Tolerating Sexuality

Leave pornography aside - India is becoming a Puritanical/Talibanist farce. In late 2003 in the southern city of Chennai the police arrested more than a hundred couples who were seeing each other in the ccity`s Anna Nagar park. No one did anything obscene - the park is barren for the most part and no privacy is available for anyone to indulge in anything intimate. All of the couples were adults. They were taken to police stations, fingerprinted like criminals and photographed. Some Tamil newspapers even carried pictures of these couples in what was a clear warning to them and their parents that they would be arrested if they were seen at the park again.

In May 2005, in Hyderabad, the police barged into a private birthday party at the residence of a Muslim family claiming that an obscene performance was taking place there. Members of the press who were at the party later said that nothing obscene had taken place. Indeed, it would have been difficult if not impossible to hold an ``obscene`` performance when several hundred guests, mostly whole families were present at a birthday party.

And Tamilnadu again - the Vice Chancellor of the state`s prestigious Anna University recently introduced a dress code for students, something that is ridiculous considering that there is nothing obscene that has ever been seen by me in my many visits to colleges in the state for more than 20 years. What was worse was that a boy was suspended by a Jain college for wearing a ``dark coloured shirt.`` For all the talk about freedom that India`s politicians bandy about, they are hard at work turning the country into a muttawa type tyranny. Indians need to wake up to this madness and get rid of the moral dictators who rule there.

Having the right to be sexual with who I want, when I want is as political as it is personal and as such I consider my sexuality as important as my politics. I take considerable political pleasure in the fact that I enjoy sex with men and that I am able to have sex for my own pleasure or any other reason whenever I want.

South Asian would be a lot more reasonable if there were no virgins.

very sad
That even sex has to be commercialized and packaged as art for some perverts.
Since when did banning porngraphy become a denial of sex as a basic human right.

cheers
raza

Very sad.

Sex is a basic human right. Why do countries in the East deny it?

if ur not being shoved in one`s face logic is used....then tomm someone could use the same argument for cocaine........and other drugs....would you agree with that ? so it would be ok to put cocaine and other drugs on your local shelves.....no one would be forcing you to buy them would they ?
as for the other point you mentioned....i was saying that like the institution of marriage has been destroyed by the sexual revolution and liberation....the same thing could be done to non adults through pornography.........that is corrupt their immature minds.......
it was an analogy.....u r a bit slow to get things rnt u ?
try a bit more next time
cheers
raza

razzz #30

This is getting mighty irritating - this periodic recycling of your bounty of illogic.
Furthermore, your arguments keep changing (if you wish, I could delineate the
changes for you), and lately you`ve indulged in garden variety condescension.
Frightfully boring, if I may say so.

Just because you think something has questionable artistic merit or is obscene,
does not make it ban-worthy. Other adults should have access to what they
consider entertainment, as long as it doesn`t involve active exploitation. The
situation, however, changes when it violates your private space. Thus,
committing sexual acts on the streets is illegal (indecent exposure can be a
source of public hazard), but having a video on a store-shelf isn`t.

Where exactly is imposition coming in ? Nobody`s forcing you to watch these
videos. There is a difference between having access to something, and it being
shoved in my face. In principle, I could argue that a Hindu religious procession
with loud music or a Muharram procession invades my private life much more
than a porn video does.

Pornography has a marginal role, at best, in shaping social values. At some
point you mentioned marriages falling apart - I assure you that this particular
``civilizational crisis`` was not brought about by porn videos.

the issue becomes a public domain when it appears in a video shelve in your near store and not just an issue among two consenting adults...........then it becomes an externality being imposed by THOSE two consenting adults on the society......very easy thing to comprehend......put some effort into comprehending it................u might get it.!!!!!!!!!

razzz #28

I had made my feelings abundantly clear in my first post - let
me cut and paste it here.

``What I think about prostitution or pornography matters little here.
The question is whether the person involved in it thinks it violates
his/her self esteem. If not, then my/your opinion shouldn`t matter -
it`s strictly between consenting adults.``

why should i be answering your QUESTIONS....i think we interact on this site to discuss issues which are presented in various articles.......not debate on where did someone all important said something......why dont u for once...tell me whats YOUR point of view on this issue.....? rather then ask me questions about silly things.

razzz #26

Let me ask you this one more time. Since you have accused me of trying
to promote pornography as a ``creative exercise``, would you please point out
where I`ve done so ?

Could you also please tell me which part of your ``argument`` am I failing to
comprehend - to support your claim that I have a comprehension problem.

i really think chowk should have some option which allows one to see whether a particular member has a mental handicap cz you seem to have one really big comprehnsion problem. Anyway i have said what i wanted to, why dont you tell me why pornography should be legalized.....apart from questioning things you havent made one argument so far as to why should pornography be legalized.....care to bless us with ur infinite wisdom...for once instead of countless meaning less questions.
raza

razzz #24

This debate is getting more interesting with every post of yours.

I guess I didn`t comprehend the deep impact of pornography on society and the
pornographers devious social agenda - you`ve being unnaturally insightful here.
I`m sure people in this profession would be delighted to hear that they`ve
successfully demolished the institution of marriage single-handedly; it is a major
achievement.

A couple of questions -

1) Please find a post of mine (there are only 4 in this thread) where I claim that pornography is high art or an especially creative enterprise (since you claim that
I`ve done so) ?

2) If pornography is degrading to its participants because it is done for money
alone (and not pleasure, I assume), would it be less degrading if there is no exchange
of money or an exchange of money and pleasure ?

By the way, you say ``i just wanted to add another argument to make my point`` -
which argument would that be ?

i still stick to my viewpoint about pornography being degrading to the participants because its done for MONEY ALONE....i just wanted to add another argument to make my point....because how can ppl with perverse values be convinced that pornography is not an ART !!!!.....just tell me where the creativity lies in pornography..??......i mean creativity for normal people...not ppl with perverse values...whom u seem to sympathize with a lot....share anything do ya ?........and you expect parents in a society where pornography is acceptable as an art form to monitor their kids ? ...u must be kidding.......the fact is that making pornography legal like this....would only corrode the fabric of society even more.......the institution of marriage has already been destroyed....with countles single mothers raising children themselves and ending up as pros because of that and now.....u want to do away with whatever is left of the society as well..........

raza

razzz #21,

You surely have an interesting way of debating - moving the goalposts whenever
it is inconvenient. Your initial objection was about porn being degrading to the
participants, particularly when there is exchange of money. After a couple of
iterations, porn has become offensive because the target audience might include
children.

I do not see a huge effort to make pornography lucrative to children in the
public domain - yes, child porn exists, but it is illegal because of issues of
exploitation. Monitoring children is something their parents should do ; not
the government, because once they are in, govts are reluctant to step out.
It should be a truism by now that freedom of expression is particularly relevant
for expression that you don`t approve of.

I do not think that the existence of pornography or prostitution has defined
the evolution of society in any serious manner. They do provide easy targets
for self-righteous people, though.

``Butch, Butch Bush!
By MAUREEN DOWD

WASHINGTON

Let`s get it straight. The president and the pope aren`t riding the new gay wave.

``I believe a marriage is between a man and a woman,`` said President Bush last week. ``And I think we ought to codify that one way or the other. And we`ve got lawyers looking at the best way to do that.`` Trying to add a tolerant note to an intolerant policy, he allowed that he was ``mindful that we`re all sinners.``

Last time I checked, we had separation of church and state, so I don`t know why the president is talking about sin...... (NYT)

---

well Maureen -- the Butch Bush is ``talking about (his) sin`` -- because the Bitch (sorry for the typo) Bush IS -- a born-again SINNER -- not the gays -- despite his (how inclusive!!) --``WE``... gays are not part of the ``We``...

the Gays have committed NO SIN -- the President of the United States has committed a Sinster SIN...

anybody who in 2003 attacks a sovereign country unprovked -- occupies and brutalizes its people -- uproots their daily life -- bringing upon them so much death and destruction and misery -- especially to a people that did no harm to his country and his people...

a president who humiliates, degrades and debases on a daily basis -- a proud ancient far away land and its people -- tramples with his Texas boots upon their dignity, their human rights, their culture on public TV -- every hour...every day --

a country and a people that this SINNER son of a bush knows nothing about -- can`t even spell correctly

a president -- who is getting the precious sons, daughters, husbands, and sisters of American families KILLED everyday -- in a godforsaken desert -- FOR NOTHING --

without remorse without guilt -- does not even utter a word of sympathy or express sorrow to the families...

is a SINNER -- who will burn in the Hell of ignonimity -- till eternity --

NOT the GAYS -- they`re headed straight for the heavens..

on a positive note nonetheless -- good to hear a Liar and a Sinner US President -- being truthful once about himself -- for a change..

the problem is not the freedom of two persons doing something between themselves which is under debate over here, the problem is that they film it and put it on a public place where it is accessible to non adults and is thus able to corrupt the mind of the immature and disorient them. No one is stopping them from doing it in the privacy of their private life. They can make as many home videos as they want but when they put it on a public forum for a commercial purpose it becomes a little debatable. For example you could extend this theory to cocaine or hash too. That is if an individual wants to use it why does the government put a ban on its sale. Its because the individual is not always capable of making the right choices for himself. So the government has to step in. And i dont need a respone by plats18 cz i know its beyond your capability. Putting a wager does not make your point. The principle of free markets and freedom does not always go hand in hand with public welfare because as individuals we extend some externalities on the society we live in and in order to contribute to the society in a better UNSELFISH way which you dont seem capable of one has to observe some rules.