The Vagina Monologues

Stuka #175

I think both you and I have misunderstood the social role of VM here. It is in essence women discussing their sexuality with other women, with perhaps some feminist undertones. Men are, by and large, irrelevant here.

Now, it has happened that such discourses morph into a consciousness relevant for
broader society, but that is not the stated aim of VM. Nor does it claim to be a catalyst
for social change, if I understand Saminasha/Khadija correctly.

Saminasha #172

``Research doesnt seem to be for everyone....but in the academic world it is crucial. Last semester I studied for example, what ``aesthetic beauty`` in literature is, what purposes it serves.....``

About research not being for everyone, you may be correct. However, my point stands that any research in this area is necessarily non-quantitative - you cannot attach an objective measure to the impact of narratives. That doesn`t devalue the narrative or the work on it.....anyway, I`ll stop making myself redundant here.

I suppose it was unclear to me that VM is supposed to be a discussion of female
sexuality exclusively amongst women. In that case, my thoughts on it are irrelevant.

re: 185

``Women are victims of violence, not because of their vagina``

Why are an alarming number of women victims of violence then?

#174 khatam-shud

Having grown up with boys and having been cloistered with men, i think i know what i`m talking about.
The whole thing sounds like a reaction to some perceived denigration/insult, victimization. Women are victims of violence, not because of their vagina. If all you are is a body attached to a vagina, that`s very sad.

Khatam Shud:

``Then it does not matter what men think of it.``
thank you! thank you! thank you for finally understanding! ``

Well, why didn`t you come out and say it upfront??

Roohi:

``However it is not just a subset of feminists but society at large that seems to have this attitude. Most Moms I know that made this choice have had the same experience ... from former employers and co-workers - ``

I completely agree with you. I only pointed out feminists because I would expect them to be more understanding. That`s my issue with feminism, is it feminist empowerment based on masculine agendas or is it empowerment of feminity itself. It cannot be both all the time because biology and inherent gender differences do interefere.

In my case it is personal. My mom gave up her job because my dad kept getting posted from one place to another. The fact remains she did have a career and voluntarily chose to forsake it. Who is grateful for that? My father? No. Me and my brother who nver ever had an empty home to come back to. To be honest, speaking from the perspective of the child, I was glad that it was my mom who stayed home rather than my dad. This is the way I feel and I do not care if it is politically incorrect.

Talking of Parathas, moulds is the way to go. Just flatten one peice of dough and cut out paranthas in the shape of airplanes, bears etc. Waisey, are you still in Boston? I have moved to DC and miss Boston terribly.

Roohi:

``My sister acted with Amir Raza Husain`s Stagedoor right out of college and the audience is really mostly upper class``

Just read this. My second cousin is married to him. I had the pleasure of meeting both of them when I was in India. In fact I was trying to get their help in getting into the Welcomgroup Management Trainee program. I ended up coming to the states. But they were a really cool couple and Ii really enjoyed the opportunity to meet them. This was in early 1995 when Aamir Rraza Hhussain was planning the theatrical production of the Ramayana.

re roohi #177:

``I think the women who can afford the tickets and be free to go to such a show are already privileged to some extent.``

I bet some of the chaueffers and maids employed by these women are having their own eh...entertainment on the backseats of the air-conditioned limousines parked outside..............while they wait to be liberated by the tsunami that is the Vagina Monologues.....

Feminists and mullahs are the only two speceis that need sharia law...literally!!

later
-sac

Khadija & Samina,

Have you read ``Nectar in a Sieve`` by Kamala Markandaya ? It was in my English coursework in school or Uni in India can`t remember which. I think you`ll really like it ...

Get it here ...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0785758712/ref=ase_gobk-133915-20/002-8331646-8029613?v=glance&s=books

Stuka

These feminists also have deep rooted contempt for women who CHOOSE to adopt the role of a care giver. An example was Hillary Clinton`s remark ``I could have stayed home and baked cookies`` which reflected contempt for those that do.

---

Bikul Sahi !! However it is not just a subset of feminists but society at large that seems to have this attitude. Most Moms I know that made this choice have had the same experience ... from former employers and co-workers - I belong to a group called ``Mothers and More`` formally known as (I kid you not) Formally Employed Moms At The Leading Edge or FEMALE ... who are people who did have careers and jobs but decided to stay at home anyway - most are sequencing (taking an extended break from work while the kids are really small) and intend to go back to work. Anyway just a piece of trivia from the twilight zone of stay-at-home-hood.

Why ? Because that remark always rankled ... ignorance on display ... try baking cookies with a couple of kids trying to ``help`` Hillary you traitor !!! My nutcases even want to use cookie cutters on Paranthas which results in the most spectacular mess you can imagine in my kitchen - now I`ve laid down the law that they can only have ``triangle`` paranthas or eat grass.

Roohi,

Thanks for the info!

In Pakistan there are ngos who have been travelling to rural areas to show videos about family planning. These viewing events are part of a program of reaching women who are ignored by mainstream govt. policies. I have read that contraception is also distributed to women who are interested in using birth control. How can we decide what the needs of and what`s ``appropriate`` for sectors of women with whom we have little interaction with? How does the argument of ``appropriateness`` address the isolation of these women to not only medical treatments-but what they will find useful intellectually? How can we presume to make these decisions?

If a person has the daily crises of food, income, shelter-does that automatically nullify that person`s creative, intellectual, discursive capabilities? It means, yes, that this person will have less to very little time to spend on writing, performances, etc. But it doesnt and should`nt preclude them from these discourses.

Another question: How did the women of Bosnia and Afghanistan receive the VMs? There are several narratives of women who have experienced male violence towards their bodies. What were the attitudes of these Eastern and Muslim women towards the VM?

Finally, I do hope you get a chance at seeing the VMs. I am pretty sure your perspective on it would change.

Samina - you can find some examples of these type of (hindi belt) folk songs at www.beatofindia.com ... they even have a nakta but it`s not typical (watered down). Punjab has it`s own, like temporal said gidda songs ... don`t they have them in Pakistan (or is Sameer from Pakistani Punjab ... ?). I had many many Punjabi friends in Delhi and of course they had gidda at all the weddings ladies sangeet ... didn`t hear anything too scandalous though. Rajasthan & Haryana have Ghoomar (you guys have heard of ``Pallu Latke`` right ?).

As far as the VM Play ... I think the women who can afford the tickets and be free to go to such a show are already privileged to some extent. My sister acted with Amir Raza Husain`s Stagedoor right out of college and the audience is really mostly upper class. To really make a difference this material has to be available more widely and I don`t think it`s appropriate for a wide desi audience anyway ... I haven`t seen it so maybe I`m wrong. Anyway I really think women and men bond and interact differently ... can you imagine a girl version of The Man Show ?

Wider audience .... there was a theatre group in India that I saw perform at Shri Ram Center of Arts in Delhi that was headed up by the late Safdar Hashmi ... they were folk, they were great and they used to perform street theatre free of charge to raise awareness of social issues. I still remember ``Motu Ram Ka Satyagraha`` that they did which was awesome and hilarious with a great performance by Safdar`s wife Malaysree who played a tawaif. Safdar Hashmi was badly beaten by Youth Congress hoodlums at one of these street performances and died ... this was a long time ago. I think they`re still around though. Street plays are really popular in Bengal too, they tend to have leftist leanings usually.

You know what would be great is an Indian Dr. Ruth !!!!! From one of your postings Indian Men are having too much anxiety ... and that`s no good for the women is it ?

(at www.beatofindia.com)
Wedding related songs
Banna -Sung during the wedding of a boy
Bidai -Sung at the time of bride`s departure after the wedding
Gari -A taunt for the `samadhi` or `in-law`, traditionally sung as part of a wedding.
Ghodi -Sung at the time the groom climbs the horse to go to the bride`s house for the wedding.
Haldi -Songs sung during the `Haldi` ceremony at a wedding.
Kohbar -(Bhojpuri) Songs sung when the newly married couple reaches the Kohbar, the wedding suite.
Latka-Nakta -(Awadhi) Usully sung during weddings but without any clear cut or specific content. ***Oh they know what the content is!!**
Sohag -Sung at the time the bride seeks the blessing of elders for a happy married life.
Tilak -Sung just before the departure of the groom for the wedding, while the `Tilak` is performed.
Tona -Protecting the bride or the groom from any evil eye.
Phaag -(Rajasthani) Sung during weddings in some areas of Rajasthan.
Var Khojai -Songs describing the kind of groom the girl wants her father to find for her.

Child birth songs
Sohar -Celebrating the birth of a child.
Badhai -Sung at the birth of a son

Sung while working
Ropni -Sung usually by women while they plant rice in the fields.
Jantsar -Sung by women while they grind flour with a `chakki`; grinding stone.
Hudkiabaul -(Kumaoni) Sung while working as a group in a field.
Sohni -Describing the sorrow of a woman - vis-à-vis her husband`s home.

Will someone explain this entire debate to Stuka please?

Thanks.

stuka:
``But don`t try and make it about raisng consciousness. Unless ofcourse it is directed at women doing it for themselves and themselves alone. Then it does not matter what men think of it.``
thank you! thank you! thank you for finally understanding!

soysauce: ``Finally, to (heterosexual) men of proper age, the word cunt is not ``dirty``, it`s kinky & exciting. But penis or any of its synonyms aren`t.``
Oh yeah! id like to refer you to a certain song featured in ``the Sweetest Thing``.
and-if-it-dont-apply-to-you-dont-say-it-dont-apply-to-no-one!

`` the latest performance of the ``Penis Monologues`` is indicated in yesterday`s newspapers where in Bangladesh, a nine year old bride was disfigured with acid by her groom. ``

And to counter that, instead of spending time on catalyzing change in the form of law and order, implementation of gender equality etc. the feminists of South Asia come up with a desi rendition of the Vagina Monologues.

Simply Brilliant.

Mantolives,

Unfortunately the latest performance of the ``Penis Monologues`` is indicated in yesterday`s newspapers where in Bangladesh, a nine year old bride was disfigured with acid by her groom.