The Jihad of a Humanist
Dost Mittar June 25, 2003
#46 Posted by Godot on June 28, 2003 9:03:03 am
HOW TRAGIC...
A complete silence to my post 36 leads me to believe that I may have spoken the truth and may have struck a chord among many...how tragic for Chowk.
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#45 Posted by nazarhayatkhan on June 28, 2003 8:15:24 am
Veeresh # 43
Thanks for producing Khuswant Singh`s write up. He is always refreshing.
South Asia lives in myths and myths and myths. At least the Pakistani history text books are not history but myths.
Turka is very much a part of our daily lives in Pakistan. It is that Turka that gives that ``oomph`` to the Daal.
As for that debate going downstairs on the quality and themes of Articles on Chowk:
Some people buy newspaper only to read Sports page.
Some only read the editorial.
Some read the magazine section.
Some buy magazines on technology.
Some only read erotica.
Some buy magazines on outdoor life and so on.
Chowk gives a sprinkling of all themes and tastes - which in my opinion is good.
As for the quality, if an article has a theme that I do not like, I will not read it and actually find it quite boring. I will also think that it is of a poor quality.
And Chowk is a place for exchanging views, let everyone write and enjoy and may be we need to be tolerant and encourage new writers - there are good writers and there are ordinary souls like me. After all, Chowk is not paying anything to the contributors.
So, by and large, I will say that the Chowk staff is doing a good job and Chowk is a good place to learn, interact, spend time and get entertained.
#44 Posted by tahmed32 on June 28, 2003 8:15:24 am
godot #48 dont worry. we shall find the finest tonga in rawalpindi for you to pull. then you can race down rajah bazaar with your head held high (as is expected from a prize racehorse) and THEN chowk editors will know what a stallion they rejected...i mean ejected. and no doubt urstruly will try to get a ride for himself, his wife, and his ten children on the tonga and will then tell the entire family to run off in different directions when they reach home, thus avoiding payment to the tonga wallah...
#43 Posted by veeresh on June 28, 2003 12:49:36 am
The truth behind aviation incidents so often gets obscured by the vividness of the tragedy. For some reason, aviation related deaths seem to bring out higher levels of group emotions, than compared to, say, marine or land.
I wonder why?
Meanwhile, for those who missed it, from today`s HT:-
History of one’s making
Khushwant Singh
June 27
Distorting history to suit the mood of the times is not an invention of Murli Manohar Joshi, the minister for education, and his pliable panel of so-called historians. It has been practised ever since people became aware of their past.
Indian scholars are not the only falsifiers of events. British historians indulged in it with equal zeal. Take, for instance, the Revolt of 1857. While the British call it the Sepoy Mutiny, Indians describe it as the First War of Independence. In fact, it was more than a mutiny of some sepoys of the forces of the East India Company. And it was by no means a war of independence waged by oppressed Indians.
A vast majority of Indians were opposed to it and large numbers of Indians helped to suppress it. Its Muslim supporters wanted
to restore Mughal rule and bullied a reluctant Bahadur Shah Zafar to become their leader. Even the poet, Asadullah Khan Ghalib, kept a respectable distance from them. Hindus who rose in rebellion were led by their erstwhile rulers who had been ousted by the British. The credit for making 1857 the year of India’s First War of Independence goes largely to the pseudo-historian, Jawaharlal Nehru.
A bigger fabrication is about our freedom struggle. Indian historians make it out as a war between British rulers and the Indian masses led by Gandhi, Nehru, Subhas Chandra Bose, Sardar Patel, Azad and other Congress leaders. It was nothing of the sort. To start with, it was inspired by Englishmen like A.O. Hume (CIC) and leaders of the Congress loyal to Queen Victoria. Tagore composed and sang Jana gana mana in honour of King George V. A majority of Congress leaders were products of British universities and Inns of Court. No sooner had they returned home, they shed their frock-coats, top hats, ties and striped trousers and took to wearing khadi kurtas and dhotis. They changed their attires, but they did not shed their British way of thinking. Far from opposing British rule tooth and nail, at times they collaborated with them as junior partners, as in Provincial Congress-led governments in 1937 and 1939.
Another myth is that Indians kicked out the British. They did nothing of the sort. The Quit India movement launched by Gandhi in August 1942 was crushed within three weeks. The British were not evicted from India; they found it increasingly difficult to rule it and decided to call it a day. Shanmukham Chetty, independent India’s first finance minister, had the correct perspective when he said, “… we have secured freedom from foreign yoke, mainly through the operation of world events, and partly through a unique act of enlightened self-abnegation on behalf of the erstwhile rulers of the country…”
Pandit Nehru’s oft-quoted ‘Tryst with Destiny’ speech in Parliament in August 1947 has to be taken with a large dose of salt. He said, “At the stroke of the midnight hour, as the world sleeps, India wakes to life and freedom.” For one thing, when it is midnight in India, in half the world on the other side of the globe, it is day time and people are not sleeping. What was a day of jubilation in Delhi was a day of mourning in Punjab and Bengal which had been sliced into halves with enormous amount of bloodshed and millions rendered homeless and impoverished. However, many people had reasons to be jubilant. Those in the defence and civil services got double promotions because the British and Muslim officials had left, industrialists who had made huge profit during the war were able to buy British companies and tea estates at throwaway prices.
Indians did say good riddance to the British; they continued to send their ICS and senior defence personnel for training to England. The truth is that though there was only one Briton to more than 2,000 Indians, they were able to rule over us for 200 years because we Indians found their presence in India worth our while.
I invite the attention of educated Indians to a short article ‘The Fables of Nationalism’ by Prof Indivar Kamtekar of JNU in the India International Centre Quarterly magazine. It is truly an eye-opener, thoroughly researched, well-worded and totally free of bias. He has done a great job of debunking myths on which we have been brought up. I am not aware if he has written a history of India, but I am sure if he does so it will be well worth reading. People who live on myths of the past of their own making develop a myopic vision of the present and imperil their own future.
Taste of India
Chhownk — I don’t think this Hindi word or its Punjabi version, tarhka, has yet found entry into the Oxford English Dictionary. Words like garnishing, seasoning and tempering are not adequate. It stands for a culinary practice common all over northern India and down to the Deccan to add to the taste to lentils and vegetables. When they are ready to be served, the cook takes a ladle full of pure ghee, adds onions, garlic, asafoetida, kari patta, red chillies or other chosen spices, heats them over the fire and pours the contents on the rice, dal or subzi. It produces a loud sizzling noise and aromatic smoke. It makes a noticeable difference in the taste of food pleasing both to the tongue and the nostrils. This is done in most homes and roadside dhabas but never in fancy restaurants or five-star hotels. Why not? They have sizzlers brought in steaming with spirals of white smoke; they have flambe pudding with blue flames produced by brandy or rum. So why not chhownk, with white top-hatted chefs pouring aromatic ghee on your dal-bhaat with a touch of panache as if performing some sacred Oriental ritual.
I am told that chhownk or tarhka is not practised in Muslim homes. Can this be true?
I wonder why?
Meanwhile, for those who missed it, from today`s HT:-
History of one’s making
Khushwant Singh
June 27
Distorting history to suit the mood of the times is not an invention of Murli Manohar Joshi, the minister for education, and his pliable panel of so-called historians. It has been practised ever since people became aware of their past.
Indian scholars are not the only falsifiers of events. British historians indulged in it with equal zeal. Take, for instance, the Revolt of 1857. While the British call it the Sepoy Mutiny, Indians describe it as the First War of Independence. In fact, it was more than a mutiny of some sepoys of the forces of the East India Company. And it was by no means a war of independence waged by oppressed Indians.
A vast majority of Indians were opposed to it and large numbers of Indians helped to suppress it. Its Muslim supporters wanted
to restore Mughal rule and bullied a reluctant Bahadur Shah Zafar to become their leader. Even the poet, Asadullah Khan Ghalib, kept a respectable distance from them. Hindus who rose in rebellion were led by their erstwhile rulers who had been ousted by the British. The credit for making 1857 the year of India’s First War of Independence goes largely to the pseudo-historian, Jawaharlal Nehru.
A bigger fabrication is about our freedom struggle. Indian historians make it out as a war between British rulers and the Indian masses led by Gandhi, Nehru, Subhas Chandra Bose, Sardar Patel, Azad and other Congress leaders. It was nothing of the sort. To start with, it was inspired by Englishmen like A.O. Hume (CIC) and leaders of the Congress loyal to Queen Victoria. Tagore composed and sang Jana gana mana in honour of King George V. A majority of Congress leaders were products of British universities and Inns of Court. No sooner had they returned home, they shed their frock-coats, top hats, ties and striped trousers and took to wearing khadi kurtas and dhotis. They changed their attires, but they did not shed their British way of thinking. Far from opposing British rule tooth and nail, at times they collaborated with them as junior partners, as in Provincial Congress-led governments in 1937 and 1939.
Another myth is that Indians kicked out the British. They did nothing of the sort. The Quit India movement launched by Gandhi in August 1942 was crushed within three weeks. The British were not evicted from India; they found it increasingly difficult to rule it and decided to call it a day. Shanmukham Chetty, independent India’s first finance minister, had the correct perspective when he said, “… we have secured freedom from foreign yoke, mainly through the operation of world events, and partly through a unique act of enlightened self-abnegation on behalf of the erstwhile rulers of the country…”
Pandit Nehru’s oft-quoted ‘Tryst with Destiny’ speech in Parliament in August 1947 has to be taken with a large dose of salt. He said, “At the stroke of the midnight hour, as the world sleeps, India wakes to life and freedom.” For one thing, when it is midnight in India, in half the world on the other side of the globe, it is day time and people are not sleeping. What was a day of jubilation in Delhi was a day of mourning in Punjab and Bengal which had been sliced into halves with enormous amount of bloodshed and millions rendered homeless and impoverished. However, many people had reasons to be jubilant. Those in the defence and civil services got double promotions because the British and Muslim officials had left, industrialists who had made huge profit during the war were able to buy British companies and tea estates at throwaway prices.
Indians did say good riddance to the British; they continued to send their ICS and senior defence personnel for training to England. The truth is that though there was only one Briton to more than 2,000 Indians, they were able to rule over us for 200 years because we Indians found their presence in India worth our while.
I invite the attention of educated Indians to a short article ‘The Fables of Nationalism’ by Prof Indivar Kamtekar of JNU in the India International Centre Quarterly magazine. It is truly an eye-opener, thoroughly researched, well-worded and totally free of bias. He has done a great job of debunking myths on which we have been brought up. I am not aware if he has written a history of India, but I am sure if he does so it will be well worth reading. People who live on myths of the past of their own making develop a myopic vision of the present and imperil their own future.
Taste of India
Chhownk — I don’t think this Hindi word or its Punjabi version, tarhka, has yet found entry into the Oxford English Dictionary. Words like garnishing, seasoning and tempering are not adequate. It stands for a culinary practice common all over northern India and down to the Deccan to add to the taste to lentils and vegetables. When they are ready to be served, the cook takes a ladle full of pure ghee, adds onions, garlic, asafoetida, kari patta, red chillies or other chosen spices, heats them over the fire and pours the contents on the rice, dal or subzi. It produces a loud sizzling noise and aromatic smoke. It makes a noticeable difference in the taste of food pleasing both to the tongue and the nostrils. This is done in most homes and roadside dhabas but never in fancy restaurants or five-star hotels. Why not? They have sizzlers brought in steaming with spirals of white smoke; they have flambe pudding with blue flames produced by brandy or rum. So why not chhownk, with white top-hatted chefs pouring aromatic ghee on your dal-bhaat with a touch of panache as if performing some sacred Oriental ritual.
I am told that chhownk or tarhka is not practised in Muslim homes. Can this be true?
#42 Posted by ghatee on June 27, 2003 11:56:06 pm
dost-mitterji,
Yes, we do need more like Dr. Chandra in this world. However, not as an effect of a tragedy like this though.
Yes, we do need more like Dr. Chandra in this world. However, not as an effect of a tragedy like this though.
#41 Posted by ZahraJ on June 27, 2003 10:03:03 pm
Nand Uncle:
Thank you for the update. I had no clue about this tragedy and got to read about the aftermath. We always learn about something new from informative readings.
On Chowk`s Policies and Procedures:
(Now, this is a personal observation and does not require or demand a tit for tat response)
As a cyber ezine, Chowk should include all types of write-ups vs. focusing on one kind of thought process. As far as favoritism goes that is true in general for human nature and I do not think that Chowk is run by robots. That`s why I do not find a single writer on this ezine or for that matter on any other ezine as my all time favorite. And that`s a personal view. Sometimes, there is life in the writings; whereas on other occasions they are completely off. The best way of saving yourself from the agony is to avoid reading the stuff that`s not worth the time and effort to respond. On the same hand to each person their words mean a lot and there is a sense of ownership and territorial-ism(!) To person X his vulgar jokes may mean a everything, whereas to person Y they may serve as a mirror to person X`s pagal pun. To each their own. In general, vulgarities only reveal the disgusting personas that are not worth a second glance.
End of Discussion.
Thank you for the update. I had no clue about this tragedy and got to read about the aftermath. We always learn about something new from informative readings.
On Chowk`s Policies and Procedures:
(Now, this is a personal observation and does not require or demand a tit for tat response)
As a cyber ezine, Chowk should include all types of write-ups vs. focusing on one kind of thought process. As far as favoritism goes that is true in general for human nature and I do not think that Chowk is run by robots. That`s why I do not find a single writer on this ezine or for that matter on any other ezine as my all time favorite. And that`s a personal view. Sometimes, there is life in the writings; whereas on other occasions they are completely off. The best way of saving yourself from the agony is to avoid reading the stuff that`s not worth the time and effort to respond. On the same hand to each person their words mean a lot and there is a sense of ownership and territorial-ism(!) To person X his vulgar jokes may mean a everything, whereas to person Y they may serve as a mirror to person X`s pagal pun. To each their own. In general, vulgarities only reveal the disgusting personas that are not worth a second glance.
End of Discussion.
#40 Posted by Tipu on June 27, 2003 10:03:03 pm
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#39 Posted by Tipu on June 27, 2003 10:03:03 pm
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#38 Posted by Godot on June 27, 2003 7:04:36 pm
Re: tahmed, #37
Yes, I`m a race-car driver tryining to over-take tanga-wallas...and, oh, man it sucks...
No, I don`t feel like a race-horse rejected...but ejected prematurely...now that sucks...
Yes, I`m a race-car driver tryining to over-take tanga-wallas...and, oh, man it sucks...
No, I don`t feel like a race-horse rejected...but ejected prematurely...now that sucks...
#37 Posted by tahmed32 on June 27, 2003 5:29:29 pm
urstruly #35 I see that you are trying to worm your way into godot`s good books by projecting your marital problems, not to mention your cheapness.
i understand you took your wife out to Mcdonalds for your tenth wedding anniversary, and then ordered a single small pack of french fries, saying to her ``kha ja! kha ja! paisayuN di purvah na kar!``.
and i hear that you are so cheap you go to bed at 7 pm in order to save on electricity.
i also understand that your idea of a night out to the movie with your wife is to stand with her for two hours next to the neighbor`s window, watching the movie they have on TV.
you think godot is impressed by you and thinks you are not a mediocrity like the rest of us? think again. this article of his that failed to make it on chowk (this is as humiliating for a Great Writer as a race car driver failing to pass the learner`s test) was titled: ``Urstruly: A Mediocrity among Mediocrities``. Chowk editors took pity on both of you and refused to publish it. Godot feels like a racehorse who has been rejected even by the rawalpindi tonga walas. Imagine how Shakespeare would have felt if Hamlet had been rejected by Chowk!! That is how godot feels. And he knows all this i am writing is very mediocre attempts at being funny.
i understand you took your wife out to Mcdonalds for your tenth wedding anniversary, and then ordered a single small pack of french fries, saying to her ``kha ja! kha ja! paisayuN di purvah na kar!``.
and i hear that you are so cheap you go to bed at 7 pm in order to save on electricity.
i also understand that your idea of a night out to the movie with your wife is to stand with her for two hours next to the neighbor`s window, watching the movie they have on TV.
you think godot is impressed by you and thinks you are not a mediocrity like the rest of us? think again. this article of his that failed to make it on chowk (this is as humiliating for a Great Writer as a race car driver failing to pass the learner`s test) was titled: ``Urstruly: A Mediocrity among Mediocrities``. Chowk editors took pity on both of you and refused to publish it. Godot feels like a racehorse who has been rejected even by the rawalpindi tonga walas. Imagine how Shakespeare would have felt if Hamlet had been rejected by Chowk!! That is how godot feels. And he knows all this i am writing is very mediocre attempts at being funny.
#36 Posted by Godot on June 27, 2003 3:46:19 pm
Re: Urstruly, #35
Chowk exercises no discretion as far as the quality of articles is concerned that it puts on the front page. There appears to be no rhyme or reason as to what gets published. The Chowk’s approach to publishing articles appears to be ad hoc, haphazard, temperamental, and without a thought
If there is a method to the madness in publishing an article at Chowk, it appears to be two-prong: 1) Does the author personally know the Chowk editors or the editors have a soft spot for the author, if yes, then never mind the article, just publish it pronto; 2) Would the article make the readers act as a bunch of morons, if yes, then publish it pronto. Everybody else has to take a backseat and wait depending on what the editors were smoking when they read your article. If they feel good, you are in (that can take two days to two years), otherwise you can take a hike, never mind the fact that the not-favorite writer has wasted all of his/her time for something he/she is not even going to get paid!!!
Scanning the front page of Chowk, it’s quite obvious that Chowk editors play favorites. What matters to them is not what but who gets published; ergo, what gets published has very little to do with the quality of writing.
Is it any wonder that many good writers have left Chowk, and the readership is stuck at about 70-odd people? And it weren’t for the Unplugg, even that number would probably dwindle down to about 8 people.
It is a safe bet that most readers don’t even read the articles at Chowk anymore; they just click on the responses to read what an interactor is saying, and the interaction begins that rarely has anything to do with the article. The “Hits” for the article, then, are elusively deceiving: more hits do not mean that readers are bothering to read the article, but reflect a curiosity as to what interactors are saying to each other, this board being a case in point.
Dost-mittar is a favorite writer. You are not. Good luck.
Chowk exercises no discretion as far as the quality of articles is concerned that it puts on the front page. There appears to be no rhyme or reason as to what gets published. The Chowk’s approach to publishing articles appears to be ad hoc, haphazard, temperamental, and without a thought
If there is a method to the madness in publishing an article at Chowk, it appears to be two-prong: 1) Does the author personally know the Chowk editors or the editors have a soft spot for the author, if yes, then never mind the article, just publish it pronto; 2) Would the article make the readers act as a bunch of morons, if yes, then publish it pronto. Everybody else has to take a backseat and wait depending on what the editors were smoking when they read your article. If they feel good, you are in (that can take two days to two years), otherwise you can take a hike, never mind the fact that the not-favorite writer has wasted all of his/her time for something he/she is not even going to get paid!!!
Scanning the front page of Chowk, it’s quite obvious that Chowk editors play favorites. What matters to them is not what but who gets published; ergo, what gets published has very little to do with the quality of writing.
Is it any wonder that many good writers have left Chowk, and the readership is stuck at about 70-odd people? And it weren’t for the Unplugg, even that number would probably dwindle down to about 8 people.
It is a safe bet that most readers don’t even read the articles at Chowk anymore; they just click on the responses to read what an interactor is saying, and the interaction begins that rarely has anything to do with the article. The “Hits” for the article, then, are elusively deceiving: more hits do not mean that readers are bothering to read the article, but reflect a curiosity as to what interactors are saying to each other, this board being a case in point.
Dost-mittar is a favorite writer. You are not. Good luck.
#35 Posted by Urstruly on June 27, 2003 12:36:56 pm
Godot
Yaar, these chowk people have not published my article yet either which I submitted a millenium ago. I am sick and tired of their mediocrity. Dost mitter is mediocre too but at least he got published. tahmad on the other hand is cheap. Last week he got into a quarrel with his wife and when she nagged him to death he prayed ``Rabba meiN ais zindgi tuN tang aa gaya waaN meinu chuk lay (God I am sick and tired of this life; take my life).
His wife said ``Rabba meiN vi ais zindgi tuN tang aa gaee aaN meinu chuk lay (God I am sick and tired of this life too; take my life too).
tahmad sahib immediately said ``Rabba plz accepts her prayers``
Yaar, these chowk people have not published my article yet either which I submitted a millenium ago. I am sick and tired of their mediocrity. Dost mitter is mediocre too but at least he got published. tahmad on the other hand is cheap. Last week he got into a quarrel with his wife and when she nagged him to death he prayed ``Rabba meiN ais zindgi tuN tang aa gaya waaN meinu chuk lay (God I am sick and tired of this life; take my life).
His wife said ``Rabba meiN vi ais zindgi tuN tang aa gaee aaN meinu chuk lay (God I am sick and tired of this life too; take my life too).
tahmad sahib immediately said ``Rabba plz accepts her prayers``
#34 Posted by stuka on June 27, 2003 11:51:44 am
Uurstruly:
``I am pro-Khalistan. As a matter of fact it is my core beleif that the only way to save Paksitan from Hindu religious nuts who are currently ruling the country, Pitribhumi freaks, and akhand bharat nutcases is to create a vibrant, self-sufficient, and Paksitan friendly Khalistan in Indian Punjab and Chandigar etc. ``
Well, I am glad to see that you at least acknowledge self interest of Pakistan in supporting Kkhalistan. I don`t think you realize that Khalistan as a hypothetical state is meant to have Lahore as its capital. Chandigarh is barely 30 years old. Lahore is the eternal capital of the Sikhs and the seat of Maharaja Ranjit Singh.
``The hijacking and destruction of INdian airliner was a great tragedy and the way the Indians and Indian government pursued to bring the perpetrators of this tragedy to justice in Canada, is commendable. However, they should have persued to bring to justice the perpetrators of genoocide of Sikhs in `80 with the same fervor as well, but instead all those genocidal maniacs were given special amnesty from the government last year. This is the stuff Khalistans are made of. ``
This is the truth. However bitter it may sound, there is no denying the veracity of this statement. BTW, the amnesty was given to cops of Punjab Police, who are about as genocidal as the Punjabi cops in Karachi. The people who should have been prosecuted are the Congressis respponsible for the 84 riots.
``I am pro-Khalistan. As a matter of fact it is my core beleif that the only way to save Paksitan from Hindu religious nuts who are currently ruling the country, Pitribhumi freaks, and akhand bharat nutcases is to create a vibrant, self-sufficient, and Paksitan friendly Khalistan in Indian Punjab and Chandigar etc. ``
Well, I am glad to see that you at least acknowledge self interest of Pakistan in supporting Kkhalistan. I don`t think you realize that Khalistan as a hypothetical state is meant to have Lahore as its capital. Chandigarh is barely 30 years old. Lahore is the eternal capital of the Sikhs and the seat of Maharaja Ranjit Singh.
``The hijacking and destruction of INdian airliner was a great tragedy and the way the Indians and Indian government pursued to bring the perpetrators of this tragedy to justice in Canada, is commendable. However, they should have persued to bring to justice the perpetrators of genoocide of Sikhs in `80 with the same fervor as well, but instead all those genocidal maniacs were given special amnesty from the government last year. This is the stuff Khalistans are made of. ``
This is the truth. However bitter it may sound, there is no denying the veracity of this statement. BTW, the amnesty was given to cops of Punjab Police, who are about as genocidal as the Punjabi cops in Karachi. The people who should have been prosecuted are the Congressis respponsible for the 84 riots.
#33 Posted by tahmed32 on June 27, 2003 11:40:12 am
stuka #26 just passing time, buddy, as you said. ;-) i am indeed ageing rapidly after writing all these posts on chowk and will soon need to join an old folks` home...
#32 Posted by tahmed32 on June 27, 2003 10:42:39 am
godot #30 you say of my post that ``it`s way below average.``
sob! et tu godot? man, i am so mediocre i cant even write an average post on chowk.
sob! et tu godot? man, i am so mediocre i cant even write an average post on chowk.
#31 Posted by dost_mittar on June 27, 2003 10:22:34 am
Urstruly#27
This write-up is not for or against Khalistan. And yes, I agree that justice has not been done to the victims of anti-sikh riots in India.
This write-up is not for or against Khalistan. And yes, I agree that justice has not been done to the victims of anti-sikh riots in India.
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