The Scandal of Fake and Madrassa Degrees

Can I add that a Dars e Nizami is a specific course to produce religious scholars--hence it is a vocational degree just like engineering or medicine or law. Now you wouldn`t expect a doctor to also know islamic jurisprudence so why should an alim know the delights or otherwise of shakespeare or hegel or wittgenstein or einstein`s theory of relativity?

I personally believe the dars e nizami should be slightly updated to include the changes which have taken place in western philosophy since the middle ages so our ulama can better understand the modern world but the core of the course has worked for 100s of years and can still do so.

Madressa education, as in Pakistan, is not a balanced education. It misses out the entire arts, socialogy, philosohy, literature - and churns out robots with a limted knowledge but a high dose of intolerance and enthusiasm.

Such a Madressa education is a disservice and is dangerous for the society in the long run. The Government, as a policy, should recognize only balanced and uniform education all over. Just like the rest of the world.

Religion should be an optional subject - with other choices available.

Basic religious education should be confined to home and mosque.

Guys, get one thing clear:








Nqshbandi: Its not how many years you spend studying, its the course you study. Dars-e-Nizami is more than a hundred years old, and unsuitable for a modern democratic state.

Guys, get one thing clear:

THE MADRASSA ISSUE HAS NOT BEEN BROUGHT UP BY THE MUSHARRAF GOVT. LAST TIME I CHECKED ASLAM KHAKI WAS PRO-PPP. INFACT SOME MEMBERS OF THE GOVERNING PARTY HAVE ALSO BEEN NAMED IN THE PETITION!

Nobody likes Musharraf but kindly avoid writing long analyses based on false assumptions.



Romair: Shah Ahmed Noorani probably does sprak 12 languages, but I`d protest if Urdu and English are to be considered the languages he knows :)

Nqshbandi: Its not how many years you spend studying, its the course you study. Dars-e-Nizami is more than a hundred years old, and unsuitable for a modern democratic state.

Bringing up the issue of madrassa degrees now is incorrect. It should have been brought up before the elections, or not brought up at all. I believe madrassa degrees were declared equivalent to college degrees by Zia-ul-Haq. None of the govts. after that (PPP, PML) changed that. Neither did Musharraf. Infact PPP and PML are both allied with MMA now. So its too late for Musharraf, PPP or PML to complain.

One has to give the Mullahs credit where it is due. They know exactly what they want, and they try to get it, and couldn`t care less what everyone else thinks of them. They will not budge from their Shariah stances, and their beards and veils, regardless of what happens. And they will only ally with someone who supports their policies. They will not change their principles, to support someone else.

The PPP and PML on the other hand seem to be willing to jump in, change their principles, wherever it seems appropriate. What in the world does PPP have in common with MMA? Yet, despite getting the most votes in Pakistan, and despite getting more seats than the MMA, the PPP has accepted MMA as the leader.

The MMA for all its faults is far more democratic than PPP and PML, which are both completely autocratic fiefdoms, with leaderships going from one generation to the other (PPP being the ultimate example: Zulfiqar, Nusrat, onto Benazir, and Bilawal in the future). MMA parties actually hold internal elections, while PPP and PML never do. This is why MMA, as an institution, whether one likes it or not, will always be stronger than PPP and PML. Hardly any, if any, of the MMA politicians will switch sides. Most of PML and a portion of PPP have already jumped ship towards the govt.

Unfortunately, MMA is so obsessively locked into 7th Century Islam for Pakistan, that most policies it comes up with, regardless of how sincere they maybe, will ruin Pakistan.

So massive corruption and feudalism on one side (PPP and PML (all versions)) that has always destroyed Pakistan`s economy and will never let it evolve beyond a feudal-based system, backward looking misinterpretations of Islam on the other side (MMA) that will send Pakistan into the stone age, and quasi-military dictatorship on the third side (Musharraf) that will never let democracy evolve.

These are the choices Pakistan has.....Until all three of these forces (Mullah, Feudal, General) are removed from Pakistan`s political spectrum, there will never be real democracy. There won`t be democracy, even if two are removed. In fact, that would even be worse, since the third force will then completely become dominant. The Mullah wants the General and Feudal removed. The Feudal wants the Mullah and General removed. And the General wants the Mullah and Feudal removed. The people who have enough money to discuss politics, want all three removed. And the common Pakistani could care less and just wants a job and food.

These three forces are finally, now, in almost equivalent political power. Hence they are clashing. Soon, two will gang up on the third. It is hard to tell which two. The Mullah is on one side, the General on the other. The Feudal is split, half siding with Mullah (PPP) and half (PML(Q)) with General.

I cannot see a situation in the next decades, when all three of these forces will be completely out of politics. Since there exists no mechanism and no fourth force to kick them out. It should be obvious to all Pakistanis, that elections of any sort, have only strengthened these three forces. So more elections, under the current system, will only strengthen them more.

The people can only become the fourth force, if they have economic power. That requires national economic growth. The Mullah sincerely wants economic growth, since his constituency is the poor. But he is relying on Divine intervention for the growth to occur, and has little understanding of the world and of economics to bring about growth. The Feudal is educated enough to know how to bring about economic growth, but economic growth is against the Feudal`s interests. It would require him giving up his lands. So the Feudal wants to make sure there is no economic growth in Pakistan. The General genuinely wants economic growth also, but doesn`t quite know how to bring it about. He sincerely thinks, ``General knows best,`` but the historical results indicate otherwise.

Let`s see who wins out. If Feudal (PPP and PML) can be freed from the clutches of BB and NS, respectively, and can be led by their educated urban intellectuals members, then I hope PPP and PML win out. If the Mullah can water down his misinterpretations of Islam and learn to consider others to be as good Muslims as he is, then I hope the Mullah wins out. Otherwise, under the present leaderships, I hope General wins out.

Ideally, of course, I hope all three lose, and are removed from the political spectrum.


Naqshbandi #2: Would you happen to know what is the curriculum involved in degrees from Madrassas. I have always been interested in finding out.

And does Mr. Noorani really speak 12 languages. Which ones?

The Musharraf govt. exhibits a kind of superiority complex. It looks down upon most politicians as illierate and unsophisticated. The B.A. pre-requisite was just a way to get rid of them.

Just before the election, the B.A. pre-requisite was also supposed to get rid of the illiterate molvis, but unfortunately the agencies` plans have always been different from those of Musharraf, and from taking back the change in the Blasphemy Law to accepting the validity of Madrassa degrees, Musharraf has appeared weak and helpless.

He likes Ata-turk but he`s probably scared if he follows his hero people will think he`s a Qadiani! :)

This whole issue about degrees has just been brought up by Musharraf`s cronies on his behest to put pressure on the MMA to accept his LFO...

...In an earlier discussion some time back I posted an article about the qualifications of Mawlana Shah Ahmad Noorani..he is more educated than almost anyone else in the government! Who else in either house can speak 12 languages?!!

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Besides people think a madrassah education is easy; the actual full Dars e Nizami course--takes at least EIGHT years to complete full time and is very demanding; a medical degree only takes 5!

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It was as bogus as rest of his actions. After imposing bacheolar degree requirement, keeping the major parties out, buying degree holder politicans, making sure of his supporters winning the election and then............he said that it was a gathering of uncivilized crowd not worthy of his inaugural speech.

Laleka was even eyeing for primeminster position and bargaining hard and long before joining Quisling League. He was a minster in NS government too. Real joke of BA degree came out in NWFP, when no member could craft Sharia resolution and instead they copied verbatim from a 1991 resolution.

However, forget about any anti-government decision from current judiciary.