The Dueling Divas

long live antimason who suggested `aaj ki raat` on the chowk ... teray bachchay jiey.N ... i had long been looking for it on the net as the one i bought from sadaf was very bad quality and those on net are just 30 sec demos ...

i remember i was completely mesmerized when i happened to see that clip from `jugnu` on STN ... this in fact was the very first ocasion when a clip of any indian movie was broadcast on a pakistani tv channel as far as i can recall ... we have always had all latest indian stuff in our markets but such classics are always rare and mostly bad quality ...

My dearest delectible Paathan! Chamatkaar essay, I really enjoyed it! It was extensive, captivating, and I loved the sensitivity to detail. Also, the social and cultural implications that their careers held was also interesting. You`re an amazing writer.
All the Best!
Can you guess who this is??
Signed,
Amrapalli~Loved by everyone, belonging to no one.

Why does this have to be a conquest?

Each singers`s voice is unique each one`s appeal is timeless.

ussa

Excellent article. I opened it just to check which two singers it was about, but couldnt leave it till i had finished reading it all.

lots of new information for me. i must thank you for this.

best regards,

HH

Antimason #47 - I don`t know NYC - I live in Sindh, in Pakistan. The albums I have are vinyl albums and I am not sure if these are released on CD.
Mercedes Sosa must be available even on CD, I think, because of her standing in Argentina as a national icon for her resistance to the ruling military junta who even jailed and then exiled her. The live rendition is when she returned to Argentina, and there she had the entire stadium on their feet, thousands pouring out their hearts in the roar of their voices as she sang, oh so hauntingly.
This particular version of Sibelius is the best I have heard of the Lemmenkainen Suite (and THE best work of Sibelius, in my humble opinion), Sibelius wrote the piece when he himself was dying of cancer, in the long months of winter in the far North of Finland, his own internal darkness matching the cold heaviness of the snow-laden skies outside, and then finding expression in the brooding mythological Norse legend of a black forest and river, of a sorceress who has enchanted a princess into a black swan and the prince who wages a battle against her ... you can hear the entire story in the orchestral pieces, down to the wild gallop through the wilderness, the loss he feels as he wanders alone, and the deeper, deeper grief of the swan/princess who is unable to express, unable to escape and unable to save him from dismemberment at the hands of the sorceress.
If you are willing to let your mind lose control to your heart ... :) ... then you might want to find el Lebrejano - Flamenco singing at its wildest! Again, there are certain of his performances that are just trancendental ... I have a live cassette recording of it.
Enjoy !

Wadera...
would you know any place in NYC where I could get those pieces you mentioned? thanx in advance!

plats8 #45
I`ve visited the musicindiaonline.com quite a bit in the past - others I visit fairly often are:
http://classical.indianmuseek.com (has a lot of links) and http://www.mydesimusic.com.
Just as an aside, in case you want to hear some shockingly powerful music from other parts of the world, try these:

Mercedes Sosa (from Argentina) - Her live rendition of ``Gracias A LA Vida`` (this version is the one to listen to, sung in front of 60,000+ in a packed Argentinian soccer stadium) - this will make your hair stand up on end - and that is no exaggeration.

``Lemmenkainen Suite`` by Jean Sibelius (from Finland) - the version to listen to is the one by the Helsinki Philharmonic, conducted by Okko Kamu, on the Deutsche Grammaphon label. This is Finnish mythology set to classical music, dark and powerful.

Banjaara #41,

Rashid Khan has prodigious talent, but his taalim has remained rather incomplete
due to the differences with his guru Nisar Hussein Khan. Apparently, Khan-saab
wanted Rashid to marry his grand daughter, but this chap fell in love with a Hindu
girl in Calcutta and settled there, annoying Khan-saab to no end. This limits Rashid`s
repertoire to a handful of ragas - but when he`s on, it is absolutely riveting. He has
also become a sort of a cultural icon in Calcutta these days, and I`m not sure that is
a good thing.

Did read the article on Annapurna Devi on unplugged. Her divorce with Ravi
Shankar and the reclusiveness that followed has been a source of some gossip,
mostly maligning Panditji. Have never heard any of her (very few) records, but
she must have been phenomenal. Her brother certainly is.

Wadera #44,

I have very little exposure to rock music, and have never really appreciated it.
Definitely haven`t heard enough to pass judgment on any of the bands. Perhaps
you could check out musicindiaonline.com to sample some of the musicians
mentioned here, and then seek out extended recordings.

hey guys!
just wanted to know where i could get the recording of Noor Jehan`s and Lata`s joint concert which took place in `82...
maybe anywhere in NYC?
any help would be greatly appreciated!
Z

plats8 #41
I`m glad I managed to convey some of my feelings about music and singers. I would like to know more of India`s truly great singers - I am one of the greatest lovers of music and don`t care where it comes from, as long as I feel it reach me. About Junoon - let me say only this: They do not have the years of a Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan behind them - only time will tell if they live up to the promise they showed in `Parvaaz``. That is the difference here. I will give you another analogy: When I first heard ``New Year`s Day`` in `83 or so, I was stunned. I hunted down the album and got it. My good friend and classmate thought they were a one hit wonder, but all I could feel was the passion in both the singing and the guitar. Over time U2 has become one of rock`s greatest. And that is the key here: over TIME. I sense and feel the greatness within Junoon, but I cannot predict they will realize that potential. For that reason I will agree they do not belong with Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan or Abida Parveen at this time - but I can tell you this: I`ve been in a few of their performances where they had us in `haal` - truly, truly memorable.

plats8# 41
[I`ve never been trained in classical music, but this I could almost feel in my bones.]

You would be surprised that not many lovers of classical music in this era are trained or educated to understand the nuances of the raaga and its composition, including my self
but it is that unknown factor that seems to hit you in the heart with a painful ecstacy or as you felt its encompassing grip over your bones, when an alaap soars to high heavens
invoking the blessings of Saraswati, that defines a lover of clasical music.I have heard very good comments bout Rashid Khan but have not heard him so far, maybe someday Insha
Allah. I have put up an article about Annapurna Devi at the `` Unplugged`` - literature and fine arts, you might enjoy it.

dost-mittar,
You are welcome. Labour day will meet .

rsridhar #37,

Thanks for mentioning SPICMACAY - well aware of it. It has done a superlative job
of increasing classical music awareness.

My appreciation of classical music has also come rather late, courtesy of a particular concert by Rashid Khan. He sang a bandish in Bhairavi - ``Kahiyo re prabhu`` ; would
strongly suggest dost-mittar and you and Banjaara to listen to it, if you haven`t already. I`ve never been trained in classical music, but this I could almost feel in my bones.

wadera #39,
I realise what you`re trying to say, and agree with much of it. Nusrat`s raspy voice is
almost transcendental - I completely concur. My point (which got lost in all this - my
own acerbic comments included) is that we DO have singers of such exceptional vocal quality in India today - you just have to look beyond Bollywood, which is what Pakistanis mostly get to sample. The Indian music experience is thankfully not defined by Bombay`s film industry, which has increasingly come to represent a beer commercial.

p.s: I am very reluctant to mention Junoon in the same sentence as Nusrat or Abida
Parveen.

Banjaara:
I really enjoyed that article by Prof. Najmi.
As I had said in the beginning, I do not like making comparisons between Lata and Nur Jehan. On my last trip, I went to several stores just to find some old songs of Nur Jehan. I think this obsession of comparing Lata and Nur Jehan seems to be unique to Pakistanis, in India people generally compare Lata with Asha. It is partly because Pakistani film music never became popular in India. So, younger Indians are almost totally unaware of Nur Jehan`s talents. Even the older ones know mostly her old songs.

But Prof. Najmi makes a valid point that Nur Jehan was more versatile than Lata. I do remember several happy songs by her (for example, aaj meray mun mein sakhi baansuri bajaye koyee, from Aan) but I dont think she ever sang any cabaret song. Even Asha has displayed quite a bit of versatility. With Umrao Jaan (Yeh kya jageh hai dosto, yeh kaun sa dayyaar hai) she proved she could do full justice to songs with pathos and poignancy.
Thanks again, for sharing that peace.

plats8:
The concert is on August 16. I`ll tell you how it went after that.

plats8 #33
I saw Noor Jehan sing classical pieces on two different concerts: One in 1970 in Lahore and another in Multan a little earlier. I believe the live recording of the Multan concert is available from Oriental Star. I wasn`t trying to say she was a better classical singer than this or that singer - merely that she had the talent for it - but her passion directed her elsewhere.
You are extrapolating my UK/USA analogy to well over the cliff`s edge - watch out! There is empty air below! The analogy points to the difference in singers (it had nothing to do with the film industry of India/Pakistan). It was an analogy - not a literal comparison.
Music appreciation can never be complete for anyone - not even for professional critics, because in the end we are limited by taste, however broad it may end up being. For me, there is only one purpose - NOT criteria, mind you- but `purpose`. And that purpose is realized only and only by my heart. My mind is seduced by words, verses, technical expertise, perfection of voice and harmonies - but it always takes second place to what occurs within my heart. There, Nusrat`s imperfect voice soars above all perfection, utterly submissive, absolutely powerful. There Abida Parveen and Pathana Khan and others like them reach for the Infinite King with heartbreaking simplicity, with no heroics and no trappings, but with a poignancy that is realized only by those who are giving. So too have Junoon performed beyond themselves - I was present in three such performances. Junoon finally arrived with their album `Parvaaz`, but we have to wait and see if they continue to let music be their Master.
I said it in my last post: bringing up classical music as the yardstick is meaningless because passion cannot be measured. It cannot be rebutted by comparing the quality of classical performers to ghazal singers, etc, because I am trying to put the light on the indescribable that takes place with certain singers but not others.

re:#31 by plats8
There is a popular organisation started by some IITans, called SPICMACAY that is involved in preserving and promoting classical music among young people in India. It has been quite popular in US and India.
http://www2.uiuc.edu/ro/spicmacay/
http://www.spicmacay.surat.8m.com/
Sridhar

re: Classical music in the South
My interest in Carnatic music started with the movie ``Shankarabharanam``. This was a bilingual Telugu/Tamil movie that i saw many years ago. S.P.B`s rendition of some difficult classical numbers was superb and made the classial music better appreciated by laymen like me. Then i heard M.S. Subbulaxmi and i got hooked. I still like to listen to old hindi songs but i think as one matures, one starts appreciating the finer aspects of classical music. Notes which would appear jarring to me many years ago appeared to be well rendered.
If some one wants to just get a feel of Carnatic music, i would recommend the songs from the movie ``Shankarabharanam``. As dost-mittar rightly pointed out, for those used to Ghazals and a different style of music, carnatic music may sound very different and many may not appreciate it.
Sridhar