domestic parts makers to the United States to meet with major manufacturers. Sundaram Clayton, Hi-Tech Gears, Shriram Pistons and Rings and Rico Auto Industries were among those represented.

``On earlier visits, we got the polite brush-off,`` said Arvind Kapur, managing director of Rico Auto. ``But this time we had more than a dozen buyers surrounding us everywhere we went. From Ford and General Motors in Detroit to Cummins in Columbus to Caterpillar in Peoria, we sensed a desperation to source from emerging markets.``

Rico Auto, based in Gurgaon, outside Delhi, sold $120 million worth of aluminum and ferrous engine and braking parts to G.M., Ford and other foreign customers last year.

When India opened its doors to foreign carmakers in the mid-1990`s, nearly all the global car companies entered the market through joint ventures with local companies. They set up vigorous quality processes and brought in global quality certifications. ``The local industry got tuned in to international needs, quality and logistics,`` Mr. Huber of DaimlerChrysler said.

Gradually, the bigger homegrown parts companies geared up to compete with the world`s best, alongside Indian subsidiaries of international parts leaders like Delphi and Visteon.

Vinay Piparsania, director of sales operations at Ford`s Indian unit, said, ``India`s small auto parts manufacturers are as much a success story as the country`s software industry.``

But as local manufacturers acknowledge, it has been a slow path to maturity, and some Indian companies are only beginning to emerge as reliable suppliers. ``We relentlessly pursued Ford and General Motors to source from our company,`` Mr. Kapur of Rico Auto said. ``In the case of General Motors, we had a breakthrough after seven years.``

With India`s credentials now more established, automakers like DaimlerChrysler are benefiting from the cost differential. ``Indian firms offer 20 to 25 percent cost reduction, and this gets automakers excited,`` said Deep Kapuria, chairman of Hi-Tech Gears, also based in Gurgaon. Customers for his company`s transmission gears and shafts include Cummins, the diesel engine maker, and Honda Motor.

Exports from India to DaimlerChrysler reached 63 million euros ($73.8 million) in 2002, up from 45 million euros in 2001. ``Granted, this is only 1 to 2 percent of my company`s total purchases worldwide, but the doors are now open and the most difficult part is over,`` Mr. Huber said.

DaimlerChrysler now buys forgings in Pune in western India, wiring harnesses in Gurgaon in north India and automotive software and electronics in Bangalore in the south. ``Auto parts exports to DaimlerChrysler should touch 100 million euros by 2005, conservatively speaking`` Mr. Huber said.

Still, the going may not be as easy as some parts makers believe.

Mr. Ito of Toyota said that the Indian legal system was not set up to uphold international business contracts, and that might hinder growth.

Then there is the fact that most of the 400-odd Indian auto parts firms are family-owned. While some have technology transfer relationships with Japanese and European automakers, many others have been slow to adapt to global business standards — some are still learning, for instance, that failing to honor their commitments can incur heavy penalties.

Competition from other southeast Asian countries like Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam and Malaysia is growing, and as in nearly every sphere of Indian exports, China is also an aggressive player.

As inexpensive car batteries from China flooded the Indian market a couple of years ago, nervous Indian car parts makers scurried to China to study the competition. But the Indians breathed easier when they found that while China had an edge in the lowest-cost work, it did not necessarily have an advantage further up the quality scale.

Some Indian parts makers even sniffed opportunity there, led by Bharat Forge. Forged and machined crankshafts shipped to China now account for one-quarter of the company`s $60 million in annual exports, up from nothing a year ago. ``In metal-intensive components where software-oriented design and engineering is involved and where technically skilled manpower is required for manufacturing, Bharat Forge offers an advantage in terms of both price and quality,`` said Baba Kalyani, the company`s chairman.

P. Balendran, a vice president for General Motors India, said that quality was central to India`s appeal. ``Qualitywise, India is better than Mexico, China, Taiwan or for that matter, Korea,`` he said, referring to South Korea. ``In terms of price, India is 15 percent cheaper than Mexico, 10 percent cheaper than Korea and at par with China and Taiwan.``

arjun_m #157

Delivery of 28 F-16 is not going to change military balance. I do not mind seeing Pakistani military blow another $1 billion down the tube. Too bad Pakistani citizens do not see the money

Tipu #170

`` Even Indian muslim with there handicapped position play role in insuring your safety without you paying any premium ..tooth less sher ..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)) ``

The best thing Indian Muslims can do is to stay out India-Pakistan feud and hope they do not fight another war.

Keep your stupid comments to yourself !!!

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My dear cousin,

{{Pakistan should recognize Israel, within the 67 borders, with or without a Palestinian state..}}

Whaaa??!!...
Hey! I just learnt something!...thanx!!
..the question is WHY hasnt Pakistan done so all this time; when so many muslim nations have?? ...

{{I have yet to figure out why Pakistan does not recognize Israel.}}

Yup; me too...
the ``scientific`` reason is-- the better ``looking`` the govt is...the slower it is on a mental uptake...

{{If Muslim unity is the criteria, then Pakistan should ask all Muslim nations to de-recognize any country Pakistan has an issue with.
I doubt they will agree...

..During the recent threats and troop pile-ups from India, how many Arab nations came to Pakistan`s help? The Palestinians actually sent a delegation to Vajpayee, while India had its troops piled up. How many times has Yasir Arafat visited Pakistan, or raised the Kashmir issue? I have never heard him. Arabs, even poor Arabs, couldn`t care one way or the other about Pakistan. They only thing they want is the, ``Islamic bomb.`` }}

you finally figured that out... all by yourself; hahn?!

{{Israel would love to have Pakistan recognize it. Pakistan is the only Muslim country which can counter Israel, militarily. Israel can beat up on the Arabs anytime it wants. This is from the horse`s mouth. And Israel is dead scared of Pakistani nukes ending up with Arabs.}}

Yo! brainiac....Arabs can buy the ``Islamic bomb`` from the godless N.Koreans or Russian mafiosi types..
one doesnt necessarily need glorious Pakistan for the bomb...esp when Pakis are being very very closely watched by CIA & Mossad agents... (like Danny Pearl)

{{Musharraf is now much better known in the US than Vajpayee. In four days, he has meetings with four world leaders (Blair, Bush, Chirac, and Schroeder).}}

HAHAHA!!
A willing WHORE is always WELL known!!
Its no secret that Mushy sleeps with the fundo ``freedom fighters`` AND goras AND Arabs with money..
Poor Vaju & Advani are too ugly to bend over & spread their cheeks for money...


{{With one decision, after Sep 11, India`s decade of financing against Pakistan in USA went down the drain. By recognizing Israel, another decade of Indian planning will go down the drain. Such is the crucial position Pakistan enjoys in the current world politics, if it plays its cards correctly.}}

CLASSIC example of the Polyanna Syndrome!!!
Allah has blessed the sacred govt of Pakistan with geography....
& your noble leader has a propensity to go to the highest bidder if the price is right..
but your military types are very classy whores...
they got HONOR...& Ish-STYLE!!

Israel will be soooo happy & relieved that Mushy`s Pakistan recognised them, that they will drop the 1.X billion dollar sale of weapons to the horrible hindooos. They will dismantle the close intelligence ties that India & Israel have developed over decades. They will drop trade links with a market that is far bigger than Pakistan & the potential to get much larger..

..& best of all- the powerful pro-Pakistan lobby in the US will make Congress appove another X billion dollar ``loan`` to Pakistan...which a future US President will magnanimously ``forgive``...for services rendered by your revered military...


{{After recognizing Israel, Pakistan should tell Sharon to cut the crap and give the Palestinians their state.}}

Ofcourse!!
..& Sharon will say ``Yes Sir!`` to Mushy...
``provided you bend over & drop your pants!...
I hear you have great ..er..cheeks!!``


{{And it should tell Sharon to tell his American Jewish buddies to set up a few Nike plants, a few Dell plants, some more Oracle educational centers, a few Starbucks and some Intel plants in Pakistan. I have a strange feeling Sharon would agree......}}

ABSOLUTELY!!!
They should build their headquarters in Karachi or Muzzafarbad---where they will be welcomed with the warmth & hospitality that Pakis are famous for...


{{For those who don`t believe things can change so quickly, just remember, three years ago, no Western leader was to shake Musharraf`s hand. Now Musharraf is the first person they talk to when they fall down after chocking on a pretzel.....}}

An Israeli resident physician once told me...
``the difference between a muslim & a jew is that Allah blesses muslims by putting a part of their brain (the part that deals with common sense) in their prepuce...
jews--alas-- have no such blessings``

Ofcourse; it goes without saying; a brahmin like me gave him a tahmed-esque lecture on how bad prejudice is.....him being a jew `an all..

With 22 yrs of expertise in clinical psychiatry, I must say YOUR brain is ``FUBAR``....
.

re: an Indian muslim view of Kashmir and Mushy

Url:
http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=311597

Here is an interesting article that goes to the crux of the problem. Every Indian muslim should pose this question to their Paki brothers: why do you want Kashmir?
Excerpts:
1. ``You say: `I am very clear on one thing. The people of Kashmir do not want to be part of India.` Then you also say: `Let me tell you that before Kargil, Kashmir was a dead issue.`

If the people of Kashmir do not want to be part of India and if you think `the Kashmir struggle` is indigenous then how did Kashmir become a dead issue, requiring the help of your mujahideen to make it come alive?``
(my note: ``you`` in the above para refers to Mushy. The author has demolished Mushy` s argument. He told Pranab Roy that Kargil was necessary as Kashmir was a dead issue prior to Kargil. The question is : why was it a dead issue? And why does Mushy the idiot think Kargil has jump-started this issue?)

2. ``In the same interview you admitted that your own referendum was a mistake and you also regretted that `Pakistan had failed to evolve a functional democracy.` How could a president -- who is not sure if the people of his country want him to be one or not -- possibly know the wishes of the Kashmiri people?
If democracy is not yet evolved in Pakistan, then how could Pakistan -- or its tin pot dictator -- judge the fairness of elections in the world`s largest functional democracy?``

(my note: WOW! There goes another one of famous arguments by Mushy and his ilk for a referendum. If he thinks his own referendum was a mistake, how can he question the Assembly elections which has been given a clean Chit by the world media?)

3. ``After more than fifty years of the creation of Pakistan, is there anything which remains to be seen? Jinnah`s concerns were the political rights of Muslims. Today the Muslims of Pakistan do not have any political rights, the Muslims of India do.

In the words of M J Akbar, one of our best political commentators, `The only Muslims in the world to enjoy sustained democratic liberty are not in Pakistan, but those who remained in India. Indian Muslims have had more problems than any one deserves, but they remain the only Muslims with guaranteed democratic rights. After the alienation of 1947 they have lifted themselves up and are becoming effective partners in the evolution of a nation state. This is, interestingly, what Jinnah wanted for Pakistan; a time when, in political sense, Muslims would cease to be Muslims and Hindus cease to be Hindus. That is happening in India instead, not because Indians are superior to Pakistanis, but because they have a superior political system. Pakistan`s Muslims have had only a fleeting feel of free will.` [The Shade of Swords, Roli Books, 2002]``.
(my note: Yes! Yes! I know what the Pakis in Chowk are thinking. How about Gujarat carnage? How about the Ayodhya issue? These issues do not take away the rights of the muslims in India. As i have always said, the fight in India is between secular elements and fundamentalists and not Hindu versus muslim)

4. ``Kashmiris have more chance for expressing their wishes in India than they would have in Pakistan. So if the wishes of Kashmiris -- or their political rights -- is the issue, Pakistan has no case.``


5. ``In 1965, Dr Rafiq Zakaria made a stirring speech in the UN General Assembly arguing India`s case on Kashmir on behalf of Indian Muslims. What was Pakistan`s response? It came in just four-and-a-half words. Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, then foreign minister of Pakistan, simply accused Dr Zakaria of being `a traitor to the Muslim cause` and walked out. [Rafiq Zakaria, The Widening Divide, Viking Penguin, 1995].

That is again laughably absurd. Dr Zakaria was speaking on behalf of Indian Muslims, so how could he be a traitor to the Muslim cause?

Pakistan thought so because it thinks it has exclusive rights on Allah. This argument is also the basis of Pakistan`s claim on Kashmir. But the facts do not support the basic argument. Any argument not supported by facts is no argument.``

6. ``Here is a fact: There are more than 150 million Muslims in India (the second largest Muslim population in the world), more than the Muslims in Pakistan. Less than 7 per cent of them are in Kashmir.
Pakistan may have been created in the name of Islam. India can`t and won`t be partitioned in the name of Islam any more. Indian Muslims will not allow that to happen.
To use Imam Bukhari`s words: `If the issue of Kashmir is decided on religious basis (in the name of Islam) then the wishes of all Indian Muslims should be taken into consideration and not those of Kashmiris alone.`

End of argument.``

A very convincing argument by a proud Indian muslim. Let us see how many Pakis in Chowk can counter this argument. And while you are at it, for God`s sake, do not bring in the question of referendum or religion into this. Just provide the answer to one simple queston: Why do Pakistanis think Kashmir should belong to them? Let us talk with logic and facts and not bring in religion. Let us not talk about what Kashmiris wish because very recently 45% of them cast their vote to elect a popular Govt and they did so under the threat of terrorists. Let us also not talk about Army atrocities in Kashmir. That argument falls flat in face of Paki atrocities against Ahmediyas, hindu and christian minorities. And in Pakistan, they are not facing any terrorists from these groups. In Kashmir, Army exists because terrorists exist.
So, let us have a logical argument about the reason why Kashmir should belong to Pak. Tamils in Srilanka have been humiliated, abused in the past by the Sinhala majority but no Tamilian in India today supports secession of Tamils from Srilanka even though this is a very emotive issue. Real or perceived atrocities are not reason enough for secession. In Srilanka, Tamil cause has been hijacked by LTTE which simply does not accept peaceful means of resolution and is dithering even today. Srilankan constitution provides avenues for peaceful resolution of the problem. LTTE will simply not listen or trust the Srilankan govt. But the Indian tamilians are not butting in to say that Tamils in srilanka need to secede. This is a problem between the Srilankan Tamils and their govt.
Kashmir problem is similarly between India and Kashmiris. Pakis have no reason even to be talking about Kashmir. When India is strong enough some day, India can tell Pakistani generals to go and fukc off.
I hope Mushy reads this article. Just like the terrorists who go to war thinking they will soon join 72 virgins and will realise after they are dead that they do not even have a dick, leave aside enjoying with virgins, Mushy the idiot will be left standing with his dick in his hand at the end of the day.
Sridhar

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