Haseena and Jannat (on earth)

that indeed is a sad picture but it is all to common in pakistan.
i just hope that someday women in our country become educated enuff to stand up for their rights without first going through all the torture ... b4 its too late.

Sad story, told well. I am shocked by the tolerance for violence in each of my annual pilgrimages to Pakistan.
Friends and family in Pakistan usually see my denouncement for this acceptance of violence as a sure sign of westernophilia.They tell me that the west`s ``problems``( Pakistanis seem keenly aware of those thanks to hours of mtv/hbo viewing) are certainly worse because kids are not hit often enough by their parents. How will the child ever respect the ``elders`` if they have not been hit by them? I am asked sincerely by people who have been educated way more than 16 ``jamaatain``.They tell me about battered women in America.
Presence of violence, and humankind`s desire to rule through violence is universal (exhibit A:the current Iraq invasion), however it`s acceptance at an individual level is what troubles me the most.
When a child is abused in a parking lot, the images are flashed all across America, and whether the system responds effectively or not, most people agree that its wrong. While women get battered all over America, when they repeatedly move in with the same abusive man who beat them up before, its not because its considered OK at a societal level. And if after reconciliation attempt#6, she decides to seek out a bettered women`s shelter, the police officer does not tell her to go home.
In the 1600`s west, there was metallic mask like device that women could forced to wear by law, as punishment for nagging their husband, that was the time when women in Islamic world could inherit from their parents, could divorce, had the right to child support...., so where did we take the U-turn?

ana, re #36
I tend to agree with you on that there seems to be a pervasive `victim complex` around especially in the West these days. On the other hand, I can agree with those who say that (in Pakistani society), the abused child becomes the abusing parent, and is a little less than completely culpable for his/her wrongs. Double standards? Contradiction? Not really... I think what makes all the difference is `awareness`. It is silly, IMHO, to try and explain one`s own errant behaviour as being a result of one`s past, since the moment you KNOW that you were wronged, you have the responsibility to ensure that you don`t do the same. Yes, it might be difficult, and yes, we are, to an extent, products of circumstance, but only to an extent.
It`s a little different when dealing with cases where, for whatever reasons, the abuse is perpetuated as a natural, socially acceptable, even desireable mode of behaviour. It`s shocking how much the human psyche can rationalize and justify, especially when power is involved. Wasn`t it one of the perportedly good guys who exhorted, ``Spare the rod and spoil the child[/spouse]``?
rgds,
PM

Shandana,
Thanks for sharing this. Is there an organization that helps women fight for mehr-related rights and child-custody post-talaq? There is this case I feel one can help out with...
Write me if you can. Thanks.
Pat.

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i`ve heard about the abused child becoming the abusive parent...actually i`ve experienced it first-hand. i think that one can get beyond the `abused child` syndrome, and not be abusive parents. i think that a man or woman who uses `i was abused which is why i`ve abused you` as a justification or explanation is using that as a crutch. whether they be the poorest people on earth, or the richest, if one is not strong enough to get past the abuse and see that there are better ways to communicate than flinging someone across the room, or screaming all sorts of nonsense, then yes, the cycle of abuse will continue.
I don`t know what pakfin means when he says `these abused women...` but i`m not agreeing with that statement completely.

Re: #36 by Tipu:

Webster Dictionary is Kafir and Capitalist. You should use an Islamic Dictionary.

Remember that the abused child becomes the abusive parent. These abused women will abuse their own children who in turn will grow up to be child/wife beaters. So the irony of life goes on

The menfolk involved in the beatings need to be hung by their essentials.


Ras

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Dear Tipu, there`s a lot of difference between being a prostitute and being a pawn of a chess. I couldn`t understand your point at all.

And Kashmir and Palestine are urgent for people that live in Kashmir and Palestine. For us Pakistan is urgent. If you want universal mankind brotherhood, kindly go help the starving in Somalia, they`re more urgent than Kashmir and Palestine.

lol and sorry to hear some nymphomaniac lured you in some breezy chatroom :D Tell me who she is, and I`ll scold her I promise.

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There was a play on GEO tonight about a girl who thought that she was marrying a young man...and at the wedding day she found out that she was to marry a 66 yrs old man...the father and the mother were mortified with prospect of a barat leaving their house,,,neither though of their child the woman who was to marry the old man...

Thank God for the cousim who volunteered to marry the girl thereby ending his rather unfortunate tale..

Ana

Men can`t (or won`t) change the situation of women, only women can ........... isn`t it time we start taking some responsibility for our condition ?????

apparition: yes, do go ahead and blame it on the women....it is our fault that some of us do not turn a blind eye and are castigated, it is our fault that women do raise all their children to the best of their ability and have little to no effect on the outcome of their children sometimes...yes. continue blaming a lot of it on the women. i think you`ve definitely got a handle on the problem...

#18 by Urstruly on June 16, 2003 10:30am PT

The irony is that those who beat up their wives can`t read this article, and those who can read this article get beat up by their wives.

I tend to agree with Urstruly`s observations.

I wish our society wasn`t as disgusting as this.

But women are to be blamed for a LOT that is happening ......... why do the mother and sisters in law turn a blind eye ??? And why aren`t women raising more humane sons ???? And why do women treat their sons better than their daughters and why do they keep making excuses for the bloody pigs ?????

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What such articles and the NGOs do is give hope to the masses suffering similar brutalities in rural areas, and also in urban areas. Everytime a ruckus is created by such situations, the NGOs run to offer assistance, their aim being to save the poor victim; her liberation being their aim, which also is the comparitively easier part; the difficult part: Making sure that they have a secure future.

Let us take the case of Hasina. She will have to work as a domestic servant. Everyday, she will be made to feel naked in the street. Her sahib will try to get jiggy with her; keeping her beauty in retrospect, which now becomes a liability. And keeping her unlucky existence in mind, she will probably have a bitchy, slave-driver Begum sahiba, who will continuously blame her for trying to woo Sahib jee. Then she gets fired. And from one house to the next, she moves on. Her kids grow up to become street urchins, as no longer do we have reliable street lights under which genius can prosper. In the end, she will be equally worse off as she had been in her village.

I do not mean to belittle the effort of NGOs. All I want to say is that something ought to be done for the future well-being of such women.

Cheers.

Disturbing.

When I was a kid I usd to think this happened in socities like ours. However I find that things are depressingly same everywhere only the frequency is lesser.

I know a lady named(now you wont belive this) Mona she seemed to slip frequently and get injuries. Frequently she spoke of her son(Robert, spelt raabert) and her ex husband and some times refered to Raaberts dad as living with her now(as if I wasnt confused enough with the maritial relations of Americans). Finally after having seen Mona not turning up at times and then coming with some visible injuries I logged on to the womens grapevine.

Mona was married and divorced(because of a abusive husband). She was living for 12 years on her own and since last year husband after loosing several jobs in succession came searching for her and their son. He appealed her to let him live in her home. Now he lives downstairs and Mona and son live upstairs. Raaberts dad is suppossed to be giving some kind of nominal rent to Mona(My guess is that this must never come). So Mona runs out of the home early in the morning (as early as 6 am) and whiles away time till the kids needs to be dropped (to avoid meeting the rentier husband) and returns home early and sleeps by 7-8pm again to avoid the husband. In between there are times where she suddenly disappears for a day and has bruises on her body and takes great pain in explaning how clumsy she has become.

The more the things seem to have changed the more they are the same.

This is nothing new. Those of us who grew up in Pakistan have been reading these stories in She, Women`s Own and various other women magazines along with browsing through women fashions, jewelry and horoscopes from our late teen days. In the West, women magazines like Cosmopolitan and Glamour have been capturing even worse episodes of some interior parts of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and other South Asian countries.

The most important point that the writer overlooked while providing this coverage was demanding certain rights for women in a clear cut manner. And, she may have done that but it is not very obvious. There may be 100s of other stories like that. What next? Such issues ought to be taken to the next level by demanding the legal infrastructure to provide security to each and every resident of Pakistan. Men and for that matter women are not going to change. If they are evil they will stay evil. If they are angel they will be one for all times to come. In the absence of any concrete action, do not be surprised to find the US Soldiers landing in colored parachutes to save the distressed ones pretty soon. Then we will hear the interviews on FM 99.5 of Muslim Women. This is what happened in Afghanistan and this is what`s happening in Iraq.

Point to ponder.

how can they allow this vicious cycle to continue? i blame the mother-in-law and the girls` parents for putting up wid this cruelty wid a shrug of helplessness. the mother-in-law most probably was beaten herself, as was the girls` mother. so if they were beaten, does it make it ok for the son to mete out cruelty too?

and where does it end? haseena`s son was victim of brutality too...this is vat he learned from his `mentors` and `role models` as a kid. this is the only way he will know how to behave, ie. lash out cruelly if something displeases. keep the womenfolk grovelling at your feet as that is where they should be kept.
this is so frustrating.

lets suppose the wives have no power to control their husbands or to reason wid them to stop the beatings. but they can damn well control their sons cant they? cant they punish their sons as kids from mistreating his sisters? im sure the wives aren`t the only recipients of this treatment. the sisters (and maybe even the mother sometimes) get it first...until the sons get a very convenient `punch bag` which has no rights, which cant talk back, who has no one to inquire after its well-being.

if the people around the maniac condemn his behaviour...would he dare to continue to perpetrate and flaunt such basic laws of showing kindness to fellow beings?

im sorry if im reiterating vat has been said already...as i just read this and didnt check all the replies.

Re: #16 by Tipu


1- Those are some awesome designs! Its always a pleasure to see good artwork. Thanx for sharing the link.

2- Its the liberty that offends you, the fact that some women in Pakistan actually have the right to be models and get their pictures taken. Its their independance that you don`t like, the fact that they choose what they want to do. I, and many others like me find these pictues to be an extremely positive influence for the society for the same reasons.

3- Complexed deprivd and desperate losers spend hours on the Internet trying to find pictures of Pakistani celebrities with even the slightest hint of a clevage or bare midriff, then they look at those pictures every day and say, ``Toba toba! Pakistan ka mahol bohot kharaab ho gya hai!`

Very Very Sad, but well-written. Thanks for the reality check.

FRIENDS OF SOUTH ASIA
presents
a seminar on
Human Rights in South Asia:
Persecution of the Ahmadiyya Community in Pakistan

June 22, 5 p.m.
Milpitas Library Community Hall


SPEAKERS

Tayyab Mahmud
Professor of Law
Cleveland State University

David Pinault
Associate Professor of Religious Studies
Santa Clara University


Also featuring testimonies from individuals who were victims of persecution,
and a Q&A session.
The event is free and open to all.

The event is free and open to all.


BACKGROUND
The Ahmadiyya faith was founded as an offshoot of the Sunni Muslim community
about 1889, by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian in the Punjab. After the independence
of India and Pakistan in 1947, the headquarters was moved to Rabwah in what
became the Pakistani part of Punjab. Mirza Tahir Ahmad, the fourth ``Khalifathul
Masih`` (Successor of the Promised Messiah), spiritual leader of the mainstream
``Ahmadiyya Muslim Community`` for the past few decades, died on April 19th
of this year in London, having gone into exile in 1984.

The Ahmadis (as people of the Ahmadiyya sect are called) have been targets
of persecution and sectarian violence in Pakistan for a long time. In 1974,
the Constitution of Pakistan was amended, decreeing the Ahmadis as non-Muslims
in the eyes of the law. This opened the door for the official persecution
of its members under the flimsiest of pretexts (such as recitation of Islamic
prayers, referring to their places of worship as mosques, identifying themselves
as Muslims, and so on). The situation steadily became worse, including the
desecration of places of worship, and attacks on Ahmadiyya lives and property
in several campaigns of repression, while the state did nothing to stop
the perpetrators. Worse still, the state incarcerated several followers
under a Blasphemy Law that was reputedly crafted specifically with the Ahmadiyya
community in mind. This led to vast numbers of Ahmadis fleeing Pakistan
and settling in Britain, Germany, Canada and the US. Today the status of
Ahmadis in Pakistan continues to be grave -- they continue to be discriminated
against by the mainstream in the political as well as social spheres, and
are still prime targets of violence. This issue, although serious, is not
openly discussed in Pakistan. This, despite the fact that some of the most
illustrious Pakistani citizens of the 20th century belonged to the Ahmadiyya
sect - Sir Muhammad Zafrullah Khan, the noted statesman who was Pakistan`s
first foreign minister as well as former president of the International
Court of Justice, and Prof. Abdus Salam, Nobel Laureate in Physics (1979),
to name just two.

CONTEXT

We have been seeing a steady increase in human rights violations and persecution
of minority communities in South Asia in the past decade. In this context,
this seminar is an attempt to shed some light and raise awareness of the
situation of one such community, and galvanize public opinion to call for
the repealing of a divisive and inhumane law, that has been specifically
targeted at one community.

This is one of a series of events organized or co-sponsored by Friends of
South Asia (FOSA) on tolerance and human rights issues in South Asia, with
special emphasis on how they impact minorities. Previous events have included
documentary screenings on right wing groups in India, a discussion of freedom
of speech and intellectual freedom with a Pakistani playwright, etc. Information
on past and future events can be seen at: http://www.friendsofsouthasia.org/events.

ABOUT THE SPEAKER

Tayyab Mahmud is a Professor of Law at Cleveland State University in Cleveland,
Ohio. He is a graduate of Punjab University, Islamabad University, University
of Hawaii, and University of California- Hastings College of Law. He has
practiced law in Pakistan and the United States and has taught at various
universities in the two countries. He has published extensively on issues
of Comparative Law, Legal History, and Human Rights, including a detailed
article on freedom of religion and religious minorities in Pakistan (see
reference below).

David Pinault is Associate Professor of Religious Studies at Santa Clara
University. Books he has written include The Shiites: Ritual and Popular
Piety in a Muslim Community (NY: St Martin`s Press, 1992) and Horse of Karbala:
Muslim Devotional Life in India (NY: Palgrave, 2001). In 2002 alone he made
two trips to Pakistan, during which he spoke with Pakistani Christians and
Ahmadis in addition to his focus on the Shia communities in Lahore and
Peshawar. Speak on his experiences with members of minority communities
in Pakistan.

RESOURCES

Tayyab Mahmud, ``Freedom of Religion & Religious Minorities in Pakistan:
A Study of Judicial Practice,`` 19 Fordham International Law Review 40-100
(1995).
Tayyab Mahmud, ``Protecting Religious Minorities: The Courts` Abdication``,
in Chapter Six of ``Pakistan: 1995`` (eds. Charles H. Kennedy & Rasul Bakhsh
Rais) Westview Press: Boulder (1995).
Directions
Milpitas Library Community Room is located in the Milpitas Library at:
40 N. Milpitas Boulevard
Milpitas, CA 95035-4495
(408) 262-1171
For detailed directions, please see http://www.santaclaracountylib.org/milpitas/MIdirections.html


ABOUT THE FRIENDS OF SOUTH ASIA
Founded in the Silicon Valley/San Francisco Bay Area, FOSA brings together
people with roots in various parts of South Asia, as well as other well-wishers
of the region. FOSA`s mission is to achieve a peaceful, prosperous, and
hate-free South Asia--most immediately working towards a demilitarized,
nuclear-free South Asia and promoting respect for, and celebrating the diversity
and plurality of South Asia. FOSA works to promote amity between countries
and communities, working towards a South Asia where the rights of all minorities
are respected and protected regardless of religious, ethnic, sexual or other
differences. FOSA carries out its work through people-to-people contacts,
dialog, and other non-violent,non-exclusionary means; working as a single
group and with other organizations that share similar aspirations. FOSA`s
website is at http://www.friendsofsouthasia.org.

Urstruly,

re: 18

Is that how it works in your little bubble?

i had to force myself to read halfway through this myself, especially since some of this hits close to home. and i`ll have to come back to this later, but i have to say this....a society which allows this to happen, and does nothing to change or stop it, is not a society worth living in. no one should have to go through what haseena and jannat did, what countless women go through, and be made to feel that it is part of their life. being abused does NOT HAVE to be a part of anyone`s life.
thank you for sharing this with us shandana!
~ana

The irony is that those who beat up their wives can`t read this article, and those who can read this article get beat up by their wives.

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What is so painful as Shandana`s reportage makes clear, is that whole villages were condoning the abuse of these wives and sons. Everyone says they were afraid- I dont know how much of that to believe-it takes courage to face that kind of evil.

The criminals that the Haseena and Jannat married should be serving terms in prison for physical and emotional torture. But really, these animals are just extreme versions of their family and villagers who condone the abuse of women. And these people should be held accountable as well.

reality.this is not happening only in pakistan,but also in india.parents are also responsiable for all these miseries.ist daughter was not happy with that wrestler,why they marry the second one.
poverety and illiteracey are the two main cause.no government can protect them.people themselves have to evolve some stratgeies to tackle it.apart from the miseries after marriages,there are so many child abuse cases.
dadi jan is abusing 11 year girl a nd mother is neither accepting nor responding this criminal act.so there is no end to all these miseries and nosolution.i think so .what other say .i don``t know.

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#5 by Tipu on June 15, 2003 4:27pm PT
Duniya maine Itna Gham Haim

Mera Ghaam Kitna Kam Hai
---

Tipu ji

Would you still feel Pakistan would be ideal for you and your women??
Or you would you like your India a bit more now?

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Shandana

A touching story - this life goes on in every other poor and low middle class home.

Frankly I do not see a light at the end of the tunnel. Religion mixed with medieval customs makes a deadly potient.

We have to begin at the very top - rename ourselves as the Democratic Republic of Pakistan instead of Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

I feel guilty of beating my own country with a stick every time - but I can not help it.

shandy:

half way through i had to force myself to read...such was my disgust...insaf, insaf, insaf kahaaN hay?...for the overwhelming majority...there is no insaaf...no justice...


to be poor is a crime in pakistan
to be poor and a women is worse

...this should be a must read along with binoo`s article and the responses there and cheeso`s i-log entry for today...

lve,

t

hey chowkidars ...
love wat you did to it ..

the fonts .. the arrows ..
the white background ..

love it love it love it ..

``Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for God`s guarding. And those you fear may be rebelliou admonish, banish them to their couches, and beat them. If they then obey you, look not for any way against them; God is all-high, all-great.`` [ The Koran 4:34 -[i]Arberry[/i] ]

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Guys who beat their wives are pathetic, and not men but hijray.

``The best of you is he who is best to his women folk``--hadith sharif.

A very sad narration indeed. Triumphs to Haseena and Jannat for surviving in such brutal conditions.